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Mark Offline OP
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This Article appears in the latest issue of Scientific American.

web page

I do not necessarily agree with the author on all points but I believe it is worth reading and disscussing here.

Given that the author was not the patient I wonder about his final paragraph:

"Medicine is miraculous, but in the end, life ultimately turns on the love of the people who matter most. It is for those relationships, especially, that we should apply the ancient medical principle Primum non nocere-- first, do no harm."

At face value that oft quoted principle gets distorted a bit when we think about radiation and chemotherapy. Perhaps "do mostly no harm" is more correct. smile

I welcome your thoughts.


Mark, 21 Year survivor, SCC right tonsil, 3 nodes positive, one with extra-capsular spread. I never asked what stage (would have scared me anyway) Right side tonsillectomy, radical neck dissection right side, maximum radiation to both sides, no chemo, no PEG, age 40 when diagnosed.
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o.k., I read it and took it with a grain of salt. I think alot of people turn to alternative treatments because they have crappy docs. I for one do not have a great love for Western Medicine. All our current docs are from India and the Middle East, I find them more kind, considerate and caring than American docs, who need educated in treating patients like people as opposed to disease. i think "first cause no harm" sort of has to be considered what is the greater good for the patient. If there are no western medical options left, I for one would not hesitate to try other alternatives, if I felt as a nurse that they would cause no harm. The mind is a powerful weapon, and belief in a treatment does work at times.....case in point, I had a horrid sore throat when Frank was in Boston, started taking what I thought was cipro, cured me in 3 days, found out later they were multivits in the cipro bottle, but i believed they would work and they did..........I certainly know we need to be careful with the alternative stuff and the quacks out there, but I think the more the alternatives are studied the more help they may be..........I`m not really sure that MD`s are the one`s to study them unless they do so with an open mind. Dee

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I liked the article, and it makes some good points. As a traditional medicine person, the one that struck a cord with me was that a lot of what is sold has no standards which it must meet. These markets are largely uncontrolled by anyone, and the claims and results are also left up to the descresion of the company that sells the product. I find this a questionable situation. Given the huge lobby the alternative market has, they have been able to keep the FDA at bay, but this is all changing, and we will see stricter guidelines in the very near future. Many herbal products do not even meet the contents printed on the label in a recent study, and contain other items not even listed. One recent news article only a week ago found Rx drugs in some herbal, medications


Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
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Living in the part of the world I do, seems that most here depend on what we would call alternative therapies. For example, the drugstore across the street from my apartment not only carries some traditional western medicines, (no prescription necessary for drugs such as cipro, amoxicillin), to all manner of dried critters and herbs that would be necessary to cure what ails you. Write down what you are want as far as regular medicine, the druggist may or may not understand what you are looking for. Go in with a description of symptoms, and the druggist will mix up a batch of critter, herbs and what ever to "cure" what you have. Very common to see him in consultation, sitting around a table in the middle of the store, working with the customers on their remedies.

But, do they sell a real cure, a hope of a cure, or a placebo.

My wife insists they are selling a cure. At least once a week I get soup that has stuff from the drugstore across the street, some sort of mushroom concoction that doesn't taste too bad. I'm not on any medications, so I don't worry much about any interactions. It does seem to give me an energy boost, and makes her happy, so I go ahead and eat.

Both my wife and co-workers have given me various sorts of herbal pills to take to ward off the cancer returning. Going the "it can't hurt" route, I go ahead and take the stuff, (after investigating what it is) and make them happy. Again, I'm not on any medications, so there's no interaction that I'm aware of.

I think what some of these alternatives hold out to patients is "hope." When I was dealing with my first wife's battle with cancer I was in a support group for caregivers, and the rage then was shark cartilage. Several in the group were doing that therapy and understood that it may be quackery, but it gave them hope. My wife holds to hope that the stuff she gives me will prolong my life, and I guess I can't take that away from her. If I don't take the herbal stuff, the cancer comes back, then she'll say I'm to blame for not taking my medicine.

But then, the Chinese get along quite well on their traditional medicine, average life expectancy is like 72.5 years. And, they've been doing this herbal medicine thing for hundereds of years. If you saw some of the living conditions, you would be surprised anyone lives that long. And a few years ago back, who would have known that the extract of a certain "taxus yew" plant would be a very effective cancer drug (taxol).

There's a lot of quackery going on, selling "hope" not a cure, but I think maybe western medicine doesn't know as much as it thinks it does. Thing is, how do we know the "Quack" from the "duck"
Bob


SCC Tongue, stage IV diagnosed Sept, 2002, 1st radical neck dissection left side in Sept, followed by RAD/Chemo. Discovered spread to right side nodes March 2003, second radical neck dissection April, followed by more RAD/Chemo.
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I just want to add a few more lines to what Bob has raised regarding the Chinese herbs being an alternative treatment to cancer.I have a strong relationship with Chinese medicine since my father was a Chinese herbalist/acupuncturist (who died last year at the age of 85) and my father in law is currently a Chinese herbalist. However, I have resistance in using Chinese herbs to cure because I think it is not scientific and to me the herb soup is very unpleasant to drink and troublesome to prepare.The place I was born and brought up (Hong Kong) has a very western colour unlike the mainland China and this has a great impact on my choice of western treatment to my cancer. But people around out of their good will suggested different types of alternative therapy including Chinese herbs. As Bob said, you just couldn't say no and so the time before my actual treatment started, I took herb soup every day and night and indeed I felt my body strengthened and more energy going inside. When I started treatment, I stopped taking herbs as my oncologist was very much against Chinese medicine. When the radiation/chemo were over, I took herbs again for several months and quit when I found myself pretty normal.
I am not sure whether these Chinese herbs have helped me in lessening the side effects of treatment,maintaining my appetite,gaining weight within a few months.I feel it is no harm trying alternative therapy provided that is a supplement rather than the only one.We should also let our primary care doctor know what other treatment we have received in addition to the conventional one.

Karen stage 4 tonsil cancer diagnosed in 9/01.


Karen stage 4B (T3N3M0)tonsil cancer diagnosed in 9/2001.Concurrent chemo-radiation treatment ( XRT x 48 /Cisplatin x 4) ended in 12/01. Have been in remission ever since.

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