Hi, Recently I saw a can of snuff ( a can is snuff right?) and I picked it up and read it, it said this product can cause Oral Cancer! Why do they not put that on cigarette packs? How would you ever get them to? It might cause a jolt to smokers. Maybe not, when people who knew me found out I had Cancer they quit or cut back and ran to their dentists to get checked, now years later they are back to smoking. You would think looking at me and knowing what I went thru would scare them more. Putting it on the pack might make them more alert to things going on in their mouth!

Are you kidding? I worked for the company that builds medical linear accelerators for radiation treatment (Siemens -Mevatron) and many people there smoked even though they actually SAW the consequences! Addiction is NOT cured by labels! Raise the price 5 bucks a pack -that'll cure some of 'em.

Sorry, I do not agree. Raising the price of a pack of cigarettes by $5.00 will only cause people to go without something else. Teens will find the money by other means etc. etc.
While on the topic of pricing cigarettes and I will throw in alcohol as well. I have always been confused by our governments (USA & Canadian) methods of trying to get people to quit. If they are so concerned about the damage smoking and drinking cause, why are they so content making a profit off of them? Here in Canada both Tobacco and Alcohol are highly taxed.
I do not think that the pictures they put on the packs and tins really bother to many smokers or people that want to smoke. Those pictures are rarely seen as most people keep their packs in a pocket or purse. "Out of sight out of mind." And if they do bother a person you can buy one that is more to your liking to cover the one on the pack. I have even heard people tell the clerk in the store, " No not that one I hate that picture."
David

Why don't we put a lable on football and baseball tickets that reads: The money you spent on this ticket is money you could have used to support finding cures for cancer.....or the money you spent on this expensive vacation could have been used to feed 100 starving people.

The fact is WE all are guilty of some crime against humanity. While we rail against something we should also stand in front of a mirror. I doubt we will ever eliminate bad behavior (I am not suggesting we stop trying either) but instead recognize the wide scope and range of bad behavior.

I have several very good friends whom continue to smoke away, in spite of their witnessing my trial with this disease. The fact that a good number of people live to a ripe old age after inhaling far more smoke than most, is personally a source of confusion.

Likewise why me, a God fearing believer that has never commited a crime above speeding, father of 3, still married nearly 20 years should have to deal with this and watch truly evil people live on and on will continually test my understanding.

I think it takes a variety of measures to reduce cigarette smoking. I would bet that the warning labels are the least effective. Have you looked at a common ladder lately, they have dozens of warning labels -everything has warning labels these days. It has diluted their effectiveness. Statistically, the number of smokers does decline when the price is raised. In California, in the SF Bay area 80% of the population is non-smoking Highest in the world). Reason: cost, education, health awareness and fitness conciousness. It also helps that the population here is among the best educated in the world. In my area they just passed an ordinance that you can't even smoke within 20' of a building. We have had smoke free public buildings, businesses, bars and restaurants for years now. Cigarette machines are illegal except in bars. Since ALL of us bear the health costs for those who refuse to modify their harmful health behaviours, it makes sense to raise the taxes on liquor and tobacco ("sin" tax). I personally am perplexed why the government just doesn't outright ban them but prohibition didn't work either and provided the foundation for organized crime to boot. And we don't want the government to be our "priest" either. I am not sure that I agree with Mark that "...WE all are guilty of some crime against humanity.", but I do believe that we are all flawed in varying degrees. Even the bible says that we are all born with original sin. Oddly we seem to treasure our vices inspite of the overwhelming evidence. 12 step programs can help.
I am happy to report that I quit smoking in 1976, drugs in 1986 and alcohol in 1995. I have tried my best to serve others, am a lay Christian counselour and active in various recovery and support groups. It's been said that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". So let me throw this out there -how would YOU correct this if you were the tobacco/substance abuse czar?

I stand corrected about the labels!
OTTAWA, Canada (CNN) -- Graphic warning labels on cigarette packages in Canada have been effective in discouraging smoking, according to a study by the Canadian Cancer Society.

Fifty-eight percent of smokers interviewed in the study said full-color pictures of how cancer affects the mouth, lungs, heart and brain had made them think more about the health effects of smoking.

The warnings were so effective that 44 percent of the smokers polled said the new warnings increased their motivation to quit smoking. And 38 percent of smokers who attempted to quit in 2001 said the new warnings were a factor in motivating them to try to quit.

The full-color, picture-based warnings cover half of the front and back of each package of cigarettes. They include pictures of a diseased mouth, a lung tumor, a brain after a stroke, a damaged heart, and a limp cigarette that warns of impotence. Warnings inside each package offer tips on quitting.

The warnings were launched about a year ago and replaced black-and-white text messages that covered about 35 percent of each package, similar to cigarette package warnings in the United States.

Full text: http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/09/canadian.cigarettes/

Hi, When I read Marks post, I am going "What pictures?" Gary answed that question, what great information! It does work, too bad we do not have that in the US.Garys also right about something else, last time I got a replacement PEG tube there were two Doctors doing it that day, after they finished one said to the other, Its real slow now lets go out for a smoke. I was more than a little suprised! It can't happen to me seems to be the idea even very well educated people have.

It doesn't get more graphic than this!

http://www.sptimes.com/News/61599/Floridian/He_wanted_you_to_know.shtml

But yet they say sales are up for cigarettes. So I am not sure how accurate that information is Gary.
In Saskatchewan where I am it is illegal for any retail outlet that offers cigarettes for sale to have them out in the open where a child may see them. This I find amusing as well. All they have done is increased the curiosity of the kids as to what lurks behind the curtains. And for those who have parents that do smoke they know what is behind all the curtains. Maybe they should put those descriptive pictures on the curtains as well to discourage people.
I'm not sure that your statement, "It also helps that the population here is among the best educated in the world" is not somewhat bias. I think there are well educated people all over the world and a lot of them smoke. There are ordinances in my area as well that make it illegal for you to smoke within 20' of certain buildings. We also have had smoke free public buildings, businesses, bars and restaurants for years and cigarette machines are usually only seen in bars. As far as the "Sin Tax" as you called it, would someone please tell me how much of that actually goes back to Cancer Research. I bet there is more going towards politicians than there is research.
David

I have owned a few convenience stores for 25 years. I can tell you that my sales have never dropped at any of my locations. Everytime we raise the price (because of a new tax), people say they are going to quit but I still see them everyday. I was a smoker from age 15 until age 40 and I can tell you quitting was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Now 5 years later, my husband (who never smoked) gets tounge cancer. I feel guilty everyday because I belive he got cancer because I smoked. I was still craving cigs a lot until my husband got sick, now the thought of cigs makes my stomach turn. I even tell my regular customers all the time that they should stop smoking (I am sure the company I have a franchise with would LOVE to hear that). These customers also know my husband and what he has been through and it doesnt effect them in the least. I know my businesses selling these cigs is not helping but this is all I know how to do , and I would loose my franchise if I stopped selling them. I think when people are ready they will quit. I also think no matter what anyone says or does is going to make someone want to quit, I know I was there.

Sorry folks, when I reread my post I realized several things that I typed had a different tone than I meant.

First, I used the word "you" in the generic sense as in "we" (I did not mean anyone personally).

Second, I don't want it to seem that I support tobbaco. The picture idea is a great one!

Third, the "crimes" I commented on would be failure to act when others are in need. As an example: Prior to my diagnosis, I hardly gave a minute of my time to cancer reasearch or fundraising. It was something that happened to others.

The other comments are to remind myself that I must have better priorities. In the US we spend a huge amounts on things that have little effect on improving humanity. Collectively we in the US should be ashamed at what we are willing to spend our time and money on when compared to what we could be doing.

I try to present data as accurately as I can, without bias. It is a fact that only 20% of the population smokes here. The SF Bay Area is one of the most expensive and desireable places on earth to live (rivaled by Boston and Munich). We have Stanford Univ., UC Berkeley, UCSF (7th highest ranked (teaching/medical school/research)hospital in US and numerous State U's. This is a major research and development center because of close proximity to all of the universities. We also have Lawrence Berkeley and Livermore Labs, not to mention Sandia. Out of the 16,000 registered medical device manufacturers, 10,000 of them are in California with the majority in the SF Bay area. Then there's always Silicon Valley. Did you receive radiation? You were probably treated on a Varian or Siemens linear accelerator which are both manufactured here in the Bay Area.
Bias? The stuff about intelligent population I read in a report someplace (and I am not saying that we don't have our fair share of rude people, village idiots and Neanderthals) - Where is Hannibal Lector when you need him? He only eats the "free range rude").

Obviously something they are doing in California IS working to get people to quit smoking. I commend the Canadians for being ahead of us in their aggressiveness to eliminate smoking.

As far as the Canadian data I listed, contact CNN, I didn't make it up (the source was the Candian Cancer Society).

It all boils down to this, which many have re-iterated in this string - People who are addicted will go to any length to satisfy that addiction. They will do this in spite of knowing the consequences of their actions.

And as far as how we spend money. We are a market driven society (one of the by products of a free society) and as a result we have companies spending more money on Viagra and Minoxodil research than on basic cancer research (not that I agree with this).

So once again, let's get out of the problem and into the solution - how do you get people weaned off of tobacco products?

The solution is automatic; they wean themselves when they contract a terminal illness related to their use of tobbacco.

An interesting observation: does the same market driven economy insist on millions to be spent researching and developing expensive new machines to blast carcinomas when the same amount might have been spent on stopping people from ingesting or inhaling carcinogens to begin with?

From my chair, it seems people are only willing to spend large amounts when it has a potential to save their personal hide. (what is the average cost per RAD treatment). So it will be difficult to get them to change their bad habits until they have become life threatening. Much less try to change someone else's bad habits.

Further, from an economic standpoint, the industry that offers treatment options probably is not interested in preventing the behavior that causes cancer occurances and ultimately provides their economic life blood. (It would not be in the best interest of their stockholders)

(please reference my comment on crimes against humanity)

:rolleyes:

PS. I believe we can have success against this cancer by teaching early detection. Due to human nature (and my observations of tobbacco users) we will have a much harder if not impossible time getting them to stop their bad habits.

What you all fail to mention is the incestuous relationship between government and big tobacco. The government has no desire to regulate tobacco (It has been attempted many times by surgeon generals and the FDA, and has always been over ruled by congress and the senate.) It is big business that rules the roost in the US, be it oil, tobacco, or whatever. Tobacco causes billions of dollars in medical costs each year, including the lost product of those individuals with diseases related to its treatment. I won't even go into the cost in lives and emotional suffering. If the government subsidized real nicotine replacement alternatives (people are addicted to nicotine not tobacco) like they do tobacco, things would change overnight. Current nicotine replacement products have been forced to have lower levels than tobacco, because people can become addicted to nicotine in patch, inhaler, and other forms. How ironic that our government will regulate this but not the higher nicotine content and carcinogen containing tobacco. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin. In the end for both our government, our representatives in it, and the tobacco companies, it is all about $$$, not about people.

"The love of money is the root of all evil"

Nothing like government to make a bad thing worse.

hi,

i can't spell, but here goes anyway.

the lary-jecto-me group in this area goes out and talks to groups, especially high school kids. the guys tell me that the students really pay attention during the presentation/discussion.

does it reduce smoking? who knows. but they think it is an effecive way to help folks make intellegent choices.

cu,
larryb

How `bout we put my picture up on posters, it scared my whole family away..........Just my face might be a scare a smoker........sounds like I`m joking but I`m not.........if it saves a life it`s worth it.......packer

HI

Hope you don't mind me resserecting this topic.
In the UK the campaigns about the links with smoking and cancer are heavy and shocking.
On all the cigarrette packets in big black bold letters you get messages like 'Smoking will kill you' 'Smoking gives you cancer' and on top of that the adverts on the tv showing real lung cancer victims not being able to breathe properly etc, are horrifying. There was an advert where a bunch of smokers were sitting around a table puffing away and real fat from a lung of a smoker was shown oozing out their cigarrettes. These adverts are on the television all the time and are hard hitting. There is nothing nice about them they are to the point. Its also in magazines, on billboards and still people in the UK smoke! Nearly everyone you see is smoking. Lung cancer is the biggest disease related threat to young women in the UK at the moment and still people smoke. Its unbelievable.
Smoking is a drug so incredibly adictive and so difficult to break the habit but you would think with these very frank hard hitting campaigns, people would think twice before lighting up a cigarrette.

Just saw an anti-smoking advert on a Phillipine station. Guy siting in a room puts a cigarette in his mouth, lights up, you hear a gunshot, and see his brains splatter on the wall behing him.

Pretty shocking, pretty graphic. Narration was in Tagolog so I don't know what it said, but I got the idea.

I wonder how many actors turned down that part!

I just read that Australia will be the next country to use very graphic images of very disfigured people on their cigarette packages. If it works to keep people from starting that is great. But for those with a severe physical addiction to nicotine, they will do little more than create anxiety and guilt. Some people just can't quit. We really need the use of medical nicotine sprays by Rx become a more common solution for these people.

My friend who is giving me fantastic support through all this, still can not stop smoking, her addiction is in the light of her own emphysema.. No way would I ever critisise but my god I worry..
Sunshine... love and hugs
Helen

Helen,
I have a friend just like yours. It breaks my heart to see her smoke. I thought when she saw I almost died that would do it, but it didn't. It is so sad to be so addicted to something like that. Mary Lee

Actually if you are a non US smoker where they have the graphic images on the packs (like the UK for instance) there are stick on labels available to cover them up. See: http://www.fakefags.co.uk/

Here's a link to an interesting study or warning label effectiveness from Stanford: http://prevention.stanford.edu/research/publications/detail.asp?438

Here's another one from NCI:
http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/grants/abstract.asp?ApplID=6621687

Brian's right - some people just can't quit. I had a second class petty officer friend in the navy (who was a chain smoker) tell me once "Anybody can quit smoking -it takes a man to die of cancer". I'll bet money that he inevitably proved his manliness!

Like Helen's friend my sister died of lung cancer (inspite of her being treated at MD Anderson) and emphysema. She smoked right up until her pre-death coma.

My mother smoked for years (about 50) and even when diagnosed with terminal ovarian cancer, her doctors still scolded her for smoking. She used to smile and say,"Do you think it'll kill me?" and they usually dropped it.

Ed

Here's some interesting links for you from UCSF about smoking and second hand smoke:

http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/cache/news/200405263.html

and also:

http://pub.ucsf.edu/newsservices/releases/200405284/

Try this one too:
http://tobaccowall.ucsf.edu/

An expanded list of celebrities and other famous people who died from smoking related illness:
http://www.tobacco.org/resources/misc/losses.html