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Pete D #86481 12-21-2008 07:29 AM
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I was told I could/should take a multi vit a day but like everything else I was told I ignored. lol I was one bad patient.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
Pete D #86489 12-21-2008 10:09 AM
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Pete
I doubt that antioxidants promote cancer growth at least not directly. (please send me the link to the article)

What is likely the issue here is this. Large amounts of antioxidants interfere with treatment (radiation/chemo). The idea with some chemo and radiation is to damage the crap out of your DNA and if the cells are replicating rapidly they cannot keep up with the repair and decide to die. Antioxidants protect cellular components. The concern is that large amounts of antioxidants may also protect cancer cells from damage. Therefore you do not use AO during therapy but you can (should) take them afterwards.

M




Partial glossectomy (25%) anterior tongue. 4/6/07/. IMRT start @5/24/07 (3x) Erbitux start/end@ 5/24/07. IMRT wider field (30x) start 6/5/07. Weekly cisplatin (2x30mg/m2), then weekly carbo- (5x180mg/m2). End of Tx 19 July 07.
Markus #86496 12-21-2008 01:16 PM
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Markus, a local Seattle TV station did a very recent show on cancer stuf; I'm almost certain I read the antioxidant info on their site, but can't find it again <very frustrated>.

Here's one from OCF archives stating "Worse, some research suggests that antioxidants may actually feed cancers, protecting the very cancer cells patients are trying to attack."

http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=1119

Here's another from OCF archives on AOs raising risk of cancer recurrence:

http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=946

Here's an article going both ways:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/antioxidants.htm

Here's one from the local station stating the hops in beer is good against cancer (But not the alcohol, of course):

http://www.king5.com/health/cancer/stories//NW_121908HEK_cancer_breakthroughs_beer_SW.6cd9aa11.html

And another saying caffeine is good against skin cancer:

http://www.king5.com/health/cancer/...er_breakthroughs_coffee_SW.6ca3b0c0.html



Age 67 1/2
Ventral Tongue SCC T2N0M0G1 10/05
Anterior Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 6/08
Base of Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 12/08
Three partial glossectomy (10/05,11/05,6/08), PEG, 37 XRT 66.6 Gy 1/06
Neck dissection, trach, PEG & forearm free flap (6/08)
Total glossectomy, trach, PEG & thigh free flap (12/08)
On August 21, 2010 at 9:20 am, Pete went off to play with the ratties in the sky.
Pete D #86499 12-21-2008 01:41 PM
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During RT you want to cells to be sensitive to damage, especially (ideally only) the cancer cells. So antioxidants are not recommended at that time.
The fact that cancer cells are likely to use vitamin C is NOT surprising they are metabolically more active so you would expect that actually. I have a big problem with treatment of cancer cells in vitro (Petri dish). To put is bluntly this is very tricky to interpret at best and in my opinion mostly BS. Point in case, you can microwave you petri dish and kill all cancer cells and voila your cancer is cured, hardly applicable to an organism! Hell, with a fine enough needle and a microscope you could physically kill the cancer cells in a Petri dish.
After the RT treatment you are presumably cancer free and you want antioxidants to prevent unwanted DNA damage and help the immune system. So the situation is different. However there are a lot of different antioxidants that have different effects.

M







Partial glossectomy (25%) anterior tongue. 4/6/07/. IMRT start @5/24/07 (3x) Erbitux start/end@ 5/24/07. IMRT wider field (30x) start 6/5/07. Weekly cisplatin (2x30mg/m2), then weekly carbo- (5x180mg/m2). End of Tx 19 July 07.
Markus #86503 12-21-2008 04:25 PM
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Agreed -- The thing that stuck out the most in the article I read and now can't find again was that the AO supplements were potentially harmful during radiation but getting them from the various fruits didn't seem to be -- I took the same route and didn't use anything -- Of course, during radiation, and for some time thereafter, I wasn't exactly hankering for things that needed to be chewed and swallowed!


Age 67 1/2
Ventral Tongue SCC T2N0M0G1 10/05
Anterior Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 6/08
Base of Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 12/08
Three partial glossectomy (10/05,11/05,6/08), PEG, 37 XRT 66.6 Gy 1/06
Neck dissection, trach, PEG & forearm free flap (6/08)
Total glossectomy, trach, PEG & thigh free flap (12/08)
On August 21, 2010 at 9:20 am, Pete went off to play with the ratties in the sky.
Pete D #86523 12-22-2008 06:39 AM
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Excuse me but I felt like I was microwaved to a near death state during my Tx. lol I often compare our radiation therapy to being in a microwave to newbies to explain that's why we suffer so much after the Rad Txs stop, i.e. we continue to cook just like meat in a microwave when it's turned off. Now granted I'm not as technical as Markus (he's one of the most technical on this site) but that's my CPA interpretation.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #86541 12-22-2008 02:35 PM
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Yep, when people ask me how was it going through txs, I tell them picture yourself getting cooked from the inside out. Most don't understand how hard it can be and it's not easy painting a picture. I actually had one person tell me I was acting because I didn't want to go back to work and that I was milking the system...blah..blah..blah...I did 7 weeks and spent 9 or 10 days in the hospital loosing over 40 pounds through tx...one more week and I felt like I was going to literally die.

I was told to take one multi-vitamin a day and stay away from all AO's...I stayed away from everything except my liquids. Most of those liquid drinks like Ensure, Boost and VHC have so many vitamins that a multi would just be redundant.


7-16-08 age 37@Dx, T3N0M0 SCC 4.778cm tumor, left side of oral tongue, non smoker, casual drinker, I am the 4th in my family to have H&N cancer
8-13-08 left neck dissection and 40% of tongue removed, submandibular salivary gland & 14 nodes clean, no chemo, IMRTx35
11-4-08 Recovering & feeling better
Ray1971 #86542 12-22-2008 02:43 PM
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Of course now I would assume the docs would not advocate taking a multi vit or any vits for that matter other than what we get from our diet since vits in a pill form don't seem to have any benefit and may even be detrimental to those taking them. OK so next ice cream will be bad for you.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #86560 12-22-2008 06:28 PM
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I use the microwave analogy to explain the radiation and also the sunburn analogy (coming out of the sun doesn't stop the burn from feeling worse!).

I personally don't buy into the rationale that ONLY natural vits are good; granted, there may be a few vits that are ineffective or less effective when taken "out of context" because they need something else to work properly, but not all will be that way.

And, one must factor in that some people have an almost religious faith in diets, vitamins, etc. that goes beyond the chemistry.


Age 67 1/2
Ventral Tongue SCC T2N0M0G1 10/05
Anterior Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 6/08
Base of Tongue SCC T2N0M0G2 12/08
Three partial glossectomy (10/05,11/05,6/08), PEG, 37 XRT 66.6 Gy 1/06
Neck dissection, trach, PEG & forearm free flap (6/08)
Total glossectomy, trach, PEG & thigh free flap (12/08)
On August 21, 2010 at 9:20 am, Pete went off to play with the ratties in the sky.
Pete D #86562 12-22-2008 06:34 PM
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This topic was on the national news not long ago. I take Centrum Silver and the Drs say to keep taking them. Hell, they have been part of my morning my routine for as long as I can remember. Maybe that's why I don't look near my age but have a lot of health problems. LOL One never knows does one?


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
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