| Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 6 "OCF Down Under" Member | OP "OCF Down Under" Member Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 6 | Ok -- got my results back from ultrasound. It said: there are a couple of prominent submental lymph nodes, the largest measuring 7mm in short axis diameter. They maintain normal fatty hilum and hilar vascularity, and may reflect a small reactive node.
Is a 7mm node too small to biopsy? | | | | Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,606 Likes: 2 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,606 Likes: 2 | No. Did you review the results with the doctor and mutually agree on the next steps?
If you can, use the Search function. There's tons of posts about sizes of nodes for FNA's. That's the true diagnostic tool.
Good luck.
SCC Stage IV, BOT, T2N2bM0 Cisplatin/5FU x 3, 40 days radiation Diagnosis 07/21/03 tx completed 10/08/03 Post Radiation Lower Motor Neuron Syndrome 3/08. Cervical Spinal Stenosis 01/11 Cervical Myelitis 09/12 Thoracic Paraplegia 10/12 Dysautonomia 11/12 Hospice care 09/12-01/13. COPD 01/14 Intermittent CHF 6/15 Feeding tube NPO 03/16 VFI 12/2016 ORN 12/2017 Cardiac Event 06/2018 Bilateral VFI 01/2021 Thoracotomy Bilobectomy 01/2022 Bilateral VFI 05/2022 Total Laryngectomy 01/2023
| | | | Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,918 Likes: 66 OCF Founder Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | OCF Founder Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,918 Likes: 66 | Not if it can easily be felt by the doctor doing the biopsy for a fine needle biopsy. If it can't be felt, someone would have to do an incisional biopsy and removal of the whole things, and in the absence of other examinations, tests and opinions that yielded compelling information to indicate this might be cancer, that seems too invasive an idea for something.
Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant. | | | | Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,606 Likes: 2 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,606 Likes: 2 | Brian, would the doctors be able to hold a 7 mm node in place for a FNA biopsy? For my 4 mm submental node, we went with an image guided FNA. That seemed a better choice than the invasive incisional biopsy we first talked about. They even wanted to split the jaw and harvest more to be safe. I wasn't physically up to that.
SCC Stage IV, BOT, T2N2bM0 Cisplatin/5FU x 3, 40 days radiation Diagnosis 07/21/03 tx completed 10/08/03 Post Radiation Lower Motor Neuron Syndrome 3/08. Cervical Spinal Stenosis 01/11 Cervical Myelitis 09/12 Thoracic Paraplegia 10/12 Dysautonomia 11/12 Hospice care 09/12-01/13. COPD 01/14 Intermittent CHF 6/15 Feeding tube NPO 03/16 VFI 12/2016 ORN 12/2017 Cardiac Event 06/2018 Bilateral VFI 01/2021 Thoracotomy Bilobectomy 01/2022 Bilateral VFI 05/2022 Total Laryngectomy 01/2023
| | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 4 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 4 | I had about 10 successful FNAB's for suspected neck nodes, some palpable, some not, and as small as 3mm, all being done under ultrasound guidance. I guess it depends on the experience of the doctor too, and all mine were done by a pathologist.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil 11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp 01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks 06/11 30 HBO 08/11 RND PNI 06/12 SND PNI LVI 08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy 10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux 10/13 SND 10/13 TBO/Angiograph 10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI 12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo 11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO 03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN 09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy 04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site 06/17 Heart Attack Stent 02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) | "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 | Mine was 42mm and they used ultrasound guidance. I cant imagine why they wouldn't use ultrasound guidance for every FNA?
Y&W 2 months is too long to be "slightly concerned". If he doesn't know by now what it is, or what the next step is to investigate what it is, its time to go to a major town with a better doctor.
Remember what I said about coping with long periods of uncertainty during the diagnosis? Well I didn't mean wait this long! Anyway its up to you how you want to handle it, I'm sure we're not getting the full picture of what the doctor is thinking.
Hopefully you're in your second month as a non smoker? If you need reminding how important that is, have a look at our signatures. Cancer isn't a lottery, and once you have it you don't quietly fade out in a morphine haze. Whether you survive or not no one gets an easy ride. Cheers, Dave (OzMojo) 19Feb2014 Diagnosed T2N2bM0 P16+ve SCC Tonsil. 31Mar2014 2 Cisplatin, 70gy over 7 weeks (completed 16May2014) 11August2014 PET/CT clear. 17July2019 5 years NED.
| | | | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,293 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,293 Likes: 1 | [quote] I cant imagine why they wouldn't use ultrasound guidance for every FNA?[/quote]Even for large node tumors? My neck node was clearly visible and the ENT did the FNA without any extra equipment. It came back positive and later I had a full biopsy under general but that was later.
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | | | Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) | "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 | I suppose if it was sticking out of your neck it would be hard to miss! Mine was the size of a golf ball but it was deep in my neck. Cheers, Dave (OzMojo) 19Feb2014 Diagnosed T2N2bM0 P16+ve SCC Tonsil. 31Mar2014 2 Cisplatin, 70gy over 7 weeks (completed 16May2014) 11August2014 PET/CT clear. 17July2019 5 years NED.
| | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 4 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 4 | It could be used to check for other suspected nodes scanned during the same visit I would think, not just the one palpable. Ultra sound is good at identifying nodes, cheap, even better than PET/CT scans in some aspects.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil 11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp 01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks 06/11 30 HBO 08/11 RND PNI 06/12 SND PNI LVI 08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy 10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux 10/13 SND 10/13 TBO/Angiograph 10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI 12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo 11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO 03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN 09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy 04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site 06/17 Heart Attack Stent 02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | Joined: Nov 2014 Posts: 5 Member | Member Joined: Nov 2014 Posts: 5 | Relax as best you can, There are many many reasons for the growth you found. And stress is the worst thing you can do if it turns out it is cancer. Take a deep breath and be positive, But get in to see your ENT, Find a way to get there. Cab or a friend. And lean on someone to help with Dad. | | |
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