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#97823 06-21-2009 06:30 PM
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Hello!
Just found this site this morning. I'm so glad, I know it will be a great tool to be able to read and ask questions to those of you that have already gone through this journey!

My name is Elizabeth, I am 29 years old. I from San Antonio, Texas but I am getting treated at MD Anderson in Houston. I was diagnosed on March 27th of 2009 with a Low Grade Mucoepidermoid Carcinoma (Salivary Gland), its classified as a T4N2M0. I have no history at all, never drank or smoked. My only exposure to chemicals is to chemo because I'm also an Oncology nurse. Yes...you read that right, I take care of cancer patients for a living and now I am one of them! I had very little symptoms, a little trismus but I could feel a small lymph node enlargement on the right side of my neck (drs have a hard time feeling for it but scans show it is there). The only other symptom is some right ear discomfort, dating back after my 2nd daughter was born (about 3 years ago), I would get it checked out and it was either an ear infection or ear wax buildup. It wasn't until I was pregnant with my 3rd daughter that things progressed, and when she was 6 months old is when I went to see my PCP and he noticed the mass on the right side of my tonsil. He was amazed that I had no problems swallowing or sore throats, choking on food. I've seen numerous doctors even ones I work with but MDA is the best at this and especially since my CA is a rarer gem, this is the place I felt I needed to be.

I've been through 3 round of chemo, I'm scheduled for surgery on June 30th and then I will have radiation (+/- cisplatin). As far as surgery, it looks like they will do a free flap intraorally and have mandible reconstruction, take some of the right base of my tongue as well as the tonsils. Neck dissection as well, I will be trached and have a PEG placed. I meet with the head and neck surgeon again tomorrow and tonight I'm trying to write down my questions, last I saw him I was still in a bit of shock form the news that I didn't ask anything, I couldn't believe he wanted to take my jaw!! I've gotten copies of my CT scan and don't see anything about it invading my jawbone, so I'll be asking him why he wants to remove it.

Has anyone on here had a Salivary Cancer? All the drs I saw thought for sure I had SCCA but after two biopsies and different pathologists looking at it, it was confirmed that I didn't.

I look forward to getting to know everyone on here!!!


Dx 3/27/09 @ 28 years old with High Grade MEC T4N2M0
Elizabeth, 33, mother of 3 girls (4,7, &8yrs old)
3 rds of chemo(Carbo/Taxol)
Rt Mandibulectomy, rt fibular flap,& rt ND with trach, picc,& g-tube.
30 rds of rads with weekly cisplatin
SCANS ALL CLEAR!
OCF Regional Coordinator of San Antonio Walk
ESikon #97824 06-21-2009 06:43 PM
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Welcome to OCF Elizabeth. I am so sorry you are here being so young and especially in your line of work. You will find so much support here.

Your cancer is rare, almost everyone here has had SCC, myself included. I was also told if the radiation and chemo didnt work, my upper and lower jaws would be removed and rebuilt using bone from my leg. The radiation and chemo worked for me but I did have a recurrance a few months later. The doctors think it was just a tiny piece of cancer that wasnt taken care of the first time. It was cured by surgery which resulted in severe trismus. Please be very careful with trismus. It only gets worse and worse, please keep a very careful eye on it. Stretching exercises do work, I also saw a physical therapist.

You mentioned a peg tube. Are you also getting a port? If you need any pointers on PEG tube feedings, I have learned several tricks for that to be successful too.

It helps if you try to take someone with you to help write down your questions and answers for doctor visits. Also, now is the time to line up all the help you can get. Even for simple things like driving you to the pharmacy or treatments. If you call the American Cancer Society, they may have some things available to help you too.

Best of luck with everything.


Christine
SCC 6/15/07 L chk & by L molar both Stag I, age44
2x cispltn-35 IMRT end 9/27/07
-65 lbs in 2 mo, no caregvr
Clear PET 1/08
4/4/08 recur L chk Stag I
surg 4/16/08 clr marg
215 HBO dives
3/09 teeth out, trismus
7/2/09 recur, Stg IV
8/24/09 trach, ND, mandiblctmy
3wks medicly inducd coma
2 mo xtended hospital stay, ICU & burn unit
PICC line IV antibx 8 mo
10/4/10, 2/14/11 reconst surg
OC 3x in 3 years
very happy to be alive smile
ChristineB #97825 06-21-2009 07:17 PM
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Search for mucoepidermoid in the box in the upper right hand corner of each forum page, and you'll get several pages of results. You can click on a poster's name to get his/her profile information, including e-mail/private message.

Yours is the second case of that particular cancer I recall seeing here in the last month; the other one was also in a young (30 yrs old) woman.

This is a terrific site for both information and support. I wish you all the best in your continued treatment.


Leslie

April 2006: Husband dx by dentist with leukoplakia on tongue. Oral surgeon's biopsy 4/28/06: Moderate dysplasia; pathology report warned of possible "skip effect." ENT's excisional biopsy (got it all) 5/31/06: SCC in situ/small bit superficially invasive. Early detection saves lives.
ChristineB #97826 06-21-2009 07:19 PM
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Hi Elizabeth,
Sorry to hear of your recent dignosis butI'm glad you've found this site. Its been very very helpful to me.My MO was at MD Anderson for awhile before he came to Cal Pacific/ UCSF. I'm glad you are under the best of care for your condition.

I knwo with younger patients the tendency so to be as aggressive as possible and to avoid any possibility of recurrance. Maybe they have identified a possibility that it may have invaded the jawbone? Severla people ehre have had the jawbone replacement surgery and I know that it has gone well and been successful for most of them. Being young you will fare better than someone in thier older years... When they told me they were going to have to take almost all of my tongue and use some of my forearm muscles I was just baffled by how it could all possibly work and how I would ever possibly recover! eat again talk again... but you just put one foot in front of the other and put your trust in the Drs. who know this disease well and build a strong network of friends and family you will get through it.

I have recoverd very very well for all that I've been through. You body will heal itself and adapt and compromise.

The most important thing is to get the cancer out and gone forever.

I'm very sorry that you are going through this. I'm glad you have an excellent medical staff and supportive and loving family.Must be a very surreal going through this as an oncology nurse I can imagine.

We are here for you! I am praying for a very successful outcome with your treatments and upcoming surgery.

KATE

Last edited by misskate; 06-21-2009 07:21 PM.

Tongue Cancer T2 N0 M0 /
Total Glossectomy Due to Location of Tumor

Finished all treatments May 25 2007
Surviving!!!
misskate #97829 06-21-2009 07:53 PM
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Hi Elizabeth,

I am sorry to here about your diagnosis. I use to live in Houston and San Marcos (went to Texas State)....So I know San Antonio and Austin a bit...I know MD Anderson is one of the best but did you ever consider getting a second opinion or second biopsy?

Mistakes do happen...


7-16-08 age 37@Dx, T3N0M0 SCC 4.778cm tumor, left side of oral tongue, non smoker, casual drinker, I am the 4th in my family to have H&N cancer
8-13-08 left neck dissection and 40% of tongue removed, submandibular salivary gland & 14 nodes clean, no chemo, IMRTx35
11-4-08 Recovering & feeling better
misskate #97830 06-21-2009 07:56 PM
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Thanks ladies!
christine- I have a picc line in place. My hubby comes with me and becomes my secretary!!LOL Although its hard for him b/c he doesn't get the medical lingo and writes some off the wall stuff!!LOL I have been stretching my jaw for the trismus but I have noticed it getting worse, I tried to eat a tootsie pop and it wouldn't fit inside my mouth. I meet with a therapist tomorrow for some exercises and I believe they should fit me for some machine to do some stretching exercises.

leslie- I'm off to search for those posts! thxs!

kate - I looked up my first ct scan and it said this " lies along medial aspect of mandibular ramus" but then says "no gross bony invasion" so I guess its just on top of the jawbone and not through it, he may be just wanting to take the bone just in case, for clear margins??? but then wouldn't radiation take care of any microscopic cells that may have been left behind??




Dx 3/27/09 @ 28 years old with High Grade MEC T4N2M0
Elizabeth, 33, mother of 3 girls (4,7, &8yrs old)
3 rds of chemo(Carbo/Taxol)
Rt Mandibulectomy, rt fibular flap,& rt ND with trach, picc,& g-tube.
30 rds of rads with weekly cisplatin
SCANS ALL CLEAR!
OCF Regional Coordinator of San Antonio Walk
ESikon #97831 06-21-2009 07:59 PM
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Ray1971 - I went through 3 sets of doctors and 2 biopsies, I would have loved for it to have been misdiagnosed but unfortunately it isn't so, I can see the mass myself on the righ tside of my tonsil and when I check internally on the base of tongue, it is fusing with the tonsil.


Dx 3/27/09 @ 28 years old with High Grade MEC T4N2M0
Elizabeth, 33, mother of 3 girls (4,7, &8yrs old)
3 rds of chemo(Carbo/Taxol)
Rt Mandibulectomy, rt fibular flap,& rt ND with trach, picc,& g-tube.
30 rds of rads with weekly cisplatin
SCANS ALL CLEAR!
OCF Regional Coordinator of San Antonio Walk
ESikon #97838 06-21-2009 09:01 PM
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For a long time i have been wondering"is it just me?" but i dont think it is anymore.When Margaret Hupe,myself and a few others were in the thick of caring for our husbands, everyone was quite surprised at how young they were.then Kate joined the forum and we were all horrified that someone her age was suffering so badly.Now it seems nearly every week we get a younger new member.Is the diease on the increase or are we getting the message out there and its being picked up quicker?

This is going to be one helluva fight for you with such a young family and i wish you all the best .

As for your question,Rob had a lemon wedge dissection of his tongue and they knew he had cells left and thought rads would mop up any stragglers. You can see from my signature they were wrong,so perhaps it will be better not to leave anything to chance

love liz


Liz in the UK

Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007
Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.

Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
Cookey #97851 06-22-2009 05:28 AM
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Liz,

I have been questioning this "new" type of OC for about a year now on this site. Used to be mainly tobacco/alcohol, then HPV and now we are seeing more and more very young patients that don't use tobacco, light to none drinkers and HPV-. SOMETHING else is causing OC and no one has discovered the why.



David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #97852 06-22-2009 05:40 AM
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Elizabeth,

I know MDA has a great history but I also think you may benefit from a second opinion from another CCC. For one, I don't see the need for a ND, especially if they are recommending chemo and radiation. Being on this site for 3 years now I continue to see what I call (I'm a CPA not a doctor now) unnecessary ND's and I see a ton of those patients have long term issues because of that surgery. I saw 5 doctors and 3 recommended a ND and Moffitt told me that they didn't think I would need one because the radiation/chemo would do the trick. They did tell me that they could always do the ND post Tx if it was as successful as they thought. I am coming up on 3 years post Tx and everytime I read about someone almost bragging about an all clear ND or post ND issues I thank Moffitt. I see more ND's before someone is seen by a CCC so I guess I'm a little surprised by MDA's recommendation. Perhaps they are dead on( chances are) but it is your life and you are so young so would it hurt to have their recommendations reviewed by another CCC?


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #97870 06-22-2009 11:26 AM
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Funny how opinions differ David.having a neck dissection makes perfect sense to me ,but i expect thats because rob had one and so do most patients in the uk.It seems fairly logical that the lymph glands should be thoroughly examined and sent for pathology if the primary is quite advanced,and really the neck dissection was a breeze compared to everything else,three days in hospital and back at work after ten.I do however worry about surgery on irradiated skin the healing process is so much harder with fragile tissue.Still i suppose its horses for courses,and as rob already had a massive secondary in his parotid gland a neck dissection was a no brainer.I wonder perhaps if we all tend to lend our opinion to the treatment we chose,especially if it worked!!

liz


Liz in the UK

Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007
Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.

Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
davidcpa #97881 06-22-2009 02:15 PM
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I had to laugh at the neck dissection being a breeze comment and beg to differ. Experience one neck cramp and get back to me on that one, ok? Or the loss of movement of the lower lip, feeling and movement to one side of your tongue...all of these can be side effects (of which I suffer from them all) and are in no way a "breeze". They are in fact life altering.

I was however glad to have one done as they did find a few nodes with signs of cancer even after going through chemo and radx.

Elizabeth, I was 33 at time of diagnosis and have gone through much of what you are about to experience, although I don't have your type of cancer. I think you made a good choice with MD Anderson, 2nd opinions are smart, but you can't get better care really. Don't let this stuff scare you, you can do this! I've had the whole right side of my jaw replace, neck dissection...the works, if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. I'm also on facebook, www.facebook.com/eric.statler, I love facebook! and recommend it to help keep people updated.

Good luck and keep breathing!

Eric


Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
EricS #97887 06-22-2009 02:50 PM
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Liz,

I'm sure everyone promotes the type of treatment they rec'd especially when it works but I also have read hundreds and hundreds of negative posts re ND's dealing with post surgery complications some posting years after their surgery about neck cramps, stiffness and life altering complications. So when I'm told by Moffitt, one of the top 10 CCC's in the U.S. and by one of the county's leading RO's that (in my case) he recommends the concurrent radiation/chemo first and no ND knowing that 3 doctors before him did recommend a ND and he tells me that Moffitt's experience has shown that the patient fares better with this approach and couple that with all the negative posts of people that did have one, I try to tell people my story and suggest they should get a 2nd opinion by a CCC. In Elizabeth's case she had already had multiple opinions and has been seen by a CCC but I still felt I needed to share my thoughts.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #97899 06-22-2009 03:58 PM
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Hi Elizabeth and welcome. Wow....an oncology nurse? That just shows you never know what's going to happen. I bet it's nice to really have an understanding of what the docs are saying to you and understanding those darn pathology reports!!!

I'm sure you have knowledge, we will provide the support. I'm 29 also, minus the 3 kids:) I just have the husband.

How are you doing with the chemo?


Suzanne
***********
T1 SCC on right side of tongue
Age 31...27 when diagnosed
4 partial glossectomies
No chemo or radiation
Biopsy on 2/2/10-Clear
Surgery needed again...no later than April 2011
Loving life and just became a mother on 11/25/10
It's not what we CAN'T do..it's what we CAN do:)
suzanne98 #97907 06-22-2009 06:16 PM
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Liz,, whatever I agree with you on this one too. I had it and it wasn't all that bad compared to everything else I have had. Yep, it was a breeze compared. Try an aneurysm guys and see what the real stuff can be like. They cut your stomache muscles and when you try to sit up or something that moves the stomache. you think you might end up in 2 pieces. But I can handle that too. LOL with tears at times.


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
suzanne98 #97908 06-22-2009 06:18 PM
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IMO, David's posts recommending getting several opinions from CCCs, if someone hasn't already, for anyone starting on this crappy journey are probably one of the best pieces of advice anyone could get.

I sure wish I had of got more than 2.

Best wishes Elizabeth with all your appointments.

Karen

Last edited by Karen Rose; 06-22-2009 07:36 PM.

46 yrs:
Apr 07-SCC 80% entire tongue removed,T4N1M0
Neck/D,Jaw Split, Trache 2 ops,PEG 3.5yrs
30 x rad,6 x Cisplatin,
30 x HBO
Apr'08- flap Recon + ORN Mandibulectomy
(hip bone to reconstruct jaw)
Oct'08 1 Plate out-jaw
Mar'09 Debulk flap
Sep'09/Jan&Nov'10/Feb&Jun'11/Jan&Jul'12/Oct'13/April'14-More surgery
EzJim #97909 06-22-2009 06:20 PM
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The Nissen fundiplication on your esophagus is no walk in the park either. In fact it might be worse. They wrap 1/3 of your stomache around your esophagus and believe me, I still feel that thing and this surgery was done in 1996. A lifetime of Zantac and Mylanta for me.


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
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Elizabeth, I had so many opinions they confused each other, The Oncologist I saw 1st at A Hospital in Wheeling , WVa was the one that had it right from the get go.After him I was sent to West Virginia University Hospital, then I was went to Ohio State James Comp. Cancer center. I had a couple of surgeries there but was told I didn't need chemo or rads because OSU got it all. The Oncologist from Wheeling Hosp, would call OSU and argue wuth him to give me the rads and chemo. Finally OSU said I had Cancer back and operated on me 2 more times then told me I need rads and chemo. LOL The Dr at OSU dsaid I suppose you want that Dr from wheeling to do what else you need. Hell yes I did, I had to have my teeth removed , I had a fortune in thise babies, and then after that I had the rads and chemo and was treated agressivley. I had Rad seed implants in my tongue or what is left of it. I was supposed to be in LaLa land for 3 days which turned into 7 days.Was readied for a rest home to die until I woke up the day before transfer. Dr was sitting by my bed when I opened my eyes and he siad, Jim, you are my mis=racle patient and have been his and the surgeons buddy since. Tell me to shut up will ya? I got carried away,, sorry Elizabeth. My daughter is the charge nurse in ouy heart unit and I have a couple more nurses in the family
too.


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
ESikon #97923 06-22-2009 07:10 PM
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Dear Elizabeth:
I'm sorry you have to join our support group, but members on this site will do their best to help you on your journey to get well.
I am hesitant to mention this as I don't want to scare you, but since you're being treated by one of the best (Anderson, Texas) and you'r a nurse, I feel more comfortable relating this to you.
Last month at our Support Group, a gentlemen was there that had cancer in his Salivary Gland. He was treated at Georgetown Hospital, DC and Cyberknife. His left side of his face was paralyzed, and he was deaf in left ear. He was extremely bitter, so no one engaged him in conversation too much. I'm mentioning this as to warn you to ask as many questions as possible about what COULD go wrong with the operation.

Wishing you the best.
Sandyst



Sandy 56, BOT SCC Biopsy 1/21/09 Stage 3, T3NXM0.
Finished 3 cycle induction chemotherapy 4/7/09. (Chisplatin, 5-fu and Texotere). Re-staged 4/20/09,(very successful.) Will start Carboplatin/radiation 2 Gy/5 days/7 weeks (Tomotherapy) starting May 4th. Finished 6/22/09.
OCF member/supporter

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[quote]A breeze COMPARED TO EVERYTHING ELSE [/quote]


Liz in the UK

Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007
Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.

Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
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David's point and mine are Neck Dissections shouldn't be taken lightly and in no way an outpatient procedure without complications.

I can't use half of my tongue, affecting eating, drinking, swallowing and most importantly kissing.

I've lost function in my lower lip, affecting eating, drinking and kissing (again) and it's disfiguring.

I'd go through chemo and radiation again rather then have these side effects, they are not a breeze and I'm sure anyone who's experienced them would feel the same.


Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
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Hi Elizabeth,

So sorry to read about your diagnosis.

I hope we can be of support to you as you go through this journey. And, I hope you have great support at home...three little girls sounds like a busy household.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this at such a young age. I'm sure being an oncology nurse has it's advantages in understanding treatment options and medical terminology, but I am sure it doesn't help prepare you for the day when you learn you are going to be the patient.

Will keep you in my thoughts.


Margaret
----------
C/G: Husband, 48 (at time of dx)
Dx 5/18/07 SCC, BOT, lymph node involvement. T1N2BM0. (Stage 4a, G2/3)
Tx 6/18 - 8/3/07, IMRT x 33 Cisplatin x3 (stopped after 1st dose due to hearing issues). Weekly Erbitux started 6/27/07 completed 8/6/07.
ESikon #97941 06-23-2009 01:35 AM
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Elizabeth

Welcome but sorry you had to join our little club. As you can tell from the posts on your thread, this is not a bashful group (at least the minority of us who post rather than read- with over 6,000 members, it's still easy to round up the "usual suspects" here). I have mixed feelings about second opinions on TX since I went both times with my Georgetown CCC suggestions primarily because they made sense and sometimes too much choice is counterproductive especially if you get a recurrence (god forbid). this way i don't worry about maybe I should have picked the other TX plans. Of course I was lucky in that my team decided that a neck dissection, jaw surgery etc were all too aggressive at first. I am living proof you can get massive radiation and chemo and still get the neck dissection, glossectomy, traech etc later. I remain shell shocked about how much harder the surgical options were on my long term quality of life -with the swallowing, speech, disfigurement issues. So I just wanted to wish you the best of luck.
charm


65 yr Old Frack
Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+
2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG
2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery
25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin
Apaghia /G button
2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa
40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin

Passed away 4-29-13
Charm2017 #97954 06-23-2009 06:03 AM
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Jim,

It's not about how easy one surgery may be when compared to others....it's about whether you need the surgery in the first place. No surgery is good unless the benefits outweigh the risks and complications. I thank Moffitt everyday I read about someone's ND. Because of them I avoided an unnecessary surgery. So that's my advice, before you go under someone's knife, make sure you have a consensus of opinions from the most qualified professionals you can get.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #97962 06-23-2009 08:01 AM
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Hi Elizabeth -
I echo Margaret's thoughts for you (a couple posts back). But I do want to share with you my husband's experience(s). I rarely read in here about jawbone "shaving" which is what he had done at Shands in Gainesville several years ago. I hope I remember his treatment correctly (as he has had 4 small OCCs over the years). He had a small cancer on his gum so they removed 2 teeth at that time (he lost a third tooth with a later surgery) and shaved the jawbone, none of which showed any bone invasion. He also had a neck dissection in 2002 because there were 2 suspicious nodes circled on his xrays but there was no cancer, in any of the nodes removed. Because all his cancers were so small, clean, and well diffentiated, they decided against rads and chemo each time. He is doing well today, but retains some numbness on his ear lobe and neck from the dissection. But he didn't have the problems that Eric had with his. He has more trouble eating with the missing teeth than with the remnants of the ND surgery.
Just another voice heard from. Best of treatment to you. JaneP


Husband: 3 SCC gum and cheek cancers 2002, 2005, 2006: surgery only. Scans clear after removal of small, well differentiated, non-invasive cancers. No radiation. 4th SCC lip diagnosed 4/13/07 - in situ, removed in biopsy. More lip removed 2/8/08 - dysplasia. 2 Biopsies 3/17/09 no cancer (lichenoids)
Lostpassword #97968 06-23-2009 08:38 AM
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Thanks everyone! WOW it's so much to process!!! I am confident on the choice of sticking with MDA, afterall they have been the most thorough with my treatment. All the doctors that I have seen would have done relatively the same surgery. After meeting with them yesterday, it appears that they are only going to take out the ramus of the mandible, which I thought they were going to take half of my jawbone, so this is better. Chemo did not work because my CA is slow growing and chemo doesn't work as effective as it would with a fast growing CA. THe tumor is too massive for rad alone, so not having surgery is not an option. I wish it was!! It's a scary time, I will do anything to make sure I am here for my little girls!!!!


Dx 3/27/09 @ 28 years old with High Grade MEC T4N2M0
Elizabeth, 33, mother of 3 girls (4,7, &8yrs old)
3 rds of chemo(Carbo/Taxol)
Rt Mandibulectomy, rt fibular flap,& rt ND with trach, picc,& g-tube.
30 rds of rads with weekly cisplatin
SCANS ALL CLEAR!
OCF Regional Coordinator of San Antonio Walk
ESikon #97978 06-23-2009 02:10 PM
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Eric,
You fail to mention that besides the Neck disecction, you also had a RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap. I doubt many of the side effects you are complaining about are all due to the ND unless someone really screwed it up.

I have had two of these, one left and one right. I have no side effects on the one on the left. I had a neuroma from the one on the right side that caused me to have sensitivity to the ear, but that was a screw up on the surgeons part.

I suspect your loss of movement in the tongue and lip are not from a ND but from the other surgery you had. While some people do get neck cramps, I've never heard anyone exhibit your complaints from a ND. People, however, do complain about loss of function in their shoulder and arm. Whether this happens depends on what quadrants the surgeon removes and what muscles he had to cut.

While I'm with David in not doing unnecessary surgery, in some cases a ND is necessary. In my case, I had mets to one side of my neck with an occult primary. Radiation might have got it all, but I wasn't going to take the chance. Most people do not have the all the side effects you describe.

Take care,
Eileen



----------------------
Aug 1997 unknown primary, Stage III
mets to 1 lymph node in neck; rt ND, 36 XRT rad
Aug 2001 tiny tumor on larynx, Stage I total laryngectomy; left ND
June 5, 2010 dx early stage breast cancer
June 9, 2011 SCC 1.5 cm hypo pharynx, 70% P-16 positive, no mets, Stage I
Eileen #97979 06-23-2009 02:41 PM
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Eileen and others,

I would never advocate not doing anything that was medically necessary. My only point is to do your homework, do your due diligence and make sure that what is recommended for you is needed. Certainly err on the side of being conservative when your life is at risk but do try and make sure you need the treatment recommended. ENT's are surgeons so guess what they are going to recommend? That's why I always tell people to get to a CCC, if at all possible, and have a team evaluation.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #97981 06-23-2009 02:52 PM
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Actually, I was given a choice as to whether or not to have the ND. This was 1997 and knew nothing about oral cancer. I did know a coworker that had a lump in her neck and was very dead 9 months later. Her's was mets from breast cancer but I didn't know that then. So I was running scared and not taking any chances and wanted this out NOW. I don't think they told me about the side effects, but I don't remember.

Take care,
Eileen


----------------------
Aug 1997 unknown primary, Stage III
mets to 1 lymph node in neck; rt ND, 36 XRT rad
Aug 2001 tiny tumor on larynx, Stage I total laryngectomy; left ND
June 5, 2010 dx early stage breast cancer
June 9, 2011 SCC 1.5 cm hypo pharynx, 70% P-16 positive, no mets, Stage I
Eileen #98003 06-23-2009 08:22 PM
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Eileen, I proudly post my procedures in my signature for all to see, which is how you knew.

My surgeries were all done in one happy fun fest, I had them all done at one time. My surgeon explained to me the possible complications and probabilities to each step they did and was there to explain to me why I have the issues that I have. I knew the complications to each step as well due to a wonderful tool called google before I went under the knife.

While I will point out that I'm probably worst case scenario here (surviving)as I had a stage 4 primary that took up most of my face and jaw but also I had a stage 4 lymph node as well with several hot nodes.

However each complication listed is well documented and easily found in an internet search if you don't have access to an Otolaryngologist.


Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
EricS #98006 06-23-2009 09:10 PM
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Eric, do you feel that your facial paralysis is due to the surgery involved in the mandibulectomy and reconstruction, or to the neck dissection? I had some of the same issues, from the surgery itself.....drooping lower lip, numb upper lip.....inability to smile or kiss...numbness and stoppage in my ear.....but it all came mostly back. I can't make a perfect "o" with my mouth, but other than that, all is normal. I had some issues after the ND, such as some damage to my singing voice bec. of damage to the laryngeal nerve....and some nerve damage resulting in Horner's Syndrome, which oddly involves eyelid damage, abnormal pupillary response, and lack of sweating on the affected side (very odd indeed.)

I am mostly interested in why you think you had the paralysis, because I am interested in having reconstructive surgery done for my maxillectomy, using the same fibular free-flap surgery.

BTW..how is your leg? and your walking?

Thanks. XO--Colleen


Colleen--T-2N0M0 SCC dx'd 12/28/05...Hemi-maxillectomy, partial palatectomy, neck dissection 1/4/06....clear margins, neg. nodes....no radiation, no chemo....Cancer-free at 4 years!
August #98015 06-24-2009 02:52 AM
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Elizabeth, I am sorry that this thread has been reduced to this by the way...welcome to the OCF boards I guess.

Colleen!! I love you of course and will answer any and all of your questions because you are you!

They compromised my facial nerve removing the damaged tissue caused by my primary tumor prior to inputting my flap. My surgeon told me they would have to "stretch the nerve" to get to all of the areas needed and there was a possibility of the nerve regaining function...to date no good. My ENT says there is no hope there.

My surgeon also told me that I'd likely have nerve damage to my tongue and lower lip due to the neck dissection procedure, also due to where my cancerous nodes were, size etc. I too have issues with my voice, I can't raise my voice or talk loudly.

The leg is weak, I haven't been able to run on it and still walk with a slight limp. I can do squats(weightless) but no calf raises. I managed a bike ride with the kids the other day however am paying for it now...dancing is a challenge as well.

Hope that helps Colleen, you rock, PM me or hit me on facebook if you need more info www.facebook.com/eric.statler


Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
EricS #98208 06-26-2009 06:16 PM
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I did want to comment on the RND and Liz's intent of her post. She wasn't downplaying the side effects that may occur in an RND. Many here have had RND's and had little side effects. What Liz meant was that an RND is very similar to a facelift in many ways and the total time for the wounds to heal is about 3 weeks. Radiation, on the other hand, takes one month of healing for every week of radiation. Eric's situation is complex in that he received not only an RND but also a free flap and mandiblectomy which was subsequently irradiated. There can certainly be side effects from this and some may be permanent. His staging was advanced enough that the surgeon perfoming it appears to have been following the NCCN guidelines for treatment, particularly since there was nodal, bone involvement and debulking.

All of us respond differently to treatment and Erics tumor must have been very agressive for the surgeons to take such major steps to save his life.

I had radiation and chemo only and have neck cramps as a result. It also took 5 years or so to get my full voice back. So not having intubation or surgery is not a guarantee that you won't have some of these issues in the future.

Head and neck cancer is a tough disease and for certain the most difficult time in my life. Just the fact that it is located in such a delicate and complex area makes it very difficult to treat and recovery can be long and tedious.

Last edited by Gary; 06-30-2009 09:12 AM.

Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
Gary #98224 06-26-2009 11:15 PM
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Thanks for that Gary.All i was saying was that in the overall picture of his treatment Robins bilateral radical neck dissection and secondary tumour removal gave him the least amouint of problems in terms of the actual operation and his recovery.(Yes it was a breeze compared to radiotherapy)He was in hospital for 36 hours after the operation and came home with 58 staples in his neck which were removed after 10 days.He was back at work after two weeks with no side effects at first,but of course the bruised trigeminal nerve gave him heaps later on when it started to recover.

I am sure that if you have other major surgery concurrently it will give you a very different view of a neck dissection,but i wasn't aware that this was the question.



liz

Last edited by Cookey; 06-26-2009 11:15 PM.

Liz in the UK

Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007
Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.

Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
Cookey #98235 06-27-2009 05:51 AM
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Eric did make assumptions that we all read his signature line (and we should have) but we are all human.

But this thread has been hijacked from Elizabeth so let's get back to her questions.

My doctors recommended against an RND because of the potential mortality rate being increased due to the length of time of the surgery. I did not present with any nodal involvement and I also had a "moderately well differentiated" and "focally invasive" tumor. My head & neck surgeon was the one making the recommendation. It was all about "risk & benefit".

I have been working on new content for the site for rarer forms of OC and some pages on ACC will appear in the near future. Salivary gland ACC is rare and can't be compared to SCC.

An extract of my draft content:

This category of malignant tumors of the salivary glands is a diagnosis of exclusion, that is, all adenocarcinomas that do not fit into any previously described tumors of the salivary gland are classified here. The tumors are usually solitary and asymptomatic with 20% of tumors presenting with pain. About half of the tumors are fixed to the underlying tissue.

Verrucous Carcinoma
Verrucous carcinoma is a type of squamous cell carcinoma that makes up less than 5% of all oral cavity tumors. It is a low-grade cancer that rarely spreads to other parts of the body but can deeply spread into surrounding tissue. Therefore, it is important to surgically remove the tumor and a wide margin of surrounding tissue.

Minor Salivary Gland Carcinomas
Minor salivary gland cancers can develop in the glands that are found throughout the lining of the mouth and throat. There are several types of minor salivary gland cancers, including adenoid cystic carcinoma, mucoepidermoid carcinoma, and polymorphous low-grade adenocarcinoma. For more information about these cancers and benign salivary gland tumors, see the American Cancer Society document, Salivary Gland Cancer

Lymphomas
The tonsils and base of the tongue contain immune system (lymphoid) tissue that can develop into a cancer called a lymphoma. For more information about these cancers refer to the American Cancer Society documents, Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Hodgkin Disease.

ACC is defined as a primary glandular neoplasm demonstrating differentiation toward the terminal intercalated ductal acinar (intercalated) unit and exhibiting one or more of histologic patterns

The parotid is the most common primary site involved in up to 90 of cases , followed by the minor salivary glands [. ACC accounts for 7% to 17.5% of malignant salivary gland tumours. The reported age range for patients with ACC is 3 to 91 years and the female to male ratio is approximately 2:1. The average age range of diagnosis is 38 to 46 years, which is a decade younger than patients with other parotid malignancies. ACC is the second most common salivary gland neoplasm occurring in childhood after Warthin's tumor and pleomorphic adenoma and the third most common bilateral salivary gland tumor.

Last edited by Gary; 06-27-2009 08:20 AM.

Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
Gary #98239 06-27-2009 07:44 AM
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Thanks Gary.

I am going forth in surgery, it's on Tuesday the 30th of June, so please everyone just keep me in your thoughts that day. I really would appreciate it!


Dx 3/27/09 @ 28 years old with High Grade MEC T4N2M0
Elizabeth, 33, mother of 3 girls (4,7, &8yrs old)
3 rds of chemo(Carbo/Taxol)
Rt Mandibulectomy, rt fibular flap,& rt ND with trach, picc,& g-tube.
30 rds of rads with weekly cisplatin
SCANS ALL CLEAR!
OCF Regional Coordinator of San Antonio Walk
ESikon #98246 06-27-2009 09:13 AM
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Will do xx


Liz in the UK

Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007
Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.

Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
Cookey #98252 06-27-2009 12:25 PM
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I had no problems with my neck dissection or the tongue surgery either. None at all until my teeth, were taken and the rads and chemo followed by the rad seed implants in my tongue.That's when my journeu really began and still is my main problem That isn't adding in this aneurysm that is being ready to be repaired very soon. I imagine people wish my mouth was paralyized at times. LOL


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
EzJim #98260 06-27-2009 01:31 PM
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Sending lots of good thoughts your way Elizabeth!! Will be on the look outs for your posts, hope all goes well!!


Margaret
----------
C/G: Husband, 48 (at time of dx)
Dx 5/18/07 SCC, BOT, lymph node involvement. T1N2BM0. (Stage 4a, G2/3)
Tx 6/18 - 8/3/07, IMRT x 33 Cisplatin x3 (stopped after 1st dose due to hearing issues). Weekly Erbitux started 6/27/07 completed 8/6/07.
mhupe #98262 06-27-2009 01:53 PM
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Hi Elizabeth,

In my family we say noisy prayers...so I will add you to my noisy prayers list!!!


Suzanne
***********
T1 SCC on right side of tongue
Age 31...27 when diagnosed
4 partial glossectomies
No chemo or radiation
Biopsy on 2/2/10-Clear
Surgery needed again...no later than April 2011
Loving life and just became a mother on 11/25/10
It's not what we CAN'T do..it's what we CAN do:)
suzanne98 #98502 06-30-2009 11:45 PM
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Hi Elizabeth,

Hope my well wishes for a smooth and steady recovery reach you soon after your surgery. I'm thinking positive thoughts and sending prayers your way, today, on your surgery day. I hope you'll find strength in knowing that there are many of us out here supporting you in ways you may never be aware of!

I'm a newbie too and found your post and all of the replies very educational:) It really gave me an insight into the diversity of our members and the gift of knowledge that can come from differing views and experiences. You all make me feel right at home...an extension of my family!

I'll follow your lead, Elizabeth, with a proper introduction after I have a little more info to share. It's nice to know that I'm in such good company as a new member!

justb #98504 07-01-2009 04:09 AM
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Justb, welcome to our home away from home. We all live here for the comfort and warmth that is always on the post. I Have n=been here over 2 years and at times I just come and read thru the posts to make myself feel better. There are some very intelligemt people here and vene the dumber ones like me can make semse or help someone else at times. Nothing posted is too trivial . If you think it or wonder it, put it into words. Again, welcome.


Since posting this. UPMC, Pittsburgh, Oct 2011 until Jan. I averaged about 2 to 3 surgeries a week there. w Can't have jaw made as bone is deteroriating steaily that is left in jaw. Mersa is to blame. Feeding tube . Had trach for 4mos. Got it out April.
--- Passed away 5/14/14, will be greatly missed by everyone here
EzJim #98541 07-01-2009 12:13 PM
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Hello justb from my old stomping grounds. Ilived in Ventura for 5 years in the early 70's and graduated from Ventura College. (Majored in playing Frisbee in the free speech area, lol). Drove through there a couple years ago, man has that place changed.


David R. 65 yr old male non-smoker, light drinker, stage 3 or 4, depending on which doc you ask, scc rt. tonsil, 2 nodes, 7 weeks radiation and chemo. No surgery. Teatment ended 3/20/08. PET scan 8/08 showed no cancer.
And now, as of oct, 2010, caregiver to wife, Linda, with breast cancer.
May, 2013, Linda diagnosed with stage 3 ovarian cancer. Enuf already.
Deejer47 #98609 07-02-2009 05:03 PM
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Hi Elizabeth,

I've been off the boards for a while but I did want to let you know I understand perfectly your confidence in the doctors at MDACC. I was and continued to be treated there and know they are a thorough and top notch facility. I had a partial glossectomy and went under knowing a RD was a distinct possibility but the decision would be made after redacting the tumor...as it turns out it wasn't necessary, but I was comfortable knowing the team would make the best decision for my life. I've been cancer free now for a little over 2 years and I don't regret one moment of heading to MDACC and heeding there advice and expertise. Hope you have an equally good outcome.


Cancer of Tongue, SCC early Stage 1, Dx 3/13/07, partial glossectomy 4/14/07 found no residual carcinoma and a granular cell tumor with pseudo epitheliomatous hyperplasia.
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