Posted By: Brian Hill Biotene products - 10-16-2013 07:09 PM
As many of you know OCF has been a promoter of the Biotene dry mouth products for many years. I am putting up this post or to let everyone know that we are no longer advocating that anyone use any of these products. We have taken all their information down from our website, and we will not be working with them as sponsors for any of our events.

I will elaborate on this over the weekend in detail, but the products have changed into some cheap, unhelpful, and potentially harmful products since GSK recently reformulated them to make more profits. All the good ingredients such as the expensive enzymes, are gone from them, and they have added other chemistries to them that might actually be harmful to you.

This is all happening to generate more profits for corporate shareholders. There is nothing of value in these products any longer, and if you are paying these big dollars for them you are wasting your money. You might as well by a $1.50 tube of Colgate or Crest at WalMart and save your money. In a post following this I will detail the whole situation, after I talk to my good friend Michael Pelaco who started Laclede and created the chemistries that were known as Biotene. But if you are buying these right now, I suggest that you do not. It is a financial waste of money, and when I get the full ingredient list to you this weekend, you will see what they have put in these products that is potentially harmful to you. This is nothing but corporate greed at its worst, and the loss of a great product from the marketplace.

OCF is working with two other companies to try to get someone interested in this small niche marketplace to put a product out in the world that we can all use, that will be helpful for those of us that suffer from dry mouth.

This is a particularly sad turn of events that a multi billion dollar company would ruin something that had a following and worked well, to make a few more dollars for their shareholders. This has become a topic of discussion on boards around the web including the Amazon product comments section. GSK has made a huge mistake. They think that people will not notice and that this cheap substitute will not jar the HABITS that users have when they buy the product. This is an insult to their loyal customers.

But I am not surprised that after spending more than 190 million dollars to buy the company, that they think that no one will notice that they have corrupted the product. This happens so often when a giant entity buys some small company. A large entity buys a unique, innovative, company or product, and then once they own the brand, they start changing it to make greater profits. Michael P. is a person that wanted to create something that would help those of us that suffer from these treatment related issues. I can tell you that he is heartbroken that they have ruined something that he dedicated a large portion of his life to bring to market to help all of us. But he is no longer involved with the product or the company. Now OCF is going to distance ourselves from this as well. All you have to do is read the active ingredients label on the product, to realize that it is a brand new product/formula. One which is lesser in every way.
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 10-17-2013 12:26 AM
Thanks for watching out for everyone and informing us about this change. What a shame that greed won out!!!
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-17-2013 12:55 PM
I just bought a new tube of the toothpaste and some of their gum yesterday (nice timing smile ) and after reading Brian's post I compared the old tube labeling and ingredients to my new tube. HUGE DIFFERENCES. The new tube list ZERO ingredients other than fluoride and even that's a different type. The old tube expounded on the benefits of their paste for dry mouth but not so with the new tube as it only says it's basically a toothpaste.

Not so with the gum as everything is the same with the one I got yesterday with ones purchased weeks ago but that could be that I just bought gum manufactured before the change.

I will be interested to see the future posts Brian talks about.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 10-17-2013 03:08 PM
The gum was never a big seller, and there is likely new old stock around everywhere. I don't think they will continue making it since it hasn't been a big profit center for them.
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-17-2013 06:21 PM
Well I have a stockpile of 14 boxes so I'm good for appx 224 days give ot take. smile
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-18-2013 01:09 PM
Bart sent me a PM with the following comment about my post re the Biotene gum. I'm posting his comment to me because Bart says this Thread is blocked from comments other than us people in RED and I wasn't aware of that.

"But I wouldn't recommend paying the freight, when any gum with a non-sucrose sweetner, and especially with a Xylitol sweetner, such as Trident (I use their "Tropical Twist" flavor and get it in 3-pack plastic packaging.

The Trident (and I'm sure that most of the big brands offer a Xylitol variant) is MUCH cheaper than the biotene, and the gum itself seems to last much longer as well.

I learned about this from my dentist, who sells mints made of Xylitol for dry mouth."
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 10-18-2013 03:54 PM
Uhboy, what a drag. I've got probably 2 or 3 unopened tubes of Biotene toothpaste on hand, at about 10 bucks a pop, as well as the same in mouthwash.

Brian, do you recommend a substitute?

Thanks for all the great work per usual.
Posted By: Kerri Re: Biotene products - 10-18-2013 09:36 PM
I've noticed that there are a lot of other brands at the drugstores who are jumping on the "dry mouth product" bandwagon...i.e. Colgate, Crest, Act. Not exactly sure which companies, but they are some of the big ones that have had products on the market for a long time. I suspect that they are trying to get their share of the marketplace. Perhaps these companies knew of the purchase of the Biotene company and scurried to get their products on shelves. It wouldn't surprise me if they contained (essentially) the very same formula. I'll have to compare labels the next time I go into CVS. Thank you, Brian, for always looking out for us and doing what is best for OCF.
Posted By: fishmanpa Re: Biotene products - 10-18-2013 09:44 PM
This stinks! I used the toothpaste during treatment as it was the only thing that didn't burn the heck out of my mouth. I've been using the Oral Balance gel at night as it kept my mouth moist.

Any recommendations for a similar product?

"T"
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-21-2013 01:09 PM
David2, If you have the old formula those tubes are still OK.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-21-2013 03:04 PM
I have a number of toothpaste tubes and some mouthwash that I bought a while ago. When was the formula changed? How do I tell if the supply I have is the "old" (better) formula or the "new" (worthless) one? Anyone know what ingredients were in the old formula?
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-22-2013 12:53 PM
take your product to a store and compare it to the ones currently sold. My older toothpaste tube was DRASTICALLY different from the one I just bought.
Posted By: Cheryld Re: Biotene products - 10-22-2013 02:18 PM
Disturbing... but not unusual.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 05:10 AM
Since I'm one of the OCF walk organizers, we received an email last week from OCF about this. In some follow-up questions someone asked when the change was made and the response was within the past 2 months.

From what I can recall, the Biotene toothpaste I have was bought in June (local drug store), so I'm assuming it is OK. smile I recall that I first tried to order it on-line from Amazon and there was a message to the effect that due to quality issues the item wasn't available at this time (which leads me to believe the change happened more than 2 months ago).

I have the "gentle mint gel" which has Sodium Monofluorophosphate (0.14% w/v fluoride ion) as it only active ingredient. Inactive ingredients include sorbitol, glycerin, water, silica, xylitol, hydrated silica ... ending with "Contains mild and egg derivatives." Sounds yummy! eek

This matches the ingredients on the "gentle mint gel" I found in the same local drug store today.

They also had the "fresh mint original" flavor which had Sodium Fluoride (0.15% w/v fluoride ion) as its only active ingredient. The inactive ingredients were different and less of them.

I didn't expect the two flavors to have such different ingredients, so perhaps one is the "old" version and one is the "new"? If the formula was only changed 2 months ago, it could be that the store still has some "old" version in stock.

I used to buy the PBF version of both the mouthwash and toothpaste, but haven't been able to find that lately so I bought the non-PBF version.

I shared this information with a number of local OC survivors who used Biotene for years (and also have a supply at home). In Brian's post he indicated he would follow-up with more details on the ingredients and the changes. Since I'm not a chemist, a detailed list of ingredients isn't necessary, I'm just looking for an easy way to tell the "good" from the "bad" and perhaps find some of the "good" still in a local store. smile
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 12:25 PM
At a SPOHNC meeting, this was brought up in May or June.
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 12:57 PM
Well I tried the new toothpaste and first thing I noticed was it was much less dense than the former. Then brushing with it felt like I was using a really cheap weak toothpaste if that makes sense?
Posted By: Ambra Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 01:07 PM
I am pretty new here, and have been using Biotene stuff for only a bit over a month. After reading all this here, I went to Amazon and among various reviews, found lists of ingredients, both new and old versions, for the toothpaste and PBF mouthwash (green bottle). Not sure if I am allowed to copy/paste that here, but didn't take me more than 10 minutes to find it there.
Armed with those lists, I went to my local pharmacy and found that the products on the shelves were mix of old and new formulas. Interestingly, all the new formulas had an added red line on the front saying "new and improved pH balance". Needless to say, I stocked up on the old versions.
Also, I tried to by their dry mouth spray, which I guessed would be old formula based on ingredients (did not have old/new formula to compare). I was unable too, as I was told at the checkout that the product was recalled.
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 02:22 PM
Somewhat related, I used ACT dry mouth lozenges, with Xylitol, a few times. Once I did just before seeing the doctor, and got called in, so I wanted to take it out, and not wanting to waste it, I just put it in my water bottle, which slowly dissolved it, turning it light blue. I sipped on it the rest of the day, and it kept my mouth moist, fresher much longer than anything.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 03:26 PM
Ambra,

If you still have the information from Amazon, can you send to me in a personal message (PM)? I did try looking on Amazon for that information, and wasn't able to find it (don't really know how to search their website for that type info).

Thanks!
Posted By: EzJim Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 04:45 PM
I sure am glad this crazy computerr finally let me go online. I was wondering about the difference ib Biotene products lately. I surre am grateful for Brians post I just read. I guess it's time IO forget Biotene and check out some other companies. Due for refills on most products and time to go looking. Thanks Brain for your diligent work.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 04:48 PM
Hey Jim,

Good to hear from you!! You've been MIA for too long!
Posted By: Ambra Re: Biotene products - 10-23-2013 08:40 PM
Hi Susan,

I have sent you the PM with the formulas. I have copied and pasted from Amazon, hopefully you can read it.

Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 04:22 AM
So there are a ton of really obvious changes. First, they took out all the patented and trademarked LP3 Salivary Enzyme System chemistry. These are the every expensive enzymes that served an important function in your mouth, the three most important were Lactoperioxidase, Lactoferrin, and lysozyme. Because of the cost of these, the paste had to retail at a much higher price then the competition. The also replaced the stannous fluid with sodium fluoride. The are significant difference in these two products, and of course costs as well. They have added some kind of foaming agent to the paste which was not there before, and while may people have their suspicions what this, is until we get the chemistry back from someone who is running this through an independent laboratory to see what on the "inactive ingredient list" which has pretty much been eliminated, I don't know what it is. But anyone who is familiar with the old product, knows that it didn't foam up much in your mouth. This stuff today is like expanding foam that you use to seal your air leaks around your windows!! The primary sweetening agent in the old product was xylitol which is actually cario-static, helping to prevent the formation of decay and way more expensive than other artificial sweeteners -and now we have sugar, alcohol, sucralose, and saccharin. None of which are good for you.

There is more, but two people who I respect have eluded to more inactive ingredients that are actually harmful, and as soon as I can verify that I will list what they are. Bottom line, except for some glycerin which is cheap ( and water soluble so it does not stay in your mouth) there is little in here that is really going to help your dry mouth, and as I stated previously, the composition of this new formula is not that much different that the cheap toothpastes on the market. So I stand by my opinion that this is a lesser product in many ways, and they are still selling it at the really high price of the original product with all the expensive components in it. They think no one will read the label perhaps. Their other products appear unchanged at this time. But certainly when their inventory level changes, we will have to consider what they replace those with. GSK is a multi billion dollar company that has done some really good things, like come out with an HPV vaccine, but in consumer healthcare they have a completely different operating philosophy apparently. They have huge market share, and I doubt that a little non-profit like OCF is going to turn away all the people that see their millions of dollars worth of TV commercials and ads. But for those in the know that we can reach, we want them not to find false hope in an inferior product to the high quality paste that they put out for many years. The new formula is certainly not worth what you are paying for it.

Someone please correctly me if I am wrong, but on the old tube I never recall seeing a warning that said "if you ingested more than the amount that you would normally put on a toothbrush, you should get medical help and call poison a control center immediately". I don't have an old tube to refer to.

Also on the completely independent Amazon.com customer comments board you can see that up until mid 2013 the reviews were stellar. After that point in time the most recent reviews are all complaints about the change.

http://www.amazon.com/Biotene-Mouth...ints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
Posted By: AnitaFrances Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 04:33 AM
I just saw a commercial on TV for Biotene toothpaste. They still claim using this product will help people with dry mouth. How can they get away with saying that when the ingredients don't support that? Could this be an issue for the FDA to examine more closely? It sure sounds like a false claim to me. By the way, Clark has been using this stuff for years since his diagnosis. It is so disappointing that market share and profit making have turned this into a useless product. What a scam!
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 04:38 AM
Anita, this is a class one FDA product. It does not have to meet much in the way of requirement for approval, but the labels have to be honest, which they are. ALWAYS READ YOUR LABELS WHEN BUYING FOOD AND OTC DRUGS.

I think everyone will really be surprised when we are able to post the inactive ingredient list.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 05:36 AM
I may be in luck! My local drug store appears to have both the "old" and "new" formula, and the toothpaste I bought a few months ago was the "old".

I have the Gentle Mint Gel flavor, and on the front in red it states "Protein-Enzyme System", and "Gentle, Low Foaming Formula", which I believe is the old formula. The drug store also had the "new" formula which states instead "Essential Fluoride Tooth Protection" and "Gentle Formula". The type of fluoride is different between the two formulas as Brian noted.

The warning is the same on both tubes, and I check other toothpaste we have and it is on there also. I believe that is a standard warning for any toothpaste that contains fluoride. So why is it that many communities add fluoride to the water?????

Ironically while I was typing this a Biotene commercial came on TV. laugh
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 10:18 AM
Here is a MSDS, Material Safety Data Sheet, upadted in August, 2013 for Biotene Dry Mouth Toothpaste:

http://www.msds-gsk.com/consumer/13245002.pdf
Posted By: lola7172 Re: Biotene products - 10-24-2013 06:53 PM
Any good replacement for Biotene?

I'm so bummed about this but it makes sense. I bought a new tube a month or so ago and I noticed the foaming action right away. I didn't care for it. I also noticed it stung my mouth a tad more. I can't use regular toothpaste because the mint or something burns my whole mouth. My plan will be to use my daughters Toms children's strawberry toothpaste. It doesn't sting. But it won't do anything for my dry mouth- I don't think.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 02:42 AM
Interesting sheet Paul, but as a class one product they don't have to list anything here, as this is intended for the workers handling the product in bulk and with routine. We'll know soon enough what all the other ingredients are.

No there isn't anything else out there that I would recommend right now. All toothpastes have really strong flavors which irritate our mouths, but in normal people it creates the illusion that their mouth is "really clean and fresh." And the trend now is toward toothpastes that do it all, bleach your teeth, ( that really burns) freshen your breath, claim to harden your enamel ( kind of a long shot that sells things that have calcium in them) fight sensitivity, (this is really doable) etc. So finding something simple and straight forward can be problematic.

We are in conversations with some companies encouraging them to enter the marketplace with an OCF endorsement of a compatible product. None would have the enzymes as GSK bought that patent. But there is a whole list of tissue soothing ingredients that several people are working on for me that combined with the right fluoride and a very mild flavor would help us greatly. Will keep posting when something relevant changes.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 02:59 AM
Anne, The FDA is grossly underfunded, especially since the sequester, understaffed, and more. They have real dangerous drugs to monitor, not to mention our food chain, which big business and factory animal farming is trying to kill most of the oversight and inspection of - all on their table. Looking at a toothpaste that is making a claim which cannot be substantiated is pretty far down their list of protecting Americans.

The best way to deal with Biotene is through their sales. Don't buy from them. It doesn't mean that they will change, especially if most people do not know what we all know, and do not read lanes beyond the claims. Look how many people will by a product that says "natural" on it because somehow that think that is better for them. That term means less than nothing!!! Cancer is natural, so are tons of poisons. Lemmings - all of them. But many companies given enough financial pressure will bend to the will of their customers wallets and bad PR.
Posted By: saxicola Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 10:14 AM
I really hate the way these big companies play around with our lives to make a bit of extra profit for the fat cats. It makes me so angry. Thanks for alerting us to this Brian.

I gave up using Biotene mouth gel and mouth spray a few months ago when it became unavailable in the UK for a while (possibly around the change over time?). As a replacement I found BioXtra, which I find less sticky than Biotene, and their spray is pleasanter too. It is available on Amazon for about the same price and I see they do a toothpaste too. I have never used the Biotene/BioXtra toothpaste as I use Colgate's Duraphat 2800ppm Fluoride toothpaste which is prescribed and recommended by my oncology dentist.

While I was researching alternatives to Biotene online I came across some interesting information on dry mouth products showing which ones are acidic and therefore should be avoided. Biotene and Bioxtra where 2 of the few that were OK, many were too acidic to be recommended. I wonder if the new Biotene formula is still OK. I have not been able to find the article again, but I perhaps I posted this info here so I will go and see if I can unearth it again.
Posted By: saxicola Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 10:38 AM
To follow on from my post a few minutes ago... OK I've found my previous post which was nearly a year ago, and the link to the information on acidity of saliva substitutes didn't work! So it looks like I changed from Biotene a year ago.

For information on acidity of saliva substitutes try this link http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ukmi?q=right+product&sa=Google+Search and click on the top link which should be called 'Saliva substitutes - UKMi' this should open a word document. It has been updated in February, since I looked at last November, and guess what, Biotene is now listed as being acidic. I hope you find this helpful.

The information is provided by UK Medicines Information (UKMi)which is a UK NHS pharmacy based service. http://www.ukmi.nhs.uk/ukmi/about/default.asp?pageRef=1
Posted By: Uptown Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 02:43 PM
[quote=Brian Hill] Look how many people will by a product that says "natural" on it because somehow that think that is better for them. That term means less than nothing!!! Cancer is natural, so are tons of poisons. [/quote]

Ironically the term when used in meat products is the most regulated throughout the entire food change including "organic".
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 03:24 PM
Well put, Brian. The two tubes I have on hand, allegedly the PBF, have next to no info on them. Only: "Plaque-biofilm loosening formula" (whatever that means) and a little tag "with xylitol".

The single active ingredient on the back is: "Sodium Monoflurophosphate (0.14% w/v fluoride ion)". It's purpose is "Anticavity".

I'm comforted by the ion.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 05:13 PM
Without going into the differences in all ingredients, I believe you can tell the �old/good� from the �new/junk� by the front of the package.

I have the Gentle Mint Gel flavor (which I�m pretty sure is the �old/good� stuff). On the front in red it states "Protein-Enzyme System", and also "Gentle, Low Foaming Formula", and �Formulated to Not Irritate a Dry Mouth�. On the back the only active ingredient is Sodium Monofluorophosphate (0.14% w/v fluoride ion), and it notes �Naturally Sweetened with Xylitol�.

I found both the new and old versions at a local chain pharmacy this week. The front of the "new/junk" formula states instead in red "Essential Fluoride Tooth Protection", and also "Gentle Formula", and �Designed not to Irritate a Dry Mouth�. It also has in red �New Improved pH Balance�. The only active ingredient is Sodium Fluoride (0.15% w/v fluoride ion) and no Xylitol. My understanding is that sodium fluoride is the cheaper fluoride and not as good as the other one.

There used to be a PBF version of the toothpaste and I haven�t seen that in a few months. I was able to find the �old� version of the Gentle Mint Gel in two stores this week and bought what they had on the shelf. The �new� formula was in the Fresh Mint Original flavor. I noticed the copyright date differed from the old and new versions � new had 2013 as the date.

I was able to find the PBF mouthwash in the same stores which appears to be the old formula for that (copyright date of 2010).

From what I read, one of the �improvements� they added is a foaming agent which is noticeable right away and burns your mouth.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-25-2013 05:17 PM
Used copy/paste for above message - missing text issue strikes again. Sorry!

I tried to post a message on how to tell the difference between the old and new (improved) toothpaste tubes. I'll work posting it later when I have time.
Posted By: lotsacats Re: Biotene products - 10-26-2013 06:59 PM
Has anyone tried the Epic Dental Xylitol products? I've seen them advertise online,but hoped to hear about someone else's experience with them before buying.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 10-28-2013 01:07 AM
I checked out their website, cats. Looks impressive from the reviews, but of course those were non-cancer patients. I think. I too would be curious to know about it and might just go ahead and order some anyway. In which case I'll post results. Thanks for the tip.
Posted By: margaret_in_ma Re: Biotene products - 11-02-2013 02:51 AM
Well crap... I'm so glad I found this thread posted on the OCF Facebook page! This is so very lousy to learn. Last time I tried a conventional toothpaste, I had to spit it out within 10 or 15 seconds, it burned so badly. I've been wondering if Tom's children toothpastes would work for me. They won't have the enzymes, of course, but maybe I could tolerate them.

Damn, I hate corporations.
Posted By: mikejwoodnz Re: Biotene products - 11-02-2013 09:01 AM
I am using "Sensodyne" Rapid Relief toothpaste as advertised on TV here in New Zealand. It works and does provide short term pain relief and is an excellent pseudo mouthwash.
Posted By: tina77 Re: Biotene products - 11-02-2013 11:29 AM
If you can find, the Arbonne mouthwash is one of the few that didn't burn.

Also, I found that any colored mouthwash (especially blue or green) left colour on my tongue, making the incision line like look almost black.

Yep, that's just what we need...first time it happened, I thought something was rotting, lol!
Posted By: walknlite Re: Biotene products - 11-02-2013 10:11 PM
Regular toothpaste has now started making my mouth burn, and sensodyne does too. The only thing that didnt make my mouth burn was biotene. Now what do I do? In the ment time I went back to my Crest toothpaste, but it burns like the dickens. On the look out for something else.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 11-03-2013 11:09 PM
I just tried a couple of children's toothpastes. They have the same fluoride that we all need, and have far less harsh flavoring. I have yet to settle on one, but at the end of the day the ingredient list isn't significantly any different than the new Biotene formula.

OCF had a call from Procter and Gamble who is interested in entering the marketplace. I suspect they would like more feedback, recommendations, before they take the leap into what is a pretty small (by their standards) marketplace. They might like an endorsement, which OCF can't do� even for money if we wish to keep our credibility. The only way around that would be if they were the only product of the type out there. They own tons of major oral care brands and have enough money to do anything they want. GSK created a vacuum by doing what they did, and others are paying attention. This was an unnecessary, self inflicted wound, that has left blood in the marketing world of toothpastes. The sharks will come�.

Sensodyne is another GSK product like Biotene. They are making many of their formulas more similar. Remember that the one difference between "sensitive" toothpastes and all others (no matter the brand) is they mostly use one more active ingredient listed right with the fluoride. That ingredient is 5% potassium nitrate. I just bought a tube of CVS Pharmacy's store brand sensitive toothpaste that has essentially the same ingredients as Sensdyne, for $99 cents for a 4oz. tube. I am starting to photograph all the boxes at major drug stores for brands and ingredient lists. You would be surprised at how similar most of them are. I have a chemist that has put together toothpaste formulas for others and knows what each ingredient contributes to the process, and I will put up a list of things that are harmless and others that are ones you should stay away from, like SLS (sodium laurel sulfate) which in some people is a significant irritant.

But toothpastes are far from rocket science. It's a fairly homogenous market of similar products with different marketing strategies, and budgets to get their brand market share.

I have also had a conversation with GSK, and heard like many others, their new marketing meme about why they did this. It is so much nonsense. You just don't go out and pay almost 200 million dollars for a formula and brand (they did not buy a company) and then two years later tell everyone that the formula you just paid all that money for is so bad it has to have a 99% makeover. Why buy it if it is so bad� the only reason was to buy market share that the brand name carries. They think the lemmings will follow the brand no matter what the formula is, and to some extent they are correct. But not those of us that read labels and think for ourselves.
Posted By: margaret_in_ma Re: Biotene products - 11-04-2013 04:31 AM
What about Tom's of Maine, now owned by Colgate? They already serve a variety of niche markets and place a very value on their ingredients. They might be up for the challenge.
Posted By: LeftyS7 Re: Biotene products - 11-20-2013 12:53 AM
CVS makes knock-off Biotene products. I always preferred its mouth spray to Biotene's. I was just at my local CVS store and saw that the CVS Mouthwash has enzymes listed in it's contents so, hopefully, their Biotene knock-offs across the board will have enzymes. However, I don't know if CVS has any additional dry mouth products beside these two.
Posted By: LeftyS7 Re: Biotene products - 11-20-2013 12:57 AM
Just look at the most recent negative reviews of the Biotene products on Amazon. Many users there are aware of the change in the products.
Posted By: David Russell Re: Biotene products - 11-21-2013 06:02 PM
I have been using Biotene moisturizing mouth spray for about 3 years now because I found it worked the best of any I have tried. I was told by my supplier today that it is temporarily unavailable because it is being reformulated. Could they be back tracking on the changes Brian was referring to?
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 11-21-2013 10:43 PM
Sounds to me like you will soon get the new "improved" product on your shelves. Beware! Take one that you had at home and compare the ingredients to the new items and you will see its a new product. Glad you read the whole thread so you know the scoop and can use caution when purchasing.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 01-08-2014 07:46 PM
If someone found a web page with the old ingredients, it would be simple enough to copy and paste the whole list so we can see it.

BTW, someone I used to know, who was in her thirties and never had a tooth cavity in her life, switched to Tom's toothpaste and got her first cavity within a year.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 01-09-2014 04:33 AM
Well, I have just talked to someone that is going to bring to market a paste designed just for our problems. I'm really excited. This is someone that is familiar with the original Biotene formulas and while it will not be an exact copy of those due to patents, he gets exactly what this needs to have. We talked about some other moisturizers that may be included in the formula, aloe, coconut oils, as well as things that are also beneficial like CQ10 and more that would make it a very unique product. I will keep you all informed as I learn more.

GSK is saying that their PBF formulas have not changed. I am not taking them at their word, I am going to compare a new package with photos of the ingredients i have from an old box. But bottom line, until someone sends it out for analysis no one actually knows. This is the problem with the CVS enzyme formulas. They have had them for while, but the amount of enzymes in them is no where near what ws in Biotene. I know because Laclede tested them, and determined this when they were considering suing them for infringing the enzyme patent. (Which is due to run out soon).

I am using the mail order Squiggle product right now to evaluate anecdotally how it feels, and while I find it nothing special except being a fluoride and abrasive delivery vehicle, it has very mild flavor and is not unpleasant to use.
Posted By: Nancy14 Re: Biotene products - 01-09-2014 02:41 PM
Before the holidays, I searched several stores and did find several tubes of the 'older formula' on some store shelves (smaller Mom/Pop type stores). Some had both new and old and it was easy to compare the formulas and even the packaging. There is a Facebook page at: Facebook - Biotene. Not sure if we can repost those pictures here, so I am only including the link.

Regards,
Nancy
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 01-17-2014 03:48 AM
I looked up the ingredients in the 'BioXtra' products and they sound helpful for oral hygiene and for maintaining a moist mouth.

Perioextra also eludes to the same benefits but I did not find their list of ingredients directly on their site.

My husband will soon need a less irritating toothpaste and a moisturizing gel, from what I have read on this post BioExtra seams like the best option for now. Any experience with this product or any other suggestions are welcome.

So glad I found out about the downgrade in bioteen ingredients before buying the product. I have been informing the staff at the hospital about the change as they are unaware. I will keep them informed of better options so they can refer these to their patients.

You guys Rock! Sophie
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 01-17-2014 10:00 PM
Thanks, Sophie. There seem to be a few suppliers of Bioextra on Amazon and I'm curious about it. I'll flag the page and hope someone who's used it weighs in with an opinion. If I don't hear anything I'll probably go ahead and order a tube when my current stock of old Biotene runs out in the next month.

And of course I'll be using my OCF link when I do, as always.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 01-18-2014 04:04 AM
If you go to pubmed you can find research on bioxtra and other products. Just type the word into the search feature.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 01-18-2014 05:27 PM
Thanks for that, Andrew. There appear to be a handful of small studies and BioXtra fares well. In one it even scores higher than Biotene, which I'll assume was the previous formula since the study was done a few years ago.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 01-25-2014 11:24 PM
Here are my recent PBF products. It looks to my untrained eye like the enzyme ingredients are still included. But I do not known how much.

Biotene PBF Oral Rinse
Purified Water, Propylene Glycol,Xylitol,Hydrogenated Starch Hydrolysate, Poloxamer 407, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Sodium Benzoate, Flavor, Benzoic Acid, Mutanase, Disodium Phosphate, Sodium Phosphate, Zinc Gluconate, Lactoferrin, Lysozyme, Lactoperoxidase, Potassium Thiocynate, Aloe Vera Gel, Calcium Lactate, Glucose Oxidase, Dextranase. Contains milk and egg derivatives

Biotene PBF Toothpaste
Active Ingredients: Sodium Monofluorophosphate (0.14% w/v Fluoride Ion)

Inactive Ingredients: Sorbitol, Glycerin, Water, Silica, Xylitol, Hydrated Silica, Isoceteth-20, Poloxamer 188, Cellulose Gum, Flavor, Sodium Benzoate, Mutanase, Lactoperoxidase, Potassium Thiocyanate, Glucose Oxidase, Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Lysozyme, Lactoferrin, Dextranase, Chlorophyllin-Copper Complex, Calcium Lactate. Contains milk and egg derivatives.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 03:51 AM
Just a quick update. The company that is making a prototype paste based on OCF's recommendations is going to have sample to us next week. This is just a first go around, but the groundwork that we laid with them was pretty specific. Good fluoride delivery vehicle, good antibacterial qualities, mild flavor, and a tissue soothing formula given how tender all of our soft tissues are. I optimistic that if they get this nailed we could have a product in 90 days.

Re the NEW Biotene PBF, they took out 3 of the 4 enzymes so they could still call it an enzyme product, and kept the cheapest one. Also the enzymes only work if all four are there together, as they are synergistic.
Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 10:40 AM
Awesome news, Brian! You take care of us in so many different ways. Not just us, but you are taking care of the company making the prototype paste by helping them to make their product better!
Posted By: Shauneen Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 11:16 AM
Thank you Brian.
Posted By: Maria Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 05:13 PM
Awesome, Brian! (or maybe, 'Awesome Brian!').
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 08:20 PM
Maria, both are correct.
Posted By: Bob Whyte Re: Biotene products - 01-26-2014 11:12 PM
Brian, Thanks for your hard for all at OCF, keep up the WARRIOR spirit!! Semper-Fi Bob
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 12:09 AM
In addition to the toothpaste, it would be great if they could make an oral gel to replace Biotene's OralBalance.

With regard to the PBF productc, I just purchased these in the last couple of weeks. They contain Lysozyme, Lactoferrin, Lactoperoxidase, and Glucose Oxidase. So I guess the new ones have not hit my suppliers yet. But I'll pay attention to future purchases and see if the enzymes disappear.

My understanding now (based on reading other parts the OCF site) is Lysozyme splits the cell wall of pathogenic bacteria, Lactoferrin inhibits pathogenic bacteria by depriving them of iron, and Lactoperoxidase plus Glucose Oxidase create an antibacterial agent. It's ashamed that someone can patent this. These chemicals occur naturally in saliva. It's sort of like patenting blood.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 01:00 AM
You guys are really too kind. I assure you that for me to spend my days and evenings doing what I do is also helping me. After all, I don't meet many people each day that get to work at a job where they can look back on each day, and be rewarded with the feeling that they are really living a life of meaning and purpose. It's not that I feel like I am changing the world or anything grandiose like that. It's really that each day I can find some small incremental progress in the fight. It's a rich life and a privilege.

Besides. If I wasn't doing this, I would certainly be getting into some kind of trouble. That would be following my life's previous MO. I would likely hang out at the airport, and if not tinkering with my plane, be "hanger flying" with my buddies there, who like to tell tales of daring do, (big lies) drink beers while doing so, and of course argue about meaningless things. Competitiveness is certainly a part of a pilots nature, and if the weather were bad, we would probably (between beers) just be seeing who could pee the furthest into the snow. Those regularly wasted afternoons would likely occasionally end up in the local pub, continuing an even more brash, obnoxious and loud diatribe about everything from who was the best and most daring pilot, who had flown the most challenging machine, and who had survived the most flying mishaps. Some discussion of prowess with the opposite sex would be needed, and without any members of the opposite sex present to deny the fabrications, the tales would involve feats that would certainly challenge the imagination of Don Juan. Of course shooting pool would be involved, and others from the bar would put their quarters on the table to play winner, and now the "mix" of people would include others who had likely had also had a few too many, and brand new arguments would in due course ensue about something not yet trashed verbally, perhaps some reflections on the nature of someone's mother who disagreed with a particular perspective.

About that time things would really go downhill. Obviously ,the discussion of the mother in question would be really brief, and someone would put their hand on someone else, and be right in their face. My mind, which has difficulty multitasking on the best of days since treatment, would lose control of my mouth, or at least not be keeping up with it. That would be the beginning of what could only be described as a really serious escalation of course. But worse, my brain would certainly have forgotten that it is no longer housed in a 25 year old body, (this is a major problem) but in that of a pretty feeble old dude. By the time it caught up the the reality of the situation at hand, things would certainly be moving in a direction that did not favor a positive outcome for me; I would be in some degree of pain, and given the extent of the group discussion now taking place around me, more similar conversations and outcomes would be taking place as well. Of course someone, perhaps the bar owner not wanting to see his establishment get totally destroyed, would have called the authorities, who by this time would be on scene.

I have always had a problem with figures of authority, and now have a brand new opportunity to express that displeasure, an non-winable discourse, (again probably very short) about the size of the officer's manhood would ensue, as clearly that is why he became a police officer in the first place. In due course after the appropriate amount of time for processing had taken place, I would find myself in some cage, with individuals that surely would be deciding if I was cute enough to e the object of their attention. Things would be seriously bad at this point as you can imagine. My brain has FINALLY, fully grasped the dire nature of my situation, and with some degree of haste I will need to urge my captors to give me that one phone call. This is where the ability to reason clearly really comes into play. Do I call my best friend to come and bail me out, (if can disengage himself from some TV re-run that he is right in the middle of while firmly planted on his couch) or do I call my wife? This is a serious dilemma. Obviously one has some degree of success, but it is based on the TV schedule of the evening - it does however have the advantage of me paying with a minimum of dues for my behavior and situation. The other choice has a guaranteed result of getting me out, but comes attached with some serious dues paying, (and promises of becoming a changed man, some groveling and the like, and an appropriate amount of time in penance for my behavior, where I may no longer complain about taking out the trash or other requested duties). Additionally, and at the very least, it will likely include a lecture on the nature of my relationship with my significant other, and why she, angel of mercy that she is, continues to put up with my incessant misdeeds. After an appropriate number of well behaved weeks, this kind of scenario would most likely play itself out again with diminishing positive returns, proportionate to how often it occurred.

So you can see that, given my proclivities to let the devil find things for my idle mind to do, that dedicating myself to the work of OCF is without any question, IN MY OWN SELF INTEREST. I am not as altruistic as you all think, and as you can see, many things hinge upon that decision, not the least of which is the longevity of my blissful marriage. Please do not think too highly of me, as this exercise clearly shows, I'm in it for myself�..
Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 03:15 AM
Well . . . alrighty, then - but I still think highly of you. And of your angel of mercy that shares you with us.
Posted By: EricS Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 04:16 AM
Personally I think "snow peeing" should be an Olympic Sport! After all it takes more athletic ability and would be more entertaining than curling smile
Posted By: Pandora99 Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 04:28 AM
Great post Brian but the accolades are all well deserved.

With regard to a 'snow peeing' Olympic event Canadian men (and some of our women!) would lift the sport to a true art form.

I have personally known some guys who could write their name in the snow ........ just sayin'! But then, that Stanislav always was a show off.

Donna
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 04:39 PM
Brian, after a careful reading of your fine discourse I've come to only one conclusion: you'd be doing 5 to 10 in Corcoran or Folsam without us fine folks to keep you on the straight and narrow.

You're welcome.

No, really, it's nothing. Not a bit. The least we can do.
Posted By: ngk Re: Biotene products - 01-27-2014 05:44 PM
smile
Posted By: donfoo Re: Biotene products - 01-28-2014 01:35 AM
Sounds crazy! I hope you all throw the keys to the plane in a lock box before starting on ways to burn that idle time. my goodness. Glad you have OCF to keep you out of trouble.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 01-29-2014 08:13 AM
Well I wrote that while I was stuck in an airport waiting to come home from the hospital. It was just an exercise in being bored, on a delayed flight, and to keep you guys cognizant of the fact that I am way far from perfect, and you all think too high of me.

So especially the close where I said it's all about me� SOME PEOPLE TOOK LITERALLY, AND I ACTUALLY GOT TWO NEGATIVE PM'S ABOUT THINKING I WAS ONLY CONCERNED WITH MYSELF. I mean who could read that and not get that it was a spoof? I didn't really know what to say to those people� I will stay with science postings in the future. No one mistakes them for selfishness. This post is not a joke. I guess that I am so dry and science based so much of the time, and I only talk about serious things for the most part, that some people couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that I was kidding�.
Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 01-29-2014 11:26 AM
Brian, to borrow words from a favorite song, please - "don't change a hair for us, not if you care for us. . . . you make us smile with our hearts". Not everyone understands humor or intelligent discourse.

Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 01-29-2014 11:28 AM
No worries Brian, wether a joke or not, and I didn't take it personally or the wrong way, but it was well written, and maybe you should do more writing? Sometimes I read what I write, and wonder if it's miscommunicated. Hope all was well with the hospital.
Posted By: tina77 Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 12:36 AM
Damn, I thought it was funny...

People need to chill out. Plus, even it was all about you, who cares. I want stuff to be all about me, all the time...never happens, but a girl can dream...
Posted By: Mamacita Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 02:27 AM
Brian, it was witty and marvelous, don't you dare let one or two confused people dampen your light!

Have to say, though, that the level of detail was such that I sussed a grain or two of truth? In any case, thanks for all you do!
Posted By: julieann Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 04:26 PM
Hello Brian:
Can you tell me what kind of gum I can get to replace the Biotene? My dentist recommended Trident with Xylitol, but after buying some, I noticed in the ingredients, the first thing listed was Sorbitol (which acts as a laxative). Aspartame was listed and I remember a controversy about that causing such things as multiple sclerosis, Lupis ethanol toxicity, blindness, spasms, shooting pains, seizures, headaches, depression, anxiety, memory loss, birth defects and death. What do you use or think is safe? Thank you for your reply.
Julieann
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 05:22 PM
I saw a documentary on aspartame and never went near it again. It's been awhile, but what happened is the studies were showing damage to the immune system, the FDA approved it anyway, and immediately after a few FDA officers were given high paying jobs at the place that makes aspartame.
Posted By: glocita Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 05:26 PM
I like using Tom's of Main clean & gentle with fluoride toothpaste.
Posted By: julieann Re: Biotene products - 01-30-2014 06:35 PM
Glocita: What type of GUM do you use.
Julieann
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 02-03-2014 06:50 PM
Well, idiot that I am I failed to notice the size of the tube when I'd first hit Amazon for Bioextra. For ten bucks amurkin they give you a generous 50 ml, so you're paying essentially double what Biotene goes for. Seems a bit steep to me. I intend to keep looking!
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 02-04-2014 06:01 AM
In an early post I said I was going to try mail order "Squigle" toothpaste, in spite of the funny kid's name because I heard it had mild flavor and wouldn't burn. It didn't. But its claim to fame, that it has a huge amount of xylitol in it and that was decay preventative, has some but weak science to back up the claim. I asked the manufacturer to send me something to back up the claims they were making in the marketplace, but what I got were partials of an UNpublished study done 20 years ago about xylitol. They did not get that that does not constitute scientific evidence� Still counting on our new company to provide me samples soon. Squigle isn't the solution.
Posted By: Gabe Re: Biotene products - 02-04-2014 06:38 AM
I hope you don't mind if I bring a little light hearted info to your post Brian.
As soon as I read the name Squigle it reminded me straight away of a favourite with kids here which started in the 1950's.
Different spelling but maybe they are related smirk
Gabriele
"Mr. Squiggle was Australia's longest-running children's television series, and the name of the title character from that ABC show.
Mr. Squiggle was a marionette with a pencil for a nose, who visited his friends from his home at 93 Crater Crescent on the Moon, flying in his pet rocket (named Rocket)."
grin
Posted By: ShellAustralia1978 Re: Biotene products - 02-04-2014 11:10 AM
Oh Haha I remember mr squiggle!
Posted By: Maria Re: Biotene products - 02-04-2014 02:00 PM
CVS is offering a dry mouth spray under their on label with 7 enzymes - it was positioned near the Biotene products in our store. We didn't buy it as my husband doesn't us it - but it might be worth checking out.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 02-04-2014 04:50 PM
Australians always get the best shows!

I was about to ask if anyone had ever tried the Tom's of Maine Dry Mouth TP... but I just read some reviews on Amazon. So Tom's (at least as of 2012) is owned by Colgate and their stuff contains lauryl sulfate. On to the next.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 02-05-2014 05:21 PM
Ok, well I was down at my local Walgreen's yesterday. They've built a flagship store here in wonderful Hollywood, CA which looks more like a department store than a drugstore. Quick survey of the toothpaste aisle turned up one item called "Dr. Collins Natural". Found the ingredients list online and here it is:

Ingredients

Dicalcium Phosphate Dihydrate , Water (Purified) , Xylitol , Glycerin , SilicaHydrated , Cellulose Gum , Zinc Citrate Trihydrate , Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Juice , Magnolia Officinalis Bark Extract , Lycium Chinense (Goji) Fruit Extract , Pomegranate (Punica Granatum) Extract , Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil , Coenzyme Q10 , Vitamin E Acetate , Stevia (Stevia Rebaudiana) ExtractLeaf & Stem , Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) , Titanium Dioxide , Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate , Propylene Glycol , Sodium Hydroxide

Here also is the link to the entire page:

http://www.walgreens.com/search/res...iew=allView&Ntt=natural%20toothpaste

When I have a minute I'll go through those options, although I'm not sure what I'm looking for beyond the absence of lauryl sulfate. Any tips?
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 02-05-2014 11:36 PM
Does anyone know what good ingredients we should be looking for? Also helpful would be to know what the bad ones are to avoid.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 02-06-2014 07:34 AM
David, the big drawback to all these as xerostomia sufferers; we have high issues with caries development. Most of them have -0- fluoride. We need a fluoride delivery vehicle.
Posted By: Uptown Re: Biotene products - 02-06-2014 04:21 PM
Brian, have you looked at some of the phenol antioxidants used in the PerioSciences hydrating toothpaste?

Phloretin

Ferulic Acid

Also, they add:

Sodium hyaluronate which is also used as an injection into knees to avoid knee transplants.

Echinacea purpurea for it's sialogogue properties.

Sodium ascorbyl phosphate for vitamin C to suppress bacteria growth.

Hydroxyapatite for it's remineralization properties.

Sodium monofluorophosphate 0.76% which is much lower than the Prevident 5000 I use.

Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 02-07-2014 03:08 AM
Thanks, Brian. A critical point to be sure and one I was conveniently forgetting. Here's another TP from Walgreen's called The Natural Dentist Healthy Teeth and Gums Anti-Cavity Toothpaste:

Active Ingredients

Sodium Fluoride (0.24%) (0.15% w/v Fluoride Ion)Anticavity

Inactive Ingredients

Vegetable Glycerin , Silica , Water (Purified) , Sorbitol , Xylitol , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Gel , Cellulose Gum , Titanium Dioxide , Natural Flavors , Echinacea Angustifolia (Coneflower) , Goldenseal , Calendula (Calendula Officinalis) Flower , Xanthan Gum , Citric Acid , Grapefruit Seed Extract

I note that my (old formula I think) last remaining Biotene tube lists as its only active ingredient Sodium Monofluorophosphate (0.14% w/v fluoride ion).
My girlfriend's Crest has Sodium fluoride 0.243% (0.15% w/v fluoride ion)

Here's the full link to the Dentist's Natural listing:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/the-natural-dentist-healthy-teeth--gums-anti-cavitytoothpaste%2c-peppermint-twist/ID=prod6141850-product

Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 02-14-2014 07:29 PM
Bonjour la gagne!

Its been a while but I am resurfacing on the other side of my hubby's radiation treatments. Toute finis!

Brian where did your signature quote come from? Is it your own? Everytime I see it I respond very personally to it, I guess its the art teacher in me. With your permission I would love to add it to my email and twitter accounts. ' The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant'.

I ordered from BioXtra from a sympathetic fellow, I ordered a box of twelve oral gel and the price went from 10.99 to 5.00$/bottle and a box of twelve oral gel spay and the price went down to 3.00$/bottle. They threw in a free moistening mouth wash and gentel toothpast which by the way has fluoride!

The ingredients are listed (as well as their purpose) in the frequently asked section. They list four enzymes and three are the exact same as the old Biotene formula. (Glucose oxidase, lysozyme, lactoferrin) (also immunoglobulin-protein antibodies and colostrum-antibacteria)

I aslo ordered one of each product from perioscience but am worried about the fact that the ingredients are based around antioxidents. I do not know if my worry is founded, only that there was a resent PubMed study linking antioxidents supplements to blocking the immune system's response to cancer. I might just use that product myself. http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20140129/could-antioxidants-speed-up-cancer-progression

Let me know what you think, oh and I will post my husband's thoughts on BioXtra once we get them.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 02-15-2014 04:38 AM
One of my many mentors in my private sector life said it to me, and like you, it stuck to me.

I like it because in all things we essentially live a life of service if we are to find true meaning in our short time here. Service is a broad description, and reaches far away from what we think of here on these boards, or at the foundation. It doesn't matter if you are a sales manager at a big pharma company ( I was at the time I think); even then you have to guide your team, define the lay of the land, not as you wish to see it, but as it really is. Define your opportunities and obstacles, big and small, almost insurmountable like Goliath, or flicked away with an effortless gesture like a gnat on your sleeve; and you need to define the journey itself, from where you are to where they need to go. You have to teach and support them and facilitate their successes, not your own - as that is a by-product of theirs and will come in due time.

At the end of the process you have to acknowledge that nothing we accomplish in life is done just through our own efforts. We are standing on the shoulders of those that came before us, that figured things out that we added to, that broke the ground so our efforts could be more productive. To those people, and to the people on your team, if you receive any accolades at all, you need to remember to thank them for helping you, and making your journey even possible. I alone was OCF for so many years, until I was slowly able to surround myself with caring people and help them realize their own successes, in coming back from a disease, or guiding them in their helping others on the journey themselves.

There are so many examples in this life, but I am always turned off my the "self made man" concept. He doesn't exist. No one excels in a vacuum of pure individualism or thought. But those are not my words in the quote, they just resonate with me, and been proven true, in what I have learned from building companies to building a non-profit. I did little of it alone, and I never take credit for any of it without acknowledgement of my own facilitators and supporters, without whom OCF would not even exist. Not the least of them is my wife who let me sell the beach house in Laguna, that we could never afford to buy again, to gather together the seed money to start things that would become OCF many years ago. Her going back to work for the last 14 years has made it possible for me to work without compensation at OCF and follow my passion. That is (on this valentines day) the epitome of true love.

So please feel free to use it, it is not mine, and I hope it resonates with others who will buy into the message.
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 02-15-2014 12:01 PM
Brian, you, your wife, and all the OCF team who dedicate themselves here are jewels in the hearts of so many. A source of strenght and brilliance, an insperation to all to become part of something greater than themselves. My husband was instrumental to my own realization. In his deepest hour of need, when all I could do was hold him he turned to me and said, 'I want to give'. I felt a sense of relief as I knew he had somehow found meaning through his suffering and I replied, 'I will support you in all of you aspire'. He ignited something profound in me both through his own realization and the pains and joys that we shared.

A big thank you to the OCF and all the sholders it stands on!
Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 02-16-2014 12:02 PM
So well said, Brian - and Sophie, your words brought back to me that same difficult time in my son's recovery - that very low point in his suffering, when all I could do was reach over and hold him in my arms, hoping he could feel some of the strength and love that I had received from everyone at OCF, and know that we could survive whatever the future brought to us. Thank you to all at OCF who made that possible!
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 02-16-2014 09:35 PM
Its so true Anne-Marie, the support each person gets when they land in this forum is astounding and beautiful. There is true camaraderie, hope and desires shared here which makes a world of difference when you are terrified and going through the thick of it all.
Sophie :O))
Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 02-17-2014 04:26 PM
Brian Your message has already started to resonate with others. I sent your post to my daughter who teaches leadership classes for Knoxville Police Dept and this is what she replied (colon here)
quote mark
Thanks for sending me this. I have read it several times and continue to understand it better and find new meaning each time. Last week while in the class in Nashville we were told that leadership is the abandonment of self interest. I think this says it much better and his (Brian's) explanation says it much better. Since he does say that it can be borrowed, I think I will use it as a personal mantra and for when I teach others about leadership. end quote

PS diacritical marks left out and message shortened because the Gremlin Glitch got me with blank message.



Posted By: Anne-Marie Re: Biotene products - 02-17-2014 04:31 PM
I'm continually astounded with all we learn here not only about Biotene and oral cancer, but many things that go way beyond and have the power to continually inform and encourage and improve others' lives.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 02-24-2014 04:31 AM
I have lived a charmed existence mostly, one in which others saw something in me they thought worthy of nourishing and mentoring, something which I did not see or feel myself. Some of them were really extraordinary, visionary leaders, without any qualifiers put on that definition. You can always sense when you are in the company of one. Those real leaders can help us overcome our own shortcomings, our complacency, our individual selfishness, our weakness and deepest fears (especially of failure); and lead us to accomplish better things than we could do were we not in their presence. They inspire us to excel, to try harder by their unspoken life example, their charisma and confidence. Their company and attitude is infectious, and contagious. You want to excel in their presence. Leadership is a quality that is difficult to put a finite definition on, but when you are around it you most certainly recognize it, perhaps in a very subliminal way. It has nothing to do with social status, authority, or rank, something anyone who has been in the military can tell you.

More stripes on a uniform or stars on a shoulder do not make leaders. But there are those in the field that you intrinsically are drawn to and wiling to follow into the gates of hell. You know who they are when you are around them. They are not necessarily higher rank than you, but men follow their lead without hesitation when things get hot. Universally I have found them humble, eager to applaud your successes, which often it seems in retrospect, you would not have been achieved without their facilitation or guidance.

Leadership is an interesting topic, and few agree on what it actually is. To some it is just a person that can get others to accomplish a task. If you have read this far you know I am not a believer in that school of thought. I am not even sure that it can be taught, though books abound on the subject of leadership. I am however sure, that certain principles of leadership can be applied by those of use without the natural charisma that inspires others, and to that end I still aspire to learn more about being one. OCF, if it is ever to be truly extraordinary, needs volunteers, people vested in the cause, people motivated to help others behind them on this path, and so much more. Without leadership those people will not participate, and without them, OCF will not be the vehicle of change that I always have hoped it would be.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 03-10-2014 03:59 PM
Ok, well. All of these posts by Brian and others have been inspiring and encouraging and I've enjoyed reading them. With utmost respect, if folks don't mind, I'd like to diverge back to the original thrust of the thread for just a bit.

To wit:

I have been using The Natural Dentist All in One Fluoride toothpaste 5 oz. for maybe 3 weeks now. Ordered it online from (I think) drugstore.com. And I hope it's good in the long term because I ordered 5 of the suckers.

It foams up a bit more than Biotene but has a fresh cinammon-y taste, not my personal favorite but I'm getting used to it. Feels pretty good and I'd give it the thumbs up so far. In a month I'm going in for a teeth cleaning, and it happens that the hygenist I go to is in fact a dentist herself so I'll definitely be asking her opinion.

That's it for today.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 03-10-2014 04:53 PM
I hope to have some samples this week of the new product. I think initially there will only be a few tubes, for OCF's initial impression, but the idea was that we would get about 50 if that went well to have others try. Obviously those in this thread will be the target for those extra sample tubes. Will keep you advised.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 03-11-2014 04:17 PM
Thanks, Brian. It'd be great to do a side by side comparison with the stuff I bought.
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 03-11-2014 05:24 PM
My husband has tryed 'BioXtra' and found that the toothpast and mouthwash burnt quit a bit. He has reverted to using the 'GreenBeaver' toothpast which doesn't burn but also doesn't have the important fluoride ingredient.

As for the oral gel spray, my husband said that it stings less and he does use it sometimes at night but he only find it helps a little. Today, he is one month post radiation so maybe this is why everything from mouthwash to pepper still burns his mouth.

Wow Brian thank you for sharing, I am enjoying getting to know you better. You are right, the great leaders are the ones at your side when you least expect it!
Posted By: Vic Re: Biotene products - 03-13-2014 11:16 PM
Oh no! My husband relies heavily on Biotene mouth spray due to no saliva glands. In Sept. 2013 I noticed it was off the shelves so I called the company who stated they removed that product due to mislabeling regarding the sugar content. It would probably come back into the market around January 2014. In the meantime I looked everywhere for any mouth spray product and only found CVS brand spray. My husband actually said it sprayed better than the Biotene but was more expensive. I ordered several bottles at a time from a local CVS but now it is not available and the manager said it looks like it will be discontinued. Does anyone have any ideas?
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 03-15-2014 07:11 PM
I also used the Biotene mouth spray as well as the toothpaste and mouthwash, and I am very disappointed with GSK for changing a great product.

Another OC survivor had recommended an oral spray by MedActive that I've been using for about 6 months now and I do like it. It is expensive, and is carried by only a few pharmacies, but you can order it directly from the company's website.
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 03-16-2014 03:34 AM
Hi there, my husband tryed the last product from BioExtra, the mouth gel and said that it did not sting and that it helped moisten and freshen his mouth for about 20 minutes. It was the last product he tried but the most satisfying! I ordered a box of twelve from the US
Posted By: Vic Re: Biotene products - 03-16-2014 07:00 PM
There are so many knowledgeable people on this website I can't express myself anywhere near in comparison but can say how truly thankful I am that I have found you. Each comment or forum I have viewed gives me a sense of strength and I value each person here. I wish my husband was a computer person but he is not; nor the type to get started. He relies totally on me and I thank you for all information. To get back to the topic of "Biotene" replacement products; what is the name of the sample products you are checking out, Brian? I have few options as far as pharmacies (or drug stores as they used to call them) in the area I live so I need to investigate more. I look forward to getting more comfortable using this site and learning more.
Posted By: rdb Re: Biotene products - 03-16-2014 11:54 PM
for what its worth, I live in Campbell River B.C. Canada, Our local Wall Mart store still carries the old Biotene toothpaste formula, so I stocked up a couple months back, looked again yesterday and its still on the shelf $6.95 a tube, so i picked up a couple more tubes. must be old stock i guess. regards Dave.
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 03-17-2014 12:15 AM
Did you check the ingredients to make sure it was the old formula? Several pages back the old formula's ingredients were posted.

PS....rdb--- Please add a signature when you can. It helps us to better help you. I should have sent you a message when you first joined. I will resend it just in case I missed you. The message will give you directions on how to make your signature as well as other forum tips. Thanks!
Posted By: Wordless Re: Biotene products - 03-19-2014 08:43 PM
I'm new here - found this site searching for replacement for Biotene products due to formula change. I HAVE discovered a very good replacement for the toothpaste - expensive ($14.00/tube), but the ingredients are solidly helpful. It is called PerioBiotic Toothpaste, made by Designs for Health. It's sold on a number of websites. I found free shipping on LuckyVitamin.com and on PureFormulas.com. For a replacement on the Biotene mouthwash - Walgreens sells their brand containing most of the old Biotene ingredients, and Rite Aid also sells their brand containing most of the same ingredients. Now - I'm looking for the post mentioning the spray used to combat infection and aid in healing that I read a couple of days ago. So glad I've found this forum!
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 03-19-2014 11:02 PM
Wordless - if you would post the list of ingredients from PerioBiotic Toothpaste it would give us all a chance to look at things from a science perspective and not just your anecdotal endorsement (not that that isn't helpful) But we are finding lots of things out there, non contain the enzymes of the OLD biotene, so now we are looking for other alternate effective ingredients till that patent runs out next year.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 03-20-2014 04:41 AM
Designs for Health Periobiotic Toothpaste doesn't look the same as Biotene

Water� calcium glycerophosphate� xylitol� glycerin� calcium carbonate� carageenan� spearmint oil (Mentha viridis)� maltodextrin� Lactobacillus paracasei� citric acid� potassium sorbate� Yucca filamentosa powder� stevia leaf extract (Eupatorium rebaudianum bertoni).Water� calcium glycerophosphate� xylitol� glycerin� calcium carbonate� carageenan� spearmint oil (Mentha viridis)� maltodextrin� Lactobacillus paracasei� citric acid� potassium sorbate� Yucca filamentosa powder� stevia leaf extract (Eupatorium rebaudianum bertoni).
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 03-20-2014 08:31 AM
Greetings to everyone -- I registered for this forum tonight because I spotted this thread on Biotene and Biotene alternatives in a Google search and wanted to keep up with it.

I belong to a large online community of sleep apnea patients who use various positive airway pressure (PAP) devices (all commonly referred to as "cpap"). Many of us deal with significant dry mouth issues due to the drying effects of PAP therapy, especially for those who are on very high pressure settings and those who have a tendency to mouth breathe while using PAP. We had a thread going a while back about the discontinuation of the original Biotene.

I just finished up the last tube of the original Biotene formula that I had stashed so I'd like to keep up with what you all are finding. So far I've found the Rite Aid mouth rinse retains the enzymes in their formula. I'll be happy to share anything I find out with all of you as well. Thanks for all your contributions so far.

Kudos to your community for taking a stand and discontinuing your endorsement of the Biotene line. We all feel the burn of the new formula in our mouths, maybe GSK will feel the burn in their wallets?

Best wishes to all -- kaiasgram
Posted By: lstrup Re: Biotene products - 03-27-2014 02:22 AM
I have phoned their product support lines and have written reviews on line, I am SO disappointed. Oral gel had contributed such a great comfort level to my day to day challenges. I will continue to correspond and post reviews. The only good thing is that I discovered this group in my pursuit of Biotene reviews!
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 03-30-2014 10:09 PM
These have enzymes, but I don't know to what level

Rite Aid Dry Mouth Wash
PURIFIED WATER, SORBITOL, XYLITOL, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, POLOXAMER 407, POLYVINYLPYRROLIDONE, SODIUM BENZOATE, BENZOIC ACID, FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, ZINC GLUCONATE, ALOE VERA, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, NATURAL ENZYMES: AMYLASE, AMYLOGLUCOSIDASE, GLUCOXIDASE, LACTOFERRIN, LYSOZYME, PAPAIN, PEPTIZYME.

Rite Aid Dry Mouth Spray
PURIFIED WATER, XYLITOL, PROPANEDIOL, CELLULOSE GUM, BENZOIC ACID, ORGANIC FLAVOR, XANTHAN GUM, ALOE VERA, ZINC GLUCONATE, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, PHYTIC ACID, LACTOFERRIN, LYSOZYME, GLUCOXIDASE, AMYLASE, PAPAIN, AMYLOGLUCOSIDASE, PEPTIZYME
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 05-13-2014 12:26 PM
Hi Brian
My husband Stephen uses 'bioxtra' toothpast
Active Ingredient:
Sodium Monofluorophosphate 1.14% w/w (1500 ppm fluoride ion)
Xylitol
Colostrum Extract
Potassium Thiocyanate
Glucose Oxidase
Lactoperoxidase System
Lactoferrin
Lysozyme

Stephen also used Green Beaver(green apple) directly after radiation because it didn't burn but switched to 'bioXtra' for the fluoride (also no SLS)

I also ordered 'Periosciences' hydrating antioxidant toothpaste which he did not use because I wasn't certain if a post oral cancer patient should use antioxidants daily.

You guys are Always in my thoughts, you can always reach me thru a PM.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 05-27-2014 05:17 PM
Does anyone know a good place to order Bioxtra products that will be shipped to the U.S.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 05-27-2014 05:56 PM
Andrew, it shows up here on Amazon, this is a link through OCF:

http://www.amazon.com/GUM-Bioxtra-M...01213284&sr=8-1&keywords=bioxtra
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 05-28-2014 12:34 PM
Does anyone know if or when their gum will be produced again?
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 05-28-2014 02:27 PM
[quote=David2]Andrew, it shows up here on Amazon, this is a link through OCF:

http://www.amazon.com/GUM-Bioxtra-M...01213284&sr=8-1&keywords=bioxtra [/quote]

Thanks. I saw them. I guess I should have explained more. Every place I try to order has shipping costs that don't make sense. Usually if I buy in quantity I save on shipping cost per item. But when ordering bioxtra, all the places I've looked charge five dollars shipping for one tube, ten dollars shipping for two, etc. Usually shipping costs increase more slowly as the quantity goes up.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 05-28-2014 03:23 PM
I believe we are within 30-60 days of having product from the new manufacturer that will meet all of our requirements. We tried their last samples a week ago, they are in product packaging design now, and then the printing of the tubes and filling. I will keep you all updated as I hear more from them.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 05-28-2014 04:03 PM
That's great news, Brian. Thanks a million.

Andrew, I've been using something called The Natural Dentist Healthy Teeth & Gums All In One Fluouride toothpaste (a... um... mouthful of a name). I showed it to my hygienist, who is also a DDS herself, and she said it was fine. Believe I got it on Amazon as well, you might have a look until Brian's new formula is ready to roll.
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 05-28-2014 10:09 PM
[quote=David2]I've been using something called The Natural Dentist Healthy Teeth & Gums All In One Fluouride toothpaste [/quote]

I'm glad you mentioned this. I bought a different one from the same company. But yours looks better. And great news from Brian. The toothpaste is the most important part.

I might as well post comments on other products. I've tried mouth rinse from Bioxtra and Rite Aid. The Rite Aid has a stronger mint flavor, which I think is a disadvantage. But the Rite Aid is not so strong I cannot use it. The Rite Aid comes in a squeeze bottle, which I like. The Bioxtra you pour into a little plastic cup they include. Rite Aid costs less.

I also got the oral gel from Bioxtra. It's okay. It coats the teeth. But it disappears more quickly than I'd like. But right now it's the best thing I can find.

And I got the spray from Rite Aid. It's gentler than old Biotene.

As for the Bioxtra toothpaste, it stings my mouth. I have to rinse with water right away.
Posted By: donfoo Re: Biotene products - 05-29-2014 03:06 AM
Great news Brian!

It is pretty amazing to think an effort by a very small entity could get a product to market so quickly and on the mark! Kudos to you and OCF!
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 05-29-2014 12:17 PM
Do their new products include the gum?
Posted By: Maria Re: Biotene products - 05-29-2014 10:29 PM
Great to hear the toothpaste is coming. Thanks much, Brian!
Maria
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 06-18-2014 08:43 PM
I was told by my periodontal office that USC school of dentistry had a staff meeting to discuss what to do about the Biotene issue. The sentiment was the Biotene products are no long suitable, and other solutions need to be found. So it's not just us patients who are concerned. And it won't be long before GSK has to stop claiming Biotene is the number one recommended brand.
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 06-18-2014 09:43 PM
I don't recall ever seeing commercials on TV for Biotene until after they changed the formula. I hope this hurts GSK big time financially! Unfortunately many folks don't know about the change and I've seen some doctors still recommending it. I do my best to educate my doctors about the change. I'm glad to hear USC school of dentistry is aware - need to get the medical community informed and involved. Thanks for posting this.
Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 06-22-2014 01:47 PM
I just received a letter from GSK advising me that they will no longer mfg the Biotene Gum. They also gave me a $1.00 off coupon. WOW I feel so much better now.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 06-22-2014 04:40 PM
It IS the little things, isn't it, D1? Given your profession I'll leave it up to you to figure out what a buck off something that doesn't exist anymore comes to. Me I'm just happy if I finish my peanut butter sandwich and the comics at the same time. (with plenty of water to be sure!)
Posted By: Uptown Re: Biotene products - 06-22-2014 11:30 PM
I hope you share the coupon with all of us, David.
Posted By: msweet2995 Re: Biotene products - 06-24-2014 08:04 PM
I was wondering why my tongue started burning, thanks for the update
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 06-27-2014 08:10 PM
I've been working my way through the toothpaste brands on this page: http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/womens-health/natural-toothpaste-ingredients-0307. I've tried Natural Dentist, Kiss My Face, and Tom's of Maine. All of them sting my mouth. I was really surprised that Tom's did, because I've heard it's so gentle. And maybe it would be, if they didn't load it up with so much mint.

My dentist gave me several of those small travel size samples bags of Biotene products. They are old enough that each one has a tiny sample of the original Biotene toothpaste. I had forgotten how gentle that stuff is. There were zero negative effects. It says it contains mint, but I can hardly detect it. This is how toothpaste should work. Too bad GSK wrecked it.
Posted By: KathyO Re: Biotene products - 07-24-2014 08:21 PM
Hello everyone, I'm new to this site. I've used Biotene gum, paste & rinse for almost 10 yr. I'm primarily looking for a good substitute for Biotene gum with paste & rinse close seconds, so this discussion has been very helpful.
Thanks to an earlier post I have contacted BioXtra and hope to get samples of their products. I've learned to stop buying products if I can get samples first. Although I do not have OC, I do have BMS (Burning Mouth Syndrome) so very much relate to problems with dry mouth and burning pain. Biotene gum is the only product I've been able to use throughout the day which helps take the edge off the burn in my mouth and stimulates
saliva. Because of other medical issues I can't use sprays, gels, lozenges etc. I've tried them all.
I realize this discussion is mostly about paste, but since other types of products have been mentioned I thought I share brands that I haven't seen mentioned. Hopefully some will be new to you and something you can consider. I'll give website links for more info:
XyliMelts Discs (really helps to stimulate saliva)Both Mint and unflavored: http://www.drugstore.com/xylimelts-discs-for-dry-mouth-mild-mint/qxp214638

OraMoist tabs: http://www.oramoist.com/

MighTeaFlow by Camellix; has an array of dry mouth products developed by 2 dentists: https://www.camellix.com/products
They will send samples if you ask. It's a newer company and they are really trying to break into the market.

Also, just as an aside, I called Biotene and told them that still showing the gum & spray on their website as available products is unconscionable. Bottom line: they don't care.



Posted By: davidcpa Re: Biotene products - 07-24-2014 09:57 PM
When I inquired they sent me a $1.00 off coupon so they are not ALL that bad...lol
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 07-25-2014 02:26 PM
At a recent SPOHNC meeting, we were given samples of the "NeutraSal Dry Mouth Gum." It contains calcium, phosphate, Xylitol, Sorbitol, and relieves oral dryness, stimulates saliva flow, inhibits acid producing bacteria, prevents cavities. Not sure if it's a prescription like the oral rinse is, but may come with it's order.
Posted By: KathyO Re: Biotene products - 07-25-2014 03:52 PM
Thx for the tip on NeutralSal gum. I'll give the company a call.

Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 07-25-2014 05:23 PM
Even though I'm angry at Biotene, I tried the Gentle Mint version of their toothpaste. It is actually burns less than any of the others I tried.

I also found that GC (the makers of MI Paste) have an oral gel called GC Dry Mouth Gel. I tried it. It's very gentle. The flavor level is very mild. It doesn't seem to have as many helpful ingredients as Bioxtra, though. Diglycerol, water, gum carrageenan, sodium citrate, flavor, and ethylparapen.

Posted By: KathyO Re: Biotene products - 07-30-2014 09:11 PM
PaulB, thanks for the tip on NeutraSal gum. I called the company and they are sending me a package of the gum--free sample.

For everyone's info, a RX is not needed for the gum. It's normally sold in a 10 pack box, $22.50 (at least I think that's what I was told).
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 07-31-2014 02:54 PM
Thanks for the follow-up KathyO.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 08-02-2014 04:40 PM
Whatever else they may be about, Biotene's sure making a big ad push. I see their spots all the time these days.
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 09-05-2014 07:42 AM
[quote=Brian Hill on May 28]I believe we are within 30-60 days of having product from the new manufacturer that will meet all of our requirements. We tried their last samples a week ago, they are in product packaging design now, and then the printing of the tubes and filling. I will keep you all updated as I hear more from them. [/quote]

Has anyone heard an update on this? I haven't seen any changes in the products currently on the store shelves.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 09-10-2014 03:05 AM
They are still waiting on their FDA approval. The product development is done, packaging designed, and the FDA is the usual hold up. I will let you all know when I know. I am expecting that they will make a bunch available to the foundation, which we can make available to you. Remember I am not in control of any of this, just passing on what I know each time.
Posted By: Sandy1028 Re: Biotene products - 09-27-2014 10:03 PM
Interesting. Definitely something I need to know about. New to the group, RO explained about possibly having dry mouth permanently. I am glad I read this post. Thanks
Posted By: Kevin - Memphis Re: Biotene products - 09-29-2014 06:24 PM
Great News, thanks Brian

[quote=Brian Hill]They are still waiting on their FDA approval. The product development is done, packaging designed, and the FDA is the usual hold up. I will let you all know when I know. I am expecting that they will make a bunch available to the foundation, which we can make available to you. Remember I am not in control of any of this, just passing on what I know each time. [/quote]
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 10-06-2014 09:40 AM
[quote=Brian Hill]They are still waiting on their FDA approval. The product development is done, packaging designed, and the FDA is the usual hold up. I will let you all know when I know. I am expecting that they will make a bunch available to the foundation, which we can make available to you. Remember I am not in control of any of this, just passing on what I know each time. [/quote]
I just caught up with this thread -- thanks very much for the update!
Posted By: julieann Re: Biotene products - 10-08-2014 04:30 AM
Great news, Brian. I've been waiting forever, it seems, for this product. julieann
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 11-01-2014 02:21 PM
Any day now!!! Getting excited for The unveiling. Thank you for caring so much! Sophie
Posted By: Uptown Re: Biotene products - 11-15-2014 05:49 PM
Thanks. I didn't know Biotene has these flavors.
Posted By: samkl Re: Biotene products - 12-17-2014 04:00 AM
Hi there. Just wondering if there is any update on the progress of this product through the FDA?
Posted By: Kevin - Memphis Re: Biotene products - 12-17-2014 03:28 PM
My dentist recommended I try a product she knew about, BioXtra. Looks like a Canadian company.


Does anybody have any good information about these people?


Kevin

Posted By: KathyO Re: Biotene products - 01-18-2015 09:20 PM
Hi Kevin,
The Canadian company is only a distributor of BioXtra. I forget where it's produced. I originally emailed the Canadian company,but after getting no response I ordered the mouthwash and paste via Amazon UK. Unfortunately, I can't use either because they contain Fragrance, which the Canadian company FAQ page does not list: http://www.bioxtra.ca/FAQ.html
Although this product is very odor neutral, the "fragrance" ingredient seems to be added for flavor as one if it's ingredients was a citrus flavor oil. I can't use any product containing flavor oils only. They are simply too strong for me and make my mouth burn. But my mouth is very sensitive and others might be able to tolerate what I can't. I know in a previous post a member in the UK said she purchased BioXtra paste (I believe), liked it and was using it.
Hope this info is useful to you. Know it's more than a month after you originally asked for feedback.
Posted By: penred Re: Biotene products - 01-23-2015 06:45 AM
Hi Guys,
I have Sjogrens, and live in Australia.

Just an FYI - While I am waiting for the old Biotene to come back, I am using an Australian brand called OralSeven which has a toothpaste, mouthwash and gel. According to the pharmacist who sold it to me, they use pretty much the same formula as the old Biotene.
It seems from their website that they sell in Europe, Asia and Australia but I'm sure you could online shop if you were desperate from an online pharmacy

here is the website

http://www.oralseven.com/main/

can't wait for the Biotene to come back!

Pen
Posted By: JGD99 Re: Biotene products - 02-23-2015 10:13 PM
Hi all,

I have been reading through this thread (not every post on all 16 pages), but I am not quite sure what the status of biotene is. I'll summarize my limited understanding, and perhaps someone reading can fill in the blanks?

I have been using the mouthwash once a day, as part of a nightly ritual. I've heard that the company's product was changed when another corporation bought it, and is now considered inferior?

And, that a new formulation is supposedly in the works, but it's been a "slow train coming". When I was in treatment (summer of '14), the nurses were recommending it, apparently unaware of the changes.

What are people using in lieu of Biotene?

Sorry if this seems like the Dept of Redundancy Department, but I'm having trouble reading the runes...
Posted By: Andrew111 Re: Biotene products - 02-23-2015 10:55 PM
What I noticed with the change was 1. They removed the enzymes that simulate saliva's protective abilities in fighting bacteria. 2. They made the formula so irritating to my mouth I could no longer use it. If you read the reviews at places that sell Biotene products you will see many angry comments from people who are not in this forum, and who are saying the same things.

I stopped using their mouthwash and switched to Rite-Aid Dry Mouth mouth wash. It has the enzymes in it, but I have no way of knowing if this is only some trace amount that does no good.

As for their toothpaste, I found that Biotene now has a Gentle Mint flavor that is not too harsh on my mouth. It is also easier on my mouth than all other brands I tried. To make up for lack of enzymes, I use a xylitol tablet after brushing to encourage saliva flow.

Posted By: JGD99 Re: Biotene products - 02-25-2015 10:18 PM
Thanks, Andrew!
Posted By: sophie theriault Re: Biotene products - 03-18-2015 03:36 PM
Stephen, my husband uses BioExtra: ingredients include compounds that are similar to saliva which provides protection for your mouth. Also, the toothpaste and the mouthwash have fluoride to protect your teeth.

The oral spray and gel provide temporary relief for dry mouth. I notice Stephen uses this at night when he is tired.

PS:if you order in batches of 12, you get a huge discount.
Posted By: margaret_in_ma Re: Biotene products - 04-12-2015 02:36 AM
Any updates on the new Biotene replacement? I'm almost out of my stockpiled tubes of the original stuff!
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 04-12-2015 12:42 PM
Margaret, not sure if you noticed the dental study thread. Check out part 2 of the survey. They are testing dry mouth products. The members receive a 2 week supply. Maybe this could help?

DENTAL SURVEY PART 1...
Online Dental Survey



DENTAL SURVEY PART 2....
Part 2 Product Testing and 2 part online survey
*** part 2 is only available to patients in the US, Canada or Mexico
Posted By: margaret_in_ma Re: Biotene products - 04-12-2015 05:50 PM
Thank you, Christine! I did see this after I had posted. I completed both surveys. YAY!
Posted By: poiuyt Re: Biotene products - 04-13-2015 01:30 PM
I completed both surveys and have not heard back from them since. Still waiting for my samples. frown
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 04-13-2015 02:20 PM
Thank you Margaret and Poiuyt!!!

I will check to see whats going on with the samples. Im sending you a PM to get more specific details.
Posted By: Uptown Re: Biotene products - 04-14-2015 01:19 AM
I received a package today.
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 04-14-2015 02:37 AM
Thanks for participating, Paul!!! Glad your package has arrived.
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 04-14-2015 12:19 PM
Thanks, I think that was Uptown. I didn't receive any samples yet.
Posted By: PaulB Re: Biotene products - 04-14-2015 01:23 PM
My samples were just delivered. Thank you!
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 04-14-2015 03:53 PM
Oppps!!! Im sorry!!!

I had read one of your posts just before this. Thank you both Uptown and Paul smile
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 09-24-2015 09:16 PM
Brian,

Any update on the Biotene replacement products?

I'm out of the Biotene mouthwash and only one tube left of the toothpaste, so I've been using it sparingly. I've been trying other brands, and haven't found a mouthwash that does not burn even if I dilute it with water (50/50 ratio).

I tried a number of toothpastes including Tom's of Maine which is advertised as "natural". Their "Simply White / Clean Mint" one burns as much as Crest and Colgate. So as others have suggested, I tried their children's toothpaste - that doesn't burn (which is great), but doesn't have the enzymes that were in Biotene. I do use a prescription fluoride toothpaste once a day (burns a bit), but at least I'm getting some fluoride.

I've been using MedActive Oral Relief Spray and Lozenges - both work pretty good for dry mouth relief.

I'm mainly looking for toothpaste and mouthwash. Any suggestions?
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 09-24-2015 11:51 PM
Susan, I've been using "The Natural Dentist healthy teeth and gums All in One" fluoride toothpaste. It's advertised (on the tube) as having "no SLS". Doubtless a good thing although at the moment I can't quite tell you what that means. Someone here will know. Believe I got it on Amazon, or possibly Walgreen's online.

From what I read of your posts I likely don't have the sensitivity you do... but you might give it a try, or at least find the label and see if you think it will work for you.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 09-28-2015 01:48 AM
SLS stands for sodium lauryl sulfate, which is widely known in toothpastes to be a tissue irritant, particularly problematic if your have herpes simplex lesions, or aphthous ulcers in your mouth. HSV1 lesions and aphthous ulcers are very common throughout the US population so having this ingredient in a paste is not a great thing.

It's essentially a detergent, but there are many others to choose from that are far less irritating. It chosen often in cosmetics, shampoos, toothpaste etc. because it is very inexpensive. There are some companies that attempt to hide the fact that it is a chemical to be avoided, some go so far as to suggest it is a "natural" product (whatever that means today as it is a flimsy word tool to get people to trust things they buy) because it comes from coconuts. To anyone unaware this seems like it should make it ok to include in "natural" products. Having said that, many "naturally" occurring products in the world are carcinogenic, poisonous, hormone altering, (I could go on ad nauseum here), and essentially toxic. Manufacturers that use it say that yes, there are thousands of negative scientific articles on SLS, but it is an issue of "volume and frequency of exposure"... While true, I choose to avoid it, life has enough things in it that are already assaults on my biology, why add to the burden.

If you could choose a dentifrice that did not contain this ingredient, it would be a better choice than one that does.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 09-29-2015 12:10 AM
Thanks, Brian. Wise words. I've been on the Natural Dentist stuff for over a year and like it just fine. No problems. But I'd still be interested in trying others.
Posted By: Brian Hill Re: Biotene products - 09-30-2015 03:12 PM
We have searched for something to replace Biotene for over a year now. I have chased every possible lead, and followed a company that had the right thing, that could not get through the FDA because they didn't have the science data to support the enzymes and associated claims. We found a product out of Spain that has a US distributor, but the costs are through the roof, and I am still trying to sort something out with them so that we could get it for our members at some kind of discount or wholesale price to make it bearable. But most of the overseas things coming here, or that we have asked to be brought here, have high prices as a result of the shipping etc. that the trip adds to the costs of the product. This seems so simple, as this is a class one FDA product and getting something through them isn't that hard - I have taken class 4 products (implantable devices) through and understand the process well. OCF is not funded to produce a product, but this sure isn't rocket science. The problem for us, if I could find some donor to underwrite the idea, is that you are looking at making a minimum number of tubes, and without selling them in Walgeens etc. (which would put us out of our non-profit world) I don't think we could make a dent in getting rid of all of them over a couple of years to people that know us.... The search goes on.
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 10-04-2015 09:19 AM
Hello, I've been following this thread for some time. The demise of the original Biotene roughly coincided with my starting to sleep with a CPAP machine (very drying), and shortly after that I added a mouth-drying medication to the mix. I've had a lot of dental problems as a result of all these changes.

After doing some reading here and research on my own I settled on Sensodyne Pronamel which does not contain SLS. I use two rinses, the CVS dry mouth rinse which claims to still have the protective enzymes (no fluoride), and ACT Total Dry Mouth rinse with fluoride which to my surprise does not burn my mouth (most rinses do). I've been tempted to try the ACT dry mouth toothpaste because it is SLS free and has xylitol, but I haven't found out yet what the RDA (abrasiveness rating) is. Sensodyne Pronamel has a very low RDA -- unfortunately I just read that it is a GSK product and I hate sending any money their way.

Thank you, Brian and all who are contributing their experiences and ideas about solutions/alternatives for dry mouth care. On the sleep apnea/cpap forums we still have discussions about dry mouth care and I appreciate what I learn here so I can pass it along.

Posted By: CathyS Re: Biotene products - 10-12-2015 07:37 PM
I was just at my Drs this morning for a followup of a sore they were watching. Just spent 2 weeks using a steroid rinse (gross!). He was a little concerned about some patches on my cheek and since I suffer from dry mouth he wants me to rinse with Biotene for the next month and see if it helps. Is this all for naught?
Posted By: Susan2992 Re: Biotene products - 10-13-2015 09:49 PM
Cathy,

I haven't tried the "new & improved" Biotene rinse yet, but their "new" toothpaste burns my mouth. I've been looking for a replacement mouth rinse for a while now, and the only brand I found that does not burn my mouth is Act. Act has a few different types and I think there is a dry mouth one. If you try the Biotene rinse, post a note here to let us know.

Did your doctor know that Biotene was bought by GSK and they changed all the formulas on all the products? Biotene products used to be good and were recommended by many doctors and other medical professionals.
Posted By: ssax Re: Biotene products - 12-10-2015 05:54 AM
Has anyone tried a product called Oranurse Flavorless Toothpaste? Like Brian, I'm constantly trying different toothpastes in the hope of finding a decent replacement for the original formula Biotene. This toothpaste was developed for autistic children who had trouble tolerating the taste of regular toothpastes. It contains no SLS and lists its ingredients as: Hydrated silica, glycerine, sorbitol, xylitol, cellulose gum and sodium benzoate.

I've ordered a tube through Amazon but it is also available on other sites. Hope this of some use.
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 12-10-2015 11:43 AM
Havent tried it but the toothpaste it does sound like it should help OC patients/survivors. Xylitol helps with saliva.

Anyone who orders thru Amazon please go thru the link on our page. Its very easy and does not cost one cent more. By clicking on the Amazon box prior to shopping on Amazon a small portion of your total gets kicked back to OCF. Sorry, I cant remember if its 5% or 6%. This doesnt sound like much but it all adds up to help OCF manage some of its expenses.
Posted By: KathyO Re: Biotene products - 03-03-2016 12:48 AM
I've been using Squigle Tooth Builder (Sensitive), 36% Xylitol.
It has no flavor nor fluoride and for me, does not burn. I checked w/ my dentist and he said I really don't need flouride. For now, however, I'm mixing it w/ a small amount of the original Biotene paste (still have a couple of tubes). http://www.squigle.com/tbingredients.html

If you want/need fluoride try Squigle Enamel Saver, also has 36 % Xylitol + flavor (peppermint).
http://www.squigle.com/squigleingredients.html

I haven't tried the Enamel Saver because I generally do not do well w/ natural flavors.

Check out the links for exact ingredients. No SLS. Per Squigle only "mouth friendly ingredients" which help w/ canker sores/mouth ulcers, dry mouth and other things.

I originally ordered the Tooth Builder on Amazon, but now see the price is outrageous there. Luckyvitamin.com has it for $7.52 Only need to use a small amount.
Posted By: CArmstrong Re: Biotene products - 05-30-2016 06:33 PM
Well rats! I'm halfway through radiation and have almost finished a bottle of Biotene rinse. I was planning to get more soon. I will be paying attention here for further info and advice on comparable products. I've been told my dry mouth will be permanent to some extent so I will probably want to always have some product on hand. Thanks for the info, I wouldn't have known.
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 05-30-2016 06:51 PM
CA, so far both the CVS and the Rite-Aid generic Biotene equivalents still have the dry mouth rinse with enzymes like the original Biotene had.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 05-30-2016 10:41 PM
Thanks, Kaiasgram, that's good to know.
Posted By: CArmstrong Re: Biotene products - 06-02-2016 01:31 AM
Thank you!
Posted By: kaiasgram Re: Biotene products - 06-02-2016 03:08 AM
David and CArmstrong, you're very welcome smile
Posted By: Kevin - Memphis Re: Biotene products - 06-22-2016 01:32 AM
When we were in New Mexico earlier this month I saw a new formulation of Biotene in the local Walmart. It was in a green label bottle in lieu of the blue and said it the original flavor. I assume that it is not the original formula, that's be way too much to hope for, just a new flavor. When I got back to Memphis I have not been able to locate it here or on Amazon. Has anybody else seen or tried this product?

Posted By: troylowe06 Re: Biotene products - 07-29-2016 09:56 PM
troylowe06 i used the spray and mouthwash had to take them back even with them open they burnt my mouth you say the gum is still ok need something for dry mouth
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 07-29-2016 10:32 PM
Look for gum that has xylitol in it. Years ago when I was a kid one came out. I think its called Quench.
Posted By: David2 Re: Biotene products - 07-30-2016 04:28 PM
I use Trident. Of all the ones I've seen it lists Xylitol highest in the ingredients list. Not perfect, but then what is. (besides chocolate)
Posted By: JoYo Re: Biotene products - 08-28-2016 01:57 AM
Hi, I'm relatively new to this forum and just saw this post. I'm not sure if it was a coincidence, but I when I used the Biotene gel while I was starting my radiation treatments for OC, I developed painful white bumps on the front of my tongue where I had put most of the gel. This happened twice, after using the gel for 2-3 nights. After I stopped using the gel, the bumps went away after a few days. Has anyone else experienced this?

I have used the Biotene toothpaste and mouthwash with no problems, except the mouthwash hurt while my tongue was sore during radiation (I'm 4 weeks post-rad now).
Posted By: ChristineB Re: Biotene products - 08-28-2016 12:50 PM
Over the years I dont remember anyone mentioning they experienced white bumps after using the Biotene gel. If anyone has their mouth burn while using mouthrinse (nonalcohol type), diluting it with water should help.
Many of my friends down under have raved about these products and I've heard successes as it rolled out to other countries. I met a person from a discussion on the old Biotene products before they were sold to GSK and the real power behind the brand, the patented enzymes, were removed. She insisted I try this and I had to cycle through the box of dry mouth products I am already evaluating.

I finally got to the products and day 1 was miraculous! It balanced my oral flora within minutes and removed the horrible lactose taste I have been battling since the feeding tube in March. I started last week and picked a day I knew I had appointments and would be out and about for several hours. I used the toothpaste, waited 20 minutes to get the maximum benefit of the fluoride, then followed with the mouthwash and about 30 minutes later, I added the gel on the way out to my first appointment.

I didn't really pay attention and 5 hours were gone before I knew it and I hadn't even taken 1 sip of water to flush out the usual crud buildup in the pyriform sinus area that causes all of the choking. This is a first since around September 2003, after week 3 of radiation treatment.

My curiosity kicked in and I have tried every possible combination to see if maybe all 3 products are overkill and I could not get close without all 3. I'm not sure of the cost or how long each individual product will last so I'm not sure of the economics as health insurance refuses to cover medically needed tooth anything as far as prescriptions and I don't know if one will be needed.

This product is the first thing I have seen that gets this close to the old Biotene products and that's pretty exciting! The gel doesn't last all night like the Biotene gel, maybe close to half as long but I think it will also be an excellent product for CPAP users. That is a segment of post radiated oral cancer survivors that suffer beyond belief trying to sleep because of xeristomia.
Ed, where did you get the Oral Seven? Is this available to everyone here in the US or were you sent a sample?
Anyone needing a sample can email, [email protected] (be sure to include full name, address and phone number) or make a request by phone, 908-420-6974

The idea is try it before you buy it.
Thanks Ed! I hope everyone who needs help with their dry mouth finds relief after using the Oral Seven products.
Oral Seven Products are on sale 50% off through the end of the month via their website www.sterrehealth.com for anyone interested.

I am finding it takes about twice as much mouthwash as it does toothpaste and gel to achieve good results. I've also found the product does a phenomenal job with an ongoing "milk breath" issue I've had since radiation and it's the lactoferrin in the products that does that.

Wow, this is super great news. Going to the site now to purchase a boat load ! Thank you very much for sharing this info !
Thanks for the heads up. I have been waiting to try this product but couldn't find it anywhere in stock. Cold weather is drying me out even more, if that's possible!!
My mom is currently using the Oral 7 products and she loves them...just my two cents smile

Ed, I love the Oral 7 product I got from the walk in Dallas. By the way this is Angelia.
Hi everyone,
My team at Stanford is recommending coconut oil over otc products. Has anyone else gotten this advice?
MrsW mentioned coconut oil as something her husband was using. Sorry, but Im not sure where they are located.
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