The maltodextrin is convenient and maybe a leftover from initial attempts to cobble together a base foundation of powder based nutrition staple (not supplement)to get me through chemo-radiation where I know most lose big poundage and most end up on a PEG which I am trying to avoid at all cost.

Also, it was a fast and easy way to get calories added to the mix but with agave and the protein maybe I can cut the maltodextrin back and still pack a decent caloric punch. Also, as you state agave has better GI properties so that would help even more if I use the daily sipping liquid.

So far week 5 of 7 and lost less than 10 pounds from peak weight.

The sipping thing is an idea to combine a way to get sufficient calories and nutrition down the gullet and also meet the daily hydration requirement. Drinking plain water is slightly painful and something with some coating effect is much smoother going down.

I forgot to include this great link I tripped across; something that I have been looking for to answer all those sugar/complex carb questions.
http://www.corn.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/NSFC2006.pdf

My son is into power building so much of what I have cobbled together is scoops of stuff he has but so much of those products have many additives I want to go simple.

Having said that, I forgot to add BCAA and other essential amino acids that are usually added to the premixed power builder powders. Any suggestions on those or just add some amino acid supplement powder to the mix?

don

Paul,

Actually it isn't the protein in a high protein diet that puts stress on the organs, it's the keytones. When your body doesn't have sufficient glucose for energy it will break down adipose tissue (fat) into keytones for energy and they are harder on the engine to run on so to speak.

"Ketogenic" diets are those that drastically reduce carbs in the system while increasing the percentage of dietary fats and proteins. If you made sure your body has enough carbs to process an increase of protein, you run just fine really.

Example: your macro nutrient breakdown was 40% protein, 30% fats, 30% carbs, your body would have plenty of carbs to process protein, and enough fat content for optimal hormone production.

Dr. Layne Norton, PhD out of the University of Illinois in Nutritional Science actually disagrees with the amount of protein your body can process at any one time too, which between 20-30gs has been the long standing rule of thumb.

Here's his paper on it in 2009 before he got his PhD.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

Ed,

Maltrodextrine and Dextros are two simple carbs used in weight training to unbalance blood sugar to promote hunger. Weight lifters will use it after their workout to help make them hungry to eat soon after a workout where they were sucking on a protein shake 2 hours before and then during their workout.

Weight lifters live in a world of very high protein intake, which retards hunger, this is a way to get around that. Consequently it also eases nausea as the body won't feel nauseated when hungry. Great tip for those going through treatment, but only use it in moderation due to the need for mostly stable blood sugar needed for protein synthesis.

Don,

I would have to defer to Eric. I get my amino acids from quinoa and looking at jumping to kamut. I would not suggest you even try swallowing either of those. I don't think anything good would come out of that.

As far as sipping I would consider what Cheryl said about Stevia instead of maltodextrin. You would get the sweetener plus phytonutrients. The down side is you would have to find more calories. Have you considered any nut butters? Almond butter would be a good one. Some good fat, protein and calories.

I also use Green Stuff. Phytonutrients, veggies, spirulina, chlorella, etc. It has a moderate level or ORAC units @ 10,000/serving. I have read several articles over the years suggesting antioxidants should be avoided during chemo and radiation as high levels may interfere with both.

I personally get my blood checked every 2-3 months and adjust my diet to address any abnormalities. I believe our bodies respond better to nutrition from foods. Just my opinion and certainly understandable why that doesn't workf for everyone especially with compromised swallowing.

I also think corn was used to trick the White Man by the Native Americans. No matter what the industry says, HFCS is the single worst thing ever introduced into food. Studies are just showing how bad it is. It changes the brain chemistry and creates more hunger or craving for more sugar and as Eric pointed out above, sugar does not help much of anything and rather harms us in many ways.

Ed

Here's one of my shake recipe's that I'll share as I'm still writing up my nutrition post I promised David.

1 scoop 100% Whey protein powder (I prefer just plain organic, but any will do)
1 cup 100% Whole Grain Oatmeal
1cup blueberries
2 tblspoons Flaxseed Meal
Water to desired consistency

583 calories, 41.07g of protein, 82.01g of carbs, 13.48gs of fat

You can switch the flaxseed with Peanut Butter and get

713 calories, 45g protein, 84g carbs, 25g fats which is one of my favorites.

I put this in my Vitamix(which is a must for those of us on liquid diets due to how finely it will blend the ingredients) and go to town. I also usually put 1.5 cups of organic baby spinach in the above shakes to get my greens.

Enjoy

[quote=EricS]Ed,

Maltrodextrine and Dextros are two simple carbs used in weight training to unbalance blood sugar to promote hunger. Weight lifters will use it after their workout to help make them hungry to eat soon after a workout where they were sucking on a protein shake 2 hours before and then during their workout.

Weight lifters live in a world of very high protein intake, which retards hunger, this is a way to get around that. Consequently it also eases nausea as the body won't feel nauseated when hungry. Great tip for those going through treatment, but only use it in moderation due to the need for mostly stable blood sugar needed for protein synthesis. [/quote]

Maltodextrin although a simple carb in nature is actually considered a complex carb just because of the high glycemic index at about twice refined sugar. You mention nausea and most people I know that use maltodextrin complain of nausea, constipation or diarrhea. My experience has been lack of hunger and nausea from too much protein. I sometimes forget how much protein I am eating vs drinking.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand more about my hunger gaps after protein. I suspected that was going on but wasn't sure till I saw it in your post...correctly spelled I might add.

Ed

Ed, I just assumed due to their ridiculous GI rating that they were a simple carb. My experience is just with maltrodextrine and it's made me hungry every time within about an hour of working out.

I get over 1g/lb of bodyweight in protein now, yesterday I logged 212g's total of protein so trust me I understand the nausea and hunger issues associated with it. Oy.

I actually get tired of eating and I'm on a calorie restricted plan right now to cut my bodyfat to under 10%, I'm around 11% now, looking for 8.5.

[quote=EricS]Here's one of my shake recipe's that I'll share as I'm still writing up my nutrition post I promised David.

1 scoop 100% Whey protein powder (I prefer just plain organic, but any will do)
1 cup 100% Whole Grain Oatmeal
1cup blueberries
2 tblspoons Flaxseed Meal
Water to desired consistency

583 calories, 41.07g of protein, 82.01g of carbs, 13.48gs of fat

You can switch the flaxseed with Peanut Butter and get

713 calories, 45g protein, 84g carbs, 25g fats which is one of my favorites.

I put this in my Vitamix(which is a must for those of us on liquid diets due to how finely it will blend the ingredients) and go to town. I also usually put 1.5 cups of organic baby spinach in the above shakes to get my greens.

Enjoy [/quote]

LOL...you add agave nectar and that's pretty much my breakfast. I use organic Bob's Red Mill thick cut oats with cinnamon for many reasons like antifungal for thrush, keeps blood sugar in check, natural blood thinner and a few others and I add ginger to help regulate body temp. My metabolism is so whacked right now and if I walk a mile before breakfast vs eating first, I can lose up to 2 lbs for the day. If my weight slips I make sure and eat as soon as I get up. I eat every 2-4 hrs if I can.

Eric,

Your next mission should you choose to accept it:

Nutritionally building muscle after atrophy. I can get some to refire but it doesn't last. If I skip 5-7 days working some refired muscles they totally atrophy. The only things I haven't tried are creatine and steroids. I'm leaning toward trying them both if I can't gain any more bulk. O.o

Ed,

I'm actually doing just that as I'm rehabing the paralyzed right half of my face as I'm finally regaining motor function after a nerve graft . Where I'm cutting weight right now for body fat percentage when I'm done in the next few weeks I'll switch up my diet to start to build muscle where I'm sure I'll see it in my face. That's the theory anyway.

Building muscle I would go with the 40% protein, 30-30 split between carbs and fats mentioned above as it really promotes the anabolic pathways to rebuilding and gains, in my "humble" opinion.

I would watch the dosages of ginger and cinnamon (I take both as well) as they are both blood thinners