Hi Mandi!

The last paragraph of your original post jumped out at me. (Not wanting your 10 & 12 yr. old boys seeing their father taken away, etc.) My mother had to do this with my father and at the time I was 10 yrs. old. I must admit that I have a VERY vivid and disturbing memory of that day (seeing Dad being taken away by the police/first aid squad on a stretcher). However, it was the BEST thing that could have possibly happened!!! Thankfully that was the last day he EVER had a drop of alcohol in his body.

My mother joined a Alanon group and I went to Alatine (sp?). It was a great experience and really helped me mentally. So like the others, I would highly recommend that, for you and your children.

I would just like to reiterate that I am not saying you should take such drastic measures. Only in my experience, that it worked and although it was a "spectacle", the postive BY FAR outweighed the negative. For the past 14 yrs. I have been incredibly lucky and blessed with the most caring and loving father (a COMPLETE 180 from the father I knew as an alcoholic). I often think what our (my family) lives would have been like if my mother didn't make the call that night. Just something to think about.

I wish you the very best and if you would ever like to talk, please feel free to email me!

Mandi,

My story is the opposite of Diana's. My Mom never called the cops on my Dad, but I wished she would have. Yes, it would be hard for your boys to see Dennis taken away in cuffs, but it has to be difficult for them to see him the way he is now. I wasn't much older than your boys when my most fervent wish was for my Mom to take us kids and leave my Dad. Although I get along okay with my Mom, I will always harbor a certain amount of resentment toward her because she allowed us to be subjected to his alcoholic tantrums. I realize your situation may not be as bad, but if Dennis doesn't get help, it will probably get worse. You may not be able to make Dennis change, but going to Alanon is the first step in helping yourself and your boys.

My heart goes out to you. Living with an alcoholic is hard, and having your children subjected to it makes it even harder. I hope you all get the help you need to get through this. It is such a tragedy that your family has survived cancer, but may be torn apart by alcohol. If you think it will do any good (unfortunately, it probably won't), you can tell Dennis how I absolutely hated my father for what he put us through. I wanted to get away so bad that I left home on the night of my high school graduation and didn't see my Dad again for several years. If it wouldn't have been for an interfering aunt, I might never have seen him again, And truly, I wouldn't have regretted it if I hadn't. I know that sounds terrible, but that is what alcoholism does to families. At least I can say that in later years I no longer hated my Dad, but I still didn't like him and certainly never loved him. I didn't grieve when he died, didn't cry at his funeral and don't miss him in the least. I would hate for this to happen with your boys. I'm sorry I wrote so much, but I'm sure you can tell this hits very close to home for me. Especially since my son, daughter and their partners all drink too much. Heather was the only one who didn't drink excessively. Didn't drink, didn't smoke, but she's gone. And the smokers and drinkers are still smoking and drinking even after watching her suffer so. Now I'm getting off track. Take care and I wish you the best.

Rainbows & hugs,
Rosie

This is what baffles me the most. Dennis' father was a severe alcoholic. Dennis' earliest memories are of being 8 years old, and his Dad taking him to the bar and buying him a soda for each beer that his dad drank. This was so common, that there was not many nights that Dennis didn't drink 12 sodas or more. In his Dad's infinite wisdom, it would be ok if he drank with his kid in tow.

It landed Dennis in the bed for over two weeks with a severe kidney disorder. In those days, they explained that he had actual sugar crystals in his blood from all the soda. I can't vouch for this claim, I've never searched it, but it sounds reasonable. Dennis has told me for years, how much he hated his real father for that, and the many nights that the barmaids would drive him home because they were afraid for him to ride home with his dad.

Why, in the name of God, is he putting his kids through the same hell? Believe me, I've asked, but he gets defensive and tells me to leave his real Dad out of this. On the other hand, he had a wonderful step-father that came into his life at age 13 that he adored. This man was very upstanding, took care of Dennis and his sister, along with the mother, and loved them dearly until he died in '88. Instead of drawing on the positive, Dennis seems to be drawn into his real father's genes. He, by the way, died at the age of 62 after fighting diabetes, losing both his sight and legs.

To make matters worse, I've talked to my husband's sister (only sibling) many times about this and she has even been up here to talk to Dennis, but it always ends up with them drinking beer and rehashing old crap until they pass out. Her advice...."He needs to learn how to have a few beers and then go to bed". When I question her in the least, I'm the one who feels at fault. I need to be "more understanding.........make sure he eats properly..........gets enough sleep at night...." All the while she is guzzling her nightly 6-pack.

I'm sorry...........whew.........how's that for showing the dirty laundry? I feel so much more at home here now. My mother was my rock, and now that she is gone,....well, I guess I rant to you guys.

Thank you so much for the positive vibes. I do feel them, and I will keep you updated.

Love Always,
Mandi

Dear Mandi,

You have more friends and supportors on this forum than you know. We all have dirty laundry in the closet that we had no control over. You are not alone. Whatever decision you make I know there will be allot of us supporting you and your boys. It may be the hardest decision you will ever make but it's your decision. Do what your gut is telling you to do!!! Your first instinct is usally correct. Dennis will thank you when it's all over. And I hope and pray he returns to the old Dennis. For you and the boys to continue to live with Dennis in his present condition is not fair to you or the boys.
My father (if you can call him one) walked out on my mother and seven kids in 1962, I was 12 years old. He was not a drinker and they didn't fight. One day we got home from school and he was gone. I have seen him twice since 1962 and not for the last 30 years. My Mother was a housewife and she ended up running the municpal golf cource resturant for about 10 years. My sisters and brothers and I all pitched in and we made it. The bastard father rarely sent child support as he moved west and remarried.
Everyone of my brothers and sisters have very strong work ethics and learned early on if you want something you have to work for it. Nothing in life is free!! I don't love my father and I don't hate him. To me he is nothing. It shows the true character of a man who could do what he did.
Thankfully none of my brothers or sisters inherited any of his traits. Sorry for getting off your original post but I wanted you to know that a strong woman such as yourself will survive. My prayers are with you and whatever decision you make you will have my best wishes!!!

Your Friend, Daniel

Hi Mandi, I am actually a lay Christian counselour but have been an active AA member for the past 8 years and have secretaried and chaired many AA meetings. I was also a facilitator in a substance abuse recovery ministry for over 4 years.

The best thing you can do is to set appropriate boundaries for yourself. Instead of issuing threats, ultimatums, etc., which will NOT work, you can decide at what point his behavior is unacceptable to you and take action for yourself. It is always better to give choices. For example, "you can drink if you wish but I am taking the children and staying at mom's house until you are sober".

Having ANY discussion while he is under the influence is folly and a waste of time. It's always ok to share your feelings.

His sister drinks alcoholicly as well. Normal people don't "guzzle a nightly six pack". She is drinking "for the effect".

Dennis is living proof of the "sins of the father". Your children are at great risk of carrying the legacy if the cycle is not broken.

The disease of alcoholism is the only one that you know full well the consequences yet can't stop. Let's face it - the guy gets a potentially lethal disease, most likely from using/abusing tobacco/alcohol, gos through a relatively horrific treatment protocol, then drinks even more - classic denial, alcoholic behavior. Having a life threatening disease is also a great excuse for a "pity party" also (not that any of us NEEDED a reason to get drunk).

Alcoholics are masters at making everyone else be responsible for them. After all his drinking is YOUR problem - not his. I have heard more than one person say, "I don't have relationships, I take hostages", Are you the hostage? These are the hard questions you have to ask yourself. Another thing you will learn in Alanon is that rescuing and codependent behavior actually exacerbate the situation.

Some people have success with interventions. You may run into people in Alanon who have gone that route.

Alcoholism is a disease about life and death - just like cancer. I see many parallels between the two. The program has helped me to cope with cancer and not have to drink over it. And I've had some pretty shitty days during Tx.

Mandi,

I had to sit back and re-read the string of posts several times before I decided to write this.It amazes me how we all feel that we suffer in the dark alone whan there are so many people suffering the same injustice everday.I will not go in to my story about my alcoholic father because it so mirrors Rosie's life it would be repetitive.Her situation and mine are so similar that it gave me the shivers.I do have some differences though.I am the youngest of 5 children,and not one of us drinks or smokes.We were so traumitized by what he had put us through that the smell of alcohol makes me ill.I can't be in the room with drunks nor do I tolerate them.We also begged my mother to leave my father so we could live like "normal" families.Since your involved with his illness at the same time it has to be difficult but I wouldn't tolerate the drinking in excess.I, like Rosie to this day harbor many ill feelings toward my mother for not getting us away from him soon enough.She waited until I was 16 years old and the last one home and by then the damage was all done.My father is still alive and living somewhere in California by himself,he has never seen my children and I haven't spoken to him in 19 years.I understand he quit drinking 10 years ago but I still can't forget.I wish you all the luck in the world with the massive load that is on your shoulders and I hope you can come to a peaceful conclusion for you all.If you ever need to talk or anything please let me know.My heart aches for you and your family.


Patty

Mandi,
Patty's wrong about one thing: "I wouldn't tolerate the drinking in excess". If he is truly an alcoholic than ONE DRINK is too many and one hundred is not enough. Total abstinence is the only solution.

And once again, he has to WANT recovery. Your tolerance level has nothing to do with that. HE has to be willing to go to any lengths to find recovery.

Gary,
I attempted to give her my views on her situation not the solution.I have many experiences growing up in an alcoholic family,but I defer to you because I am not an expert.There is no quick fix for what Mandi is encountering right now.I'm sure there are many people who want their loved ones to straighten themselves out quickly,but most of the time it doesn't happen that way.I'm sure Mandi will do what is best for her family.

Patty

As an RN, who`s worked in the field of addiction,alcoholism is a recognised disease with a set of symptoms, it is not a moral issue. I have found that many alcoholics have underlying mental health issues that they are self medicating. This being the case, family members not doing everything possible to get them help is a moral issue. Unfortunately, so many family members are co-dependent and feed off the alcoholic`s needs. As long as we look at alcoholism as a weakness as opposed to a disease, we`re all going to remain in the dark ages about this............Dee

Thanks, Dee. As an alcoholic AND an RN, I was in denial for years about my disease. Once I accepted that I had a disease I didn't feel so guilty and was able to face the fact that something had to be done (AA for me). Denial is the biggest symptom tho and a hard one to overcome. Making that call to AA was the hardest thing I had ever done...going to first mtg was hard but Lo and Behold........Lots of folks just like me. Don't want to venture too far afield here but I could never have dealt with cancer if I were still practicing. He needs support but decision comes from him.