Did anyone manage to follow an anti-cancer diet during treatment? I'd like to minimize dairy and avoid meat and added sugar. I'm not sure how realistic that will be when calorie- and protein-dense liquids are all I can manage.
Just to be totally contrary by the way, I plan a blow-out at the best steak joint in the City before treatment.
Trismus will have me cutting my filet into itsy bits, and it will take me 2 hours to eat, but I'll wash it down with a fine Pinot and no regrets.
No. I could not eat for many months in the hospital. and was just on IV due to dysphasia, thrush, trismus, face, mouth and digestive tract burns, and lost 110lbs. Then was on a peg for another 10 months or so, and all that was just from chemo, which effects were worse than radiation. I could not eat many foods, most which nauseated me, burned my mouth, made me vomit, choke.
I follow no diet, but most my food is homemade, fresh. and I was just happy to eat and Taste food, which is extensive now, and was able to gain back 60 of the 110 pounds I lost in a few weeks, like two, but took me almost 4 years todo that. When doing treatment, it's best to advise with a nutritionist, dietician before dieting due to all tithe extra nutrients needed, including water, protein. so you don't want to be deficient in any, and it may not be the best time, unless something is dangerous like drinking, smoking, something too much excess. Just eat healthy in portion size controls for you based on the calculations of height, weight, BMI. Stomach, wrist measurement.
I'm with you on the steak! I had a 16oz ribeye, creamed spinach, garlic and sour cream, mashed potatoes, which I cooked, when I was leaving for treatment the next day.
The things you mentioned, lactic acid, sugar, are reportedly mentioned by some places as causing cancers, but is untrue, according to major medical centers and groups.
I'm a vegetarian and lay very low on dairy too - I eat minimal sugar and flour..
During treatment, chem-rads, I went to a heavy protein diet using whey protein powder and making many protein shakes and drinks. This worked especially well when the radiation side effects started putting the hurt on eating orally. don
Excessive protein can cause a hardship on the organs, especially the kidneys, which has to eliminate the ketones in the urine, and can also cause dehydration from the frequency, so that should be watched. I say adequate protein based on your needs, and excess nutrients also feeds cancer, so I say adequate with that too, which differs in everyone.
It can be hard on you - during treatment though you need extra protein. I am a veg head so I have a protein power shake in the morning and that way I am good to go if I don't get enough in my regular meals...
You will know when you have too much protein. The pancreas will have problems too. Extra protein is good but some type of exercise or motion keeps muscles feeding off it. For strenuous activity 1 gm/1lb of body weight. For little or none half that max.
Lipids are an important piece in nerve function. Lack of lipids creates more neuropathies. Things Ike avocados gives good lipids and lots of potassium which helps nerves after trauma. Nut butters in your smoothies, too. Vegan is good if you balance protein and potassium and carbs during treatment. I believe you will feel better and heal better.
Give me that ribeye though. Good red juicy meat!i Gave away my grill and buy 10 pounds of corn fed shaved choice ribeye in 1 lb packages. Cheesesteaks, Shabu-Shabu, sukiyaki, guy-don...all beef dishes.
[quote]Give me that ribeye though. Good red juicy meat!i Gave away my grill and buy 10 pounds of corn fed shaved choice ribeye in 1 lb packages. Cheesesteaks, Shabu-Shabu, sukiyaki, guy-don...all beef dishes.[/quote]Dude, You are the man! We gotta swap sukiyaki sauce recipes. :-)
And gotta love that quality thin sliced ribeye - go protein - go fat. hey you only live once.
As to the protein supplement. In practice, it is quite hard to get anywhere near a gram per pound daily. Even half that is like 3-4 ounces of protein powder. And by the time you mix and dilute to go down smoothly, it is rarely an issue.
I only bring it up as the benefits of protein outweigh the potential of overdoing it. In fact, I can not recollect a single post where someone reported overdoing protein during tx or post-tx period. don
"Cheesesteaks"
I'm originally from Philly/S Jersey... Tony Luke's in S Philly... "da best!" cheesesteaks! Shaved rib eye cooked with a little extra virgin olive oil, so tender it almost melts in your mouth. Crystalline jewels of fried onions, real Italian sharp provolone that smells like your dad's stinky feet, all on a fresh baked Amoroso roll with a crust so crisp you can practically cut your mouth on it!
It can make even the dryest of dry mouth produce drool
Whenever I head up there to visit family I get my cheesesteak fix. Although I'll have to abstain from the hots on the side for now.
"T"
Okay, somehow this "anti-cancer nutrition" thread has devolved into the Cattlemen's Recipe Exchange.
I only eat red meat on Sundays and that's when I charcoal grill 2 1 lb Ribeyes with tons of marbling for my wife and I. I eat all of mine and she ends up sharing hers with Buddy and Lamont our 2 85 lb rescue Pit mixes.
Hmmm, this crowd does like its ribeyes!
Cheryl, what shake/smoothie ingredients did you use during treatment? I am looking at hemp powder for protein. Did you use a particular powder? My hope is to transition to an anti-cancer diet long-term. I've been moving in that direction the last few weeks and definitely feel better.
I'm not saying low protein or high protein, but adequate for the persons situation, and calculations, which could be low or normal protein intake, like when already having chronic kidney disease or high intake during illness, healing, exercise. Some may take a suggestion to eat high protein to be sky's the limit, the same with nutition, when excess feeds cancer, so they say, but at the same time, some may need to gain weight on a doctors advise, and just mentioning the other side of the coin, and to look into your needs. Treatment can also compromise kidney function (creatine, GFR) temporarily, and sometimes permanently, and excessive intake of protein can cause other problems with that, breakdown, dehydration, which is already common with Tx. One of the symptoms of protein toxicity, is nausea and vomiting, and ammonia smell. I may have had protein toxicity, i belived so back in '88, from heavy intake of proteins causing an ammonia smell, and ever since, I tried not to take in as much protein. Funny Ed mentioned the pancreas, and years later I developed diabetes, which I thought was related to high protein, exercise, but anyway, diabetes can be related to the pancreas, and now have chronic stage 4 chronic kidney disease from chemo, probably diabetes didn't help. Once the kidneys are damaged, the kidneys usually don't repair itself. unless it's from acute kidney failure, but it's compromise deteriorates your health, and survival.
All comments posted here are never to be taken as gospel. Every person is unique and every case is unique and the combination makes each patient's journey unique and needs to be evaluated, assessed, and treated based on that specific uniqueness.
If we can no longer post generalities, commonly observed experiences, and needing to qualify every comment for every possible condition and exception, then you may as well just shut down the forum.
Generally speaking, cheesesteaks aside, a healthy low fat diet, one with a good balance of protein, low glycemic carbs, vegetables, fruit, etc. is good for us but seldom followed (raises hand). It makes sense that such a diet is beneficial to our bodies regardless of cancer.
Logically, after cancer, when our systems have been compromised, eating the right foods can aid with our own healing powers and immune systems. There have been some recent studies, albeit small, of diet and cancer. I'm glad to see the medical community looking into this subject. I'm all for healthy eating but knowing how indiscriminate cancer is, I believe diet alone cannot influence the beast one way or another.
We should all try to eat healthy, regardless of cancer. Perhaps it's the wording. Anti cancer? What about "anti bad health"?
"T"
I agree, Don. You should follow your own rules, and don't ask for any studies, peer reviews, proof of anything or argue an opinion, which you often do. FYI, my comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, it could have been anyone, and it was just the words, "eat high protein", which is often posted, and most likely true, important, and I agree with, but maybe not for everyone or all the time, and amount may vary in everyone, at different times, and should be calculated, and just bringing out that information and the "cons" of doing so, especially that it may increase dehydration, so one should look into that. In your post it was "Heavy Protein" which sounded more than high? Ed mentioned an amount while heavy exercising, 1gram of protein for every pound of body weight, which is not often mentioned, along with eat high protein, and think the amount is important, different in everyone, Half that, If moderate or none, etc. The FDA daily requirement amount is different to. I have seen numbers for cancer patients and recovery from surgery more towards the 1 to 1, but don't recall exactly off hand. This wasn't the first time I mentioned it on other posts, so don't take it personally.
I have a 400 lb very short aunt that eats fast foods primarily. Her cholesterol is 125, triglycerides 90. It is more proof that every one of us are unique. Monitoring cholesterol and bp is a good thing for anyone to do as it shows how the body is processing things. What I call "lifestyle" drugs to help these only makes the problem with a crutch, in my opinion. Aerobic exercise is not always possible but helps as does high fiber...as does protein, provided the body processes it well. After chemo and radiation almost all rules became confusing as the body is in a fight for life trying to figure out what that toxicity introduced really is and how to regulate it while protecting the body.
I think all of us (hand raised very high) determines what works best for us and wants others to do it too since it worked. The point of sharing this is to merely give a starting point to which we should adjust based on blood tests and personal experiences. If I can sit down and shut up about water...we should all not take it personally! What works for one may not work for any let alone all.
If I challenge you on something it is not to say you are wrong or I am right. It is to say check this out, try and find a way to measure it and keep on keeping on.
I have had many friends get into some type of weight training at a later point in life and in the 80's it was all about protein. I saw many of them with pancreatitis because they were having protein shakes in excess. Most of them are diabetic, Type I or II and some have gone from pancreatic cancer. Was it the whey? We will never know. They should have had blood tests done to measure digestive enzymes earlier. That much I believe but I will never know. Excess bile, abdominal pain in the center or upper right quadrant are signs something is wrong with the liver, pancreas or gall bladder.
Just find what works, find a measurement and keep doing what improves your health.
Ed
Cheesteaks do rule, too, by the way!
I have my own creation...the Seoul Cheesteak! I marinate shaved ribeye in kalbi (Korean BBQ) then I caramelized onions in olive oil or coconut oil, add some jalape�os for the bell pepper taste, add in some sliced button mushrooms and then the beef with stinky feet provolone on top. I had to quit toasting the buns because toast collects in the throat pockets and the choking while eating becomes a choking all day afterwards. I scoop it on and enjoy the heck out of.
I saw on TV a study about walking 15 minutes after meals to prevent diabetes and to process fats and carbs better so I do that after 2 ribeye sammies. Don't know if it works but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Don, I try and healthify my sukiyaki too. I switch to tofu shirataki instead of yam threads for a tad more protein and less carbs, low sodium soy for my wife and I use organic raw eggs to dip the stuff in...Japanese style! I use the family tradition of at least 5 green leafy veggies too. For all red meat our rule is green leafy veggies with the meal.
Soy protein....the "imitation estrogen". Men should limit soy protein as it reduces testosterone production. I used to make my own tofu so I knew what goes into it and I used the pulp to create my own okara burgers. As my energy grows I may have to go back to that.
Gotta go...eat now! YUMMY!
Well that long winded post disappearing sucks! Maybe I will reconstruct later. I guess I used up my verbiage for the day.
Cheesesteaks rule! My version uses kalbi (Korean BBQ) marinade. I caramelize the onions in olive oil or coconut oil, add in some jalape�os for the bell pepper flavor, the marinated ribeye and after cooking I add some stinky feet provolone. I stopped toasting the bun since the dry toast makes my coughing during the meal an all day event with chunks of bread crumbs coming nonstop. I call it the Seoul Cheesesteak.
I saw on national news some studies that said walking 15 minutes uses after eating fat foods or high starch foods helps the body prevent Type II and maybe Type I diabetes. I figure it must balance the sins!
Don, I healthify my sukiyaki by replacing the shirataki with a tofu version. Our Japanese family tradition is to add a minimum of 5 green leafy veggies to it too. Our rule is all red meat should be followed with green leafy veggies. I used to make my own tofu so I know what goes in it. I use the leftover pulp to make my version of okara burgers with carrots, onions and spices.
I try to limit soy proteins because of the "imitation estrogen" effect on males. It effectively lowers testosterone.
Ideally, people would have the opportunity to consult a nutritionist and plan a diet tailored to their individual needs.
I don't think diet alone can thwart the beast....but I believe it can influence it. At a minimum, going into the fight healthier gives you a better chance of completing treatment. Beyond that, there's plenty of evidence that diet influences a number of cancers, even if not HNC in particular (so far). Our bodies have demonstrated a climate hospitable to cancer, and diet, stress and exercise are factors we can control that have the potential to roll up the welcome mat, or at least lock the screen door.
I'm just learning about all this, but I personally find the studies purporting that diet can affect cancer compelling. In particular, it makes sense to me that reducing oxidative stress and inflammation can help my body fight off cancer. That's why I'm wondering specifically about an anti-cancer diet, as opposed to a generally healthy diet. Avoiding dairy, most meat and added sugar is a HUGE lifestyle change here at Chez Mama.... but then cancer is the biggest motivator I've ever had. I will also admit that it comforts me to think there are factors I can control.
I wish someone would come out with a study proving beer helps keep cancer at bay.
David, I authorize the beer study providing you can self-fund. Anxious to see the results of your study. Be sure and get lots of data please.
I saw my other blank post. I guess since the servers were changed we must have a limit now on number of words. I see them in preview the second one I watched post and even saw it. Very frustrating. iPad must not like the servers or vice-versa.
I must start right away! This may take years and years of diligent testing but I won't let anyone down.
[quote=Uptown]the beer study[/quote]
Four months post Tx I started my own study. 1st test was Sierra Nevada Kellerweis. No pain and an absolutely amazing taste. I had two just to be sure my data was accurate. A huge improvement in mood and spirit was aptly documented.
"T"
Hi Mama,
Here is a report that says eating raw garlic may help prevent lung cancer.
http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/6/7/711.abstract
Hey Mama... sorry just noticed this thread again!!
Hemp is good protein but it's not complete. I use 2 of 4 kinds. My favorite combination giving me apprx. 42 grams of protein is a mix of precision vegetarian protein (I buy the vanilla - but they have berry and unflavored too), and sunwarrior rice protein. (love the sunwarrior it is smooth not gritty like others can be.) Or I use progressive harmonized vegan protein, and the sunwarrior rice when I can`t find the precision. Sunwarrior just came out with a new protein that is a comprehensive complete protein, but I use it minimally because as a protein it`s quite expensive ($60) and requires double the usual one scoop to get the same amount of protein as the precision or progressive. Therefore it makes my smoothie super mucky and costs way more. (I`m finicky) The sunwarrior rice is 15 or 16 gms of protein but it`s one smaller scoop - and the precision or progessive is 24-26 gms in a scoop that`s just a little larger that the sunwarrior rice scoop. The rice mix is not cheap either (also $60) but it lasts a long time. Harmonized vegan, is about $29 but the tub is half the size of the precision which is either the same price or cheaper. So generally I do the precision and sunwarrior rice. I`ve tried a LOT of vegan proteins - I am wary of anything with sugar in it and all of these use stevia to sweeten.
The precision, progressive, and sunwarrior complete are a combination of hemp, chia, flax, rice, pea, cranberry some or all basically making them a complete protein. Usually I toss in flax seed (ground - I grind it fresh) and a banana and berries... YUM...
I also use almond milk. unsweetened vanilla. yeah! take care
Add me in to beer study please. I will self fund.
Done!
So now we can claim this is an International Study!
Hi Everyone,
Instead starting new thread, i decided to ask question here only. Please forgive me if I am at wrong place. At a very high level scanning of this particular thread, the question is, should I avoid meat from my diet?
I am consuming 80-100 grams (a little piece of chicken fully steamed with rice and black beans) every single ONCE a day. Is this OK, or this might create a problem? I thought as a one of the source of protein along with other alternatives.
I saw repetitive advises to stay away from dairy and meat products. I am taking one ensure and a milkshake like Christina said besides other meals I enjoy. Trying to hit 2500 C everyday.
Another question is, is taking a small piece (10- gram) of full fat butter and a 1 tablespoon of cheese OK? My perception was, I need fat also in my body besides other elements.
Please share your thoughts on my consumption pattern based on age factor. FYI, I am scientifically trying to intake all possible nutrients my body needs, not just as a preventive measure or curing.
Thanks in advance to all respected members.
Ankur,
Eat everything you possibly can eat. Eat all the fatty foods you normally stay away from. Eat plenty of french fries and hamburgers. The goal is go get as much weight on now. You have one month before rads - you WILL lose weight so build a buffer now.
For an in depth discussion, seek out a nutritionist at your treatment center. You should have one available to you. Ask about after rads nutrition. A healthy balanced diet is the best you can take in but now is the wrong time for this. During treatments you need to push yourself to get those calories in. Its not the right time to get overly concerned about what you take in to achieve those calories. Meat contains protein which helps healing so avoiding meat would not be a good decision.
If you are pushing to get 2500 calories daily, push a little harder. Its even ok to take in 3500 or 4000 calories daily. Your body is fighting the treatments plus cancer and is burning calories at an incredible rate. Its almost like athletes in training.... they can do 7000 calories daily.
Radiation will get progressively harder as time goes on making your daily intake target harder to reach. This is why you must get into the habit early to make it easier to hit as time goes on as you will be used to it. I cant stress how important your calories and water intake are during and for the 1st year after rads ends. It will be the deciding factor in how well you do. Now isnt the time to worry about what is making up the calories, that is secondary to hitting your daily intake goals. Bulk up, you will need the extra pounds.
Ankur, what is your goal weight? I'd blow away in the wind eating like that. As Christine suggests, I would consult a nutritionist and determine what you need based on weight you began with and whether or not you are able to maintain it.
Just my two cents worth.
hi Mamacita. Okay - everyone here knows my views on diet. But I will share them again. I must admit I am biased I am a vegetarian/vegan and have been for years. I do credit it with keeping the cancer I had in check as I'd had a problem with my tongue for several years before it was finally diagnosed as cancer. It could very well have been displasia and then changed later - however, the tumor in my tongue had been there for some time. I know this. Anyway.
I agree you should get all the calories you can while recovering. Particularly if you are having issues eating and maintaining weight. Where I veer from the average advice giver, is in the type of calories. Everyone here says eat as much fatty food as you can. I disagree... While fat calories are necessary, and while they do help you gain weight, they are not the best way to get calories. They are empty.. and can clog arteries and have a long term effect on your health. Kinda like sugar calories. Ideally, get your calories from proteins, and complex carbs with the right amount of good fats.
I mean would you tell a sick person to eat at Mc Donalds and In and Out burger daily? NO!!! What you need are good calories. Flax oils, olive oils, not fried, maybe in a salad or added to other fluids (boullions, water) if you are sauteing.
I am not saying avoid meat. I am not going to push my beliefs on anyone. Personally I've read enough to support my health choices.
However if you do quit make sure you replace it with an alternative protein.
I put 2 tbsp of flax ( I grind it myself ) in with Almond milk (an awesome alternative to milk - and you can make it yourself from raw fresh almonds or buy it... preferably unsweetened) - I avoid soy if at all possible. And I add a plant based protein powder. Christine's shake is great and has calories galore. You can still make it just maybe modify the ingredients to be less dairy based if you want.
Try fresh legumes, and green leafy veggies (in soups - lentils, chick peas, beans, spinach, kale etc. ) Quinoa, chia, rice are also good sources of protein. if you don't like the texture toss it into a blender and make a smooth soup. You don't have to replace all meat and dairy at first maybe minimize it to see how you feel. There are a lot of alternatives out there to butter, and cheese, and you can even make your own cashew and almond cheeses.
Most importantly avoid processed foods. Basically eat healthfully, It doesn't have to be fatty. Just full of calories. hugs. Fat calories are fast and easy but easy isn't always the best way to do things. hugs.
Soy is NOT bad and should be part of everyone's diet.
Soy's isoflavones are credited with producing the healthy benefits. The isoflavones were first considered to be ''plant estrogens" and estrogen-like in action. But experts now believe they may also work in other ways, such as having antioxidant properties.
Among the findings of the working group:
Soy relieved certain menopausal symptoms. Utian says the relief from hot flashes is typically moderate. According to research, soy does not work as well as hormone therapy but was better than placebo, Utian tells WebMD. "If you give estrogen a 9 out of 10 score, and placebo 4 of 10, soy would be about 6.5."
Supplements with a higher proportion of the isoflavone known as genistein or increased S(-)-equol, which is made by intestinal bacteria from the isoflavone daidzein, seem to provide more benefits than other products.
Soy from foods is linked with lower risks of breast and endometrial cancer in studies.
Soy is not bad if you are eating soy beans or natural versions of it. The problem with soy milk/soy proteins etc, is that they are now highly refined and have a whole bunch of crap added to them - they've been messed with so you really don't know what you're ingesting which is really sad. You also don't know how much natural soy you are getting and what else is in the drink/protein. Years ago everyone jumped on the soy bandwagon and now its so refined and genetically modified that on some cases it's actually not good for you depending on what you are buying. Also if you have any other issues (any kind of hormone related cancer) they recommend avoiding soy all together.
Hugs
I'm with you on that Cheryl. I am very fortunate in that I am currently able to get almost all of my nutrition through food. I have eaten a lot of soy products for well over 50 years and that plays a role as well. Likewise, I was raised on MSG and for Asians, it would be hard to say it reduces the ability to learn as children as many studies suggest.
I used to make all my sky milk and tofu from organic soybeans for many years. I just don't have the time or money these days.
The hormone warnings are primarily for males because of the "estrogen" effect but it really has to be in significant high volumes. The benefit for women may be a good thing.
Sudden introduction of anything new to the body can have deleterious affects. I know of a lady that decided to listen to everyone telling her to drink more water one day. From noon to 7 pm she died from over consumption of water. Who would have imagined that?? It wasn't gallons either.
Drinking excess water lowers the serum sodium.
This then causes the brain to swell . If this is severe and untreated, yes it will kill you. ( just thought I'd add )
Tammy
Chips anyone? (just joking... ) and yup - Tammy is right. It's all about moderation and knowing what you are eating and drinking. hugs
Hi All...
Xantippi here and I totally agree with the responses that say try to get as much weight ON as y0u possibly can right now.
Also let me say congratulations for coming this far. Glad you are able to eat... right now.
I too did great right after surgery... pretty radical surgery too, my doctors were very impressed with my recovery. Then I had radiation therapy.... and OMG... I was totally not ready for such extreme reactions to the radiation.
I had lost weight after the surgery but then I lost lots of weight as a result of the radiation therapy.
Everyone is different, to be sure. And no one can tell you exactly how you will react to the radiation, but for right now... do not worry about what you eat as much as just EAT. Put some weight on... and once you get to where I am now... many months past radiation and then I had another type of cancer in my lung found in the middle of my radiation treatments... again OMG! (right?)... but all done with all of it now.
And NOW I do have to watch what I eat... I pick my foods carefully, I eat a lot of broiled salmon and lots of greens. I juice carrots every day... brown rice, once one of my all time fav foods is one of the only foods I can no longer swallow. Swallowing rice is like trying to swallow sticky pebbles... no lie. They just don't want to go down and when I force them down with water... I cough and cough... and they almost hurt to swallow. so no rice but I do eat whole grain breads with lots of nuts and grains. I eat ground flax seed on my oatmeal every morning... about a table spoon full.
So again... don't worry too much right now about what you eat. Just eat as much as you can now... and good luck to you for your struggle from this point forward.
My thoughts will be with you.
While I have only had to deal with surgery - On top of your normal ensure/nutrition shakes, I would suggest adding some homemade protein shakes using a high quality protein powder and blending in healthy foods like greens, fruits, soy milk etc. It helps keep your calories and protein up and lets you get the nutrients from foods you wouldn't be able to eat whole right now. I also made soups with healthy vegetables and then blended them until they were smooth. I think it is realistic to at least have half of your daily intake coming from these. Every little bit helps!
Older post but there is certainly still some good information in here.
I also found it a bit strange that so many of the foods that I was encouraged to eat at the hospital when first getting out, and in the initial stages of recovery, was quite heavy in fat and sugar. I had to find a way to pile on the calories, so I'd eat a big honkin' milkshake every day. Lots of ice cream, then I'd add whatever I want to it. Sometimes just cocoa powder, sometimes fruit, sometimes peanut butter or coconut milk. But I'd always add a scoop of whey protein powder.
Soups are pretty easy to eat too, but so many of them are so high in sodium. Thankfully I had a teammate on my dragonboat team that used to be a chef, so when I first got home from my surgery, he had made batches of four different soups, and put them into some freezable containers. It was a very nice thing for someone to do.
One thing I did find useful was to make my own juice. I had bought a masticating juicer even before my diagnosis, in an attempt to find a way to increase my vegetable intake. It's sometimes tough to eat enough vegetables the regular "old fashioned" way. I found that having a nice green juice every second day or so helped me feel better. Something with some kale, cucumber, celery, an apple, etc. Sometimes I'd add some carrot, beet, lemon or ginger to switch it up a bit, or trade out pear for the apple.