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Brian Hill #111124 01-28-2010 08:18 AM
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Cindy

I'm glad I have been away from the board this week, so that Brian, David, Gary, Markus, etc could all reply to you first. All of them are polite and nuanced in their approach and have covered the salient points.
I on the other hand am quite opinionated and outspoken with a professional & personal track record of acting and speaking right up to the line of Arrogance while hopefully not crossing it. The answer to your query as to why someone would post a link to the New York Time's article on mistakes with Radiation is quite simple: It is no good to stick our head in the sand nor be afraid of the truth.
I know this is a scary time, but what you need to be afraid of is NOT getting Radiation. I respectfully disagree with Brian that "the OCF family" is divided on this. I believe yours is a distinct minority voice if not a solitary one in advocating censorship of the bad things that can go wrong in our treatment.
On the other hand, your reaction is quite understandable. My caregiver wife shuddered when I showed her the original NYT article including the slide show and stated emphatically that she was so very glad that she did not know about this when I went for my 40 IMRT treatments and the computer kept crashing just like in the story. Please note that the poor patient had exactly the same diagnosis as I did: Base of Tongue cancer
In short, IMO, get the radiation. If you do not, and it comes back, you will for the rest of your life wonder and worry that you could have avoided it had you gotten radiation.
Letting an article like this dissuade you or even influence your decision is foolish to the extreme.
Charm

Last edited by Charm2017; 01-28-2010 08:29 AM. Reason: add family

65 yr Old Frack
Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+
2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG
2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery
25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin
Apaghia /G button
2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa
40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin

Passed away 4-29-13
Charm2017 #111131 01-28-2010 08:52 AM
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WARNING. THESE 9 PICTURES ARE VERY GRAPHIC AND EMOTIONAL AND PUT A PERSONAL FACE ON AN IMPERSONAL NEWS ARTICLE. DO NOT LOOK AT THEM UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO FEEL LIKE CRYING.

While the OCF news feed is very factual and scientific, sometimes a picture slide show really hits home. I could not help but shudder when I saw these but it made me all the more grateful for the fact that the majority of us posting here at OCF did NOT have these type of issues with IMRT.
NYT slide show on Radiation error
Still pushing up to the line
Charm


65 yr Old Frack
Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+
2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG
2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery
25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin
Apaghia /G button
2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa
40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin

Passed away 4-29-13
Charm2017 #111138 01-28-2010 09:35 AM
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Wow! Thank you so much for sharing that link. So incredibly sad and tragic. I for one feel people should be aware of all the "what ifs". Doctors are human beings and unfortunately this was a tragic, tragic accident. Hopefully bringing this out in the open will make people ask the "important" questions. I know we certainly grilled everyone involved with John's radiation treatments BEFORE he started treatments inquiring as to how the equipment works, how they know where to direct the beams etc.


Wanda (47) caregiver to husband John (56) age at diag.(2009)
1-13-09 diagnosed Stage IV BOT SCC (HPV+)
2-12-09 PEG placed, 7-6-09 removed
Cisplatin 7 weeks, 7 weeks (35) IMRT
4-15-09 - treatment completed
8-09,12-09-CT Scans clear, 4-10,6-11-PET Scans clear
4-2013 - HBO (30 dives) tooth extraction
10-2019 - tooth extraction, HBO (10 dives)
11-2019 - Left lateral tongue SCC - Stage 2
slim #111146 01-28-2010 11:58 AM
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I've watched this thread and have not wanted to weigh in on it as I believe there are others more tactful and knowledgeable then myself in these matters.

I've been involved on these boards for over a year now and I've noticed trends, recurring themes of posters. What I've noticed is that people starting their journey with this disease are afraid, terrified by the possibilities of what may happen from cancer and treatment. I've been emailed by new posters in frantic states needing clarification and a person to vent and relate to where they are going and what they are to expect.

My advice is always the same, 1) Don't let fear keep you from doing what needs to be done to fight this disease. 2) Keep yourself strong by filling your mind and heart with positive things, music, movies of hope and books of inspiration. 3) Keep away from the thoughts and images that will break your spirit and will to fight. 4) Get the absolute best medical advice available to you and follow it.

So yes, radiation can have devastating effects, especially if not administered correctly. I look at the many instances though of people who chose not to have radiation treatment and have seen the disease recurr and some die...and it reinforces the decision I made do everything in my power to knock this disease out before it killed me.

Courage is doing what needs to be done in the face of fear, not the absence of it. I'm currently having to comfort my best friend watch his mother die from uteran cancer. The cancer was caught early however she was too afraid of going through treatment and decided to rely on her faith in God to heal her. She has 6 months to a year to live, and after getting seen at the Mayo Clinic there are no other options for her.

"F" cancer

Eric


Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
EricS #111170 01-28-2010 07:54 PM
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Thanks again for yhr graphic pics Charm.. I might be weird , but it sure shows what life is about for some of us. Good job as usual by you. I like to read and look at anything that can affect me or anyone else.


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
EzJim #111268 01-30-2010 12:40 PM
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First, I want to apologise to anyone who I offended by posting this article by not going through the proper steps. And I hope that it does not deter anyone from getting the proper tx--it was not meant to do anything remotely close to that nature. After reading some posts, I felt like I washed a red sweatshirt with a load of whites.

The article scared the crap out of me too; however, it made a lot of sense at the same time. It brought back memories of the time when the tx center called me up and cancelled my Friday tx due to a system failure or the time(s) it took a little longer then normal to set up a tx. Not once did I ever assume that anything done during a tx could actually kill me. I applaud the team of professionals that treated me not only in a dot all the i's and cross all the t's manner, but did it in a caring mode as well. The whole crew was top notch. When it comes down to it, no matter where we are treated, we have to trust ourselves in the hands of others--there is no choice. Most of us with this cancer receive rad txs and everyone treated has issues but thank goodness that what happened to that young man is not a common problem.

Charm--Thank you for posting the slides of Scott Jerome. It brought a face and a life to what I read--it made it more real even though I had tx myself. Seeing Scott with his arms wide open reminds me of the time I would sleep in bed and dream of being a child awaken by my mum-mum so many years ago--safe and sound, comfortable, without pain, without sorrow, before cancer entered my life through others or in my own body. Most of us here know what Scott is thinking and feeling at that moment with his arms stretched out and eyes closed.

For better or for worse, Scott Jerome, like so many of us has made it to the right site for OC patients--OCF. One person, every hour of every day dies from this type of cancer. Every cancer patient, every caregiver, ought to be this lucky to have some place to turn to for whatever particular need. Censorship? Quarantining the good from the bad? Those that don't know history are destined to repeat it.

Brian--that's great that you will be adding those new sections!

Now I am going to go to that ISLAND for a much needed drink....




7-16-08 age 37@Dx, T3N0M0 SCC 4.778cm tumor, left side of oral tongue, non smoker, casual drinker, I am the 4th in my family to have H&N cancer
8-13-08 left neck dissection and 40% of tongue removed, submandibular salivary gland & 14 nodes clean, no chemo, IMRTx35
11-4-08 Recovering & feeling better
Ray1971 #111289 01-30-2010 08:30 PM
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In case anyone has not noticed, the person that was so upset by this only posted two times to the boards, and never after this came back. At the end of the day, we can't be everything to everyone. Some people don't want to hear anything that they perceive to be negative. In the end, that myopia does not help them to make good decisions. I though Gary's post about looking a the name on the machine was highly useful, and everyone's insistence that being fully informed of the positives and negatives I think would give anyone pause for thought about the value in it. Oh well.......


Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
Brian Hill #111323 01-31-2010 02:50 PM
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This article was also in the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/us/27radiation.html?hpw%3Cbr%3E

I understand human, training and software error factors but it would seem to me that routinely using a Phantom to test and calibrate the IMRT output, dose distribution and targeting accuracy should be a no brainer standard requirement.

I would think at least the NCI and ACS would have made it a requirement for designation and/or accreditation as an approved Cancer Center.

I looked for an online copy of the ACS Commission-on-Cancer standards for accreditation, but haven't yet found them (they seem to be for sale for $30!)



Don
TXN2bM0 Stage IVa SCC-Occult Primary
FNA 6/6/08-SCC in node<2cm
PET/CT 6/19/08-SCC in 2nd node<1cm
HiRes CT 6/21/08
Exploratory,Tonsillectomy(benign),Right SND 6/23/08
PEG 7/3/08-11/6/08
35 TomoTherapy 7/16/08-9/04/08 No Chemo
Clear PET/CT 11/15/08, 5/15/09, 5/28/10, 7/8/11

DonB #111331 01-31-2010 03:26 PM
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RSNA would be a better vehicle for that (Radiological Society of North America). ACR (American College of Radiology) would also be an organization that sets up quality standards (they did all of mammography standards). Most LINAC's are checked daily by a nuclear physicist for calibration and there are many interlocks to prevent machine malfunctions, including high dose rates. That is why it is vital to insure that your name is on the computer treatment profile in the treatment room. Most problems with LINAC's are human induced. They have been in use for over 50 years and are quite a reliable technology. Double dose treatment would have to be a programming issue, not software, or operator error.

I just wanted to add, after reading the article, that it is quite common for several doctors to get together and set up a radiology treatment center, then outsource the service to one or more hospitals. It's quite profitable. A 6 million dollar machine will pay for itself in 2 years and has a 5 year life span. The programming for IMRT requires skill and experience. It's just one more argument for getting your treatment at a Cancer Center or better yet, Comprehensive Cancer Center where they do this all the time and know the subtilties of programming the equipment and best pathways for minimum tissue damage. An additional wrinkle in this is there is always a shortage of rad techs, physicists and programmers. The new machines have data acquisition systems in them so where were the quality assurance checks?

Last edited by Gary; 01-31-2010 03:41 PM.

Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
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