| Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 | It is indeed frustrating that our cancer gets misdiagnosed as sinus, infections, etc on a routine basis. It was six months before I had a CT scan that showed the tumor so I thought that Michael Douglas experience sounded pretty normal.
Unfortunately, missing head and neck cancer does not necessarily mean legally actionable malpractice. Even with the best of care, things can go wrong. Generally, to win a medical malpractice case, you must have expert medical testimony that no reasonable health care provider would have done what yours did. Reasonableness is generally determined by looking at what is reasonable care in view of the Available knowledge, Geographic location where care occurred and the state of medical practices at the time of the illness or injury.
I've been a lawyer for 37 years and even worked for a plaintiff's medical malpractice firm and knew I wouldn't have a case just because the doctors didn't diagnose my earache as base of tongue cancer immediately. It sucks, but it's true. Charm
65 yr Old Frack Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+ 2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG 2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery 25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Apaghia /G button 2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa 40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Passed away 4-29-13
| | | | Joined: May 2008 Posts: 551 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: May 2008 Posts: 551 | Charm,
I suspect that whole line of questions was fairly staged for the audience. All of these talk shows do 'pre-interviews' with the guests and I'll bet the two of them agreed on what points they were going to make about his staging and his treatment.
Stage IV SCC lt lateral tongue, surgery 5/19/08 (partial gloss/upper neck dissection left side/radial free flap reconstruction) IMRT w/weekly Cisplatin & Erbitux 6/30/08, PEG 1 6/12/08 - out 7/14 (in abdominal wall, not stomach), PEG 2 7/23/08 - out 11/20/08, Tx done 8/18/08 Second SCC tumor, Stage 1, rt mobile tongue, removed 10/18/2016, right neck dissection 12/9/2016 Third SCC tumor, diagnosed, 4/19/2108, rt submandibular mass, HPV-, IMRT w/ weekly Cisplatin, 5/9 - 6/25/2018, PEG 3 5/31/2018
| | | | Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 711 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 711 | [quote=Charm2017]It is indeed frustrating that our cancer gets misdiagnosed as sinus, infections, etc on a routine basis. It was six months before I had a CT scan that showed the tumor so I thought that Michael Douglas experience sounded pretty normal.(quote)
Thanks to Brian, Megan and the OCF that hopefully is turning around. Keep up the great work. I watched the show last night and thought it was really well done. Talk show hosts have to presume that there are people in the audience who don't know these things so they ask questions that sometimes sound dumb. Letterman was also amazed how good M.D. looked after 1 week of trearments and of course I thought to myself "check back with him in about 5 weeks". Uncharitable thought, I know, most people have no 1st hand experience with the toll taken by these treatments.
David R. 65 yr old male non-smoker, light drinker, stage 3 or 4, depending on which doc you ask, scc rt. tonsil, 2 nodes, 7 weeks radiation and chemo. No surgery. Teatment ended 3/20/08. PET scan 8/08 showed no cancer. And now, as of oct, 2010, caregiver to wife, Linda, with breast cancer. May, 2013, Linda diagnosed with stage 3 ovarian cancer. Enuf already.
| | | | Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 | Margaret I thought of that which is why I hedged with the word "apparent" but didn't think it likely unless DL also arranged for the audience to audibly "gasp" at Stage IV. If it were the Colbert Report, I'd agree with you.  David Yep, I thought the same thing. I looked great my first week and even drove my wife out to a nice resturant immediately after leaving my 5th Radiation treatment and we both ate up a storm. I did notice the beginning of radiation dermatitis on his neck in rewatching the video. Charm 65 yr Old Frack Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+ 2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG 2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery 25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Apaghia /G button 2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa 40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Passed away 4-29-13
| | | | Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 Platinum Member (300+ posts) | Platinum Member (300+ posts) Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 307 | The one thing that struck me when I saw the interview was how thin MD already looks and its only been 1 week. I wonder if they have approached him about a peg tube?
And Charm I did notice the beginning of radiation dermatitis on his neck too. He is such a well known star....I hope his treatment and experience with this dreaded disease can help get the word out to even more people. I've always liked him as an actor, I sure hope he'll be able to beat this.
And I hope his wife will be supportive...it bothered me when I read that she can't stand to see him this tired. I'm hoping I took it the wrong way...but it didn't set well with me.
Shelley
Caregiver to husband Ron. Throat Cancer. Finished 35 radiation treatments on 11/21/04. 8/2/11 small lesion on lower gum, laser Procedure to remove. 3/6/12 Doc. removed another lesion on outside of his neck. Did a skin graft from his chest to replace the skin on his neck. Went to Heaven on 6/24/12.
| | | | Joined: May 2006 Posts: 137 Senior Member (100+ posts) | Senior Member (100+ posts) Joined: May 2006 Posts: 137 | I still felt ok after the first week of radiation. By the end of the third week, though, it was getting to me bigtime. Then the mouth sores started.....it was the longest six weks of my life.
Maybe radiation will be easier for him because they know exactly where the tumor is and can target it. He's in for an ordeal though, no doubt about it. I'm an 'unknown primary' so I think my radiation covered a larger area.
Does anyone know where he's being treated?
dx 2/13/06. modified radical neck dissection 3/9/06 multiple biopsies of upper airway and direct laryngoscopy. 1 of 47 lymph nodes positive for metastatic undifferentiated carcinoma (lymphoepithelioma). Unknown primary. Finished radiation 5/24/06.
| | | | Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 83 Supporting Member (50+ posts) | Supporting Member (50+ posts) Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 83 | [quote=RileyMc]Note that his cancer went undetected for months despite repeated doctor visits. This happens all too often and too many people have died as a result. Why is this not medical malpractice? Why are these 'doctors' allowed to continue their negligence without consequences? [/quote] Same here...6 different visits and an ER Dr that said I had a sinus infection...makes you wonder.
I hope they can take good care of Mr D and he can get rid of his cancer.
Stage 4b BOT and node on right of throat. did 38 trips of TOMO PEG tube,Cysplatin,Taxotere & 5fu 1st 4th and 7th week, changed to Erbitux for the last 4 weeks. 1st PETS since end of TX..CLEAR 6mos out and 2 nodes are hot. Bilateral neck dissection on 10/31/08. Clear Scan 3/31/09 & 8/02/2010
| | | | Joined: May 2008 Posts: 551 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: May 2008 Posts: 551 | Charm,
I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a gasp! Listening to some chatter about the interview on the radio, and also reading comments on websites, people seem to think a Stage IV staging means you're gonna die in a month or two! I wonder if people know how sick Lance Armstrong was when he started treatment!
And Shelley, his wife is apparently a chain smoker... I'll bet the whole thing doesn't sit too well with her, ya know??
- Margaret
Stage IV SCC lt lateral tongue, surgery 5/19/08 (partial gloss/upper neck dissection left side/radial free flap reconstruction) IMRT w/weekly Cisplatin & Erbitux 6/30/08, PEG 1 6/12/08 - out 7/14 (in abdominal wall, not stomach), PEG 2 7/23/08 - out 11/20/08, Tx done 8/18/08 Second SCC tumor, Stage 1, rt mobile tongue, removed 10/18/2016, right neck dissection 12/9/2016 Third SCC tumor, diagnosed, 4/19/2108, rt submandibular mass, HPV-, IMRT w/ weekly Cisplatin, 5/9 - 6/25/2018, PEG 3 5/31/2018
| | | | Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 201 Gold Member (200+ posts) | Gold Member (200+ posts) Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 201 | He's being treated at Sloan in NYC.
CG to Sister (42). Smoker quit @ diagnosis Dx 4/20/10 SCC T2N0M0, Rside of tongue Hemigloss R neck dis, all nodes removed 6/2/10, Trach and NG in, home 6/8/10,8/18/2010 start erbitux x6, 30 IMRT end 10/11/10 with only 3x erbitux due to reaction and one week off of rads 1/10/2011 Clear PET!!!
| | | | Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,082 | Wow. Great extra info. I found this Web MD article on MD's so called "throat cancer". MD Cancer WebMD Here is an excerpt. I can vouch that it is quite possible that MD's base of tongue cancer did not have any major symptoms until it's in Stage IV. At least this article mentions HPV. Wonder if MD had his tumor tested? [quote] What is throat cancer? Surprisingly, doctors don't use the term "throat cancer." Several different kinds of cancer can involve different parts of the throat and mouth. Michael Douglas says he has a walnut-sized tumor at the base of his tongue. If that's truly where his cancer started, he likely has oropharyngeal cancer. Oropharyngeal cancer may involve the base of the tongue, the tonsils and surrounding tissues, the soft palate, or the front and back walls of the throat. Doctors use the term "insidious" to describe base-of-tongue tumors. That's because there is no pain sensation at the base of the tongue, so the tumors can become quite advanced before symptoms appear.[/quote] Also glad I read thia article before I questioned his 80% figure as the doctors in this article thought that was correct [quote]Later stages are more problematic. Douglas says his doctors have diagnosed "late stage IV" cancer. "For the advanced stage IV cancers, it depends on the situation with the lymph nodes in the neck," Har-El says. "There is over a 60% chance of remission if it has not spread to the lymph nodes. But if it already has spread to the lymph nodes in the neck, the odds of remission are more like 40% or 30%." Douglas says his cancer has spread to his head and neck, but that his doctors say his odds of survival are 80%. Teknos says there's no reason to doubt this assessment. "We think he is still in the curable category, stage IVa," he says. "Of course we don't know, but his curability could be quite acceptable."[/quote] My doctors went with the 30 percent which was not pleasant news Charm 65 yr Old Frack Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+ 2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG 2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery 25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Apaghia /G button 2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa 40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin Passed away 4-29-13
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