Hi there again!

Just wanting to know your opinions on this. I was on Aptivan (lorezapam) and finished the packet last thurs. Fri & Sat - I got NO sleep, since then I've been taking Temazapam and managing about 4 hrs a night. Needless to say I'm going insane!! My energy has completely dropped and I feel like the first few weeks after chemo. I only used one packet! Is my body having withdrawal symptoms?? What should I do? I want to sleep but is even more scared of the addictivenes of these medications. Should I just relax and take it until my body has recovered? I'm going crazy from the lack of sleep on top of everything else!! Would value any opinions and advice. Please help!!

It's now 1am, not sleepy. I did fall to by my self but only for half hour, now I'm wide awake. Feel even worse tonite than previous nights. I'm hot AND cold at the same time. I feel cold but I'm also sweating?? Have taken 2 panadols for the cold/sweat and one temazapam. I hope it works, I'm going crazy trying to sleep. What should I do?? Is it the Fetanyl patch? Ive reduced it to 25 from 50 around the same time the Aptivan finished.

Those if you who were on Aptivan, how did you wean yourself if it?? I'm really scared how my body is feeling. Before all this, I probably only took 2 panadols a year! Any opinions would be much appreciated. I feel like I've been asking so many questions lately but I'm pretty desperate on this topic.

Minh

Minh

Minh,

The insomnia is caused by the opiate pain medication (fentanyl, oxy etc...) due to how those drugs work on the brain. So that's a likely cause of the insomnia...that and stress probably.

The sweats etc are more then likely withdrawel symptoms, from the reduction in dosage from the fentanyl (due to the danger of coming off fentanyl please work with you medical professionals to taper down!!) and maybe the lorazepam. Due to the fact you are on another benzo (benzodiazepine, the temazapam) it's unlikely that it's withdrawel from the lorazepam though..but stranger things have happened for sure.

The benzo's did little for me in the way of sleep. They are for "short term" insomnia only and I really don't think they are effective when used to treat insomnia brought on by the opiates. I was put on Ambien first, then Lunesta in conjuction with a benzo...even that was ineffective and cause episodes like sleep walking etc. I'd never take them again to be sure.

I'm not sure what the medical marijuana laws are like in Australia...but that's what I'd use for help sleeping. As long as you are on the pain meds, insomnia will likely be an issue..even for a while after you've stopped taking them. An FYI, both fentanyl and benzo's will cause fatigue/exhaustion.

keep your chin up, hope it helps

Eric

Thsnx Eric,
So basically I have to put up with the insomnia or go back on to Aptivan to get some rest? I'm even more scared to do the marijuana!! I'm chicken shit when it comes to drugs. Went to sleep around 2 am and now I'm up at 5 am. I have to look after two toddlers today (my baby and my niece). I'm a bit worried how I will cope. I think I will be ok, gosh lack if sleep just brings me down so much. It's torture! Wouldn't be so bad but I have the kids today. Eric, you are right about temazapam being short term help because when I take 2 I get 6 1/2 hrs, when I take 1 I get about 4 hrs but that's better than nothing!!!

Seems like the only solution for me is put up with it and go off them completely. How long do you think it will take before my body goes back to normal? Again no medics warn me about the dangers of these medication, I should have been smarter and do the research myself. I was pretty stupid/naive to just take everything they gave me without any knowledge about them. Wish I had been more proactive at the beginning.

Minh

Minh - I don't have any experience getting off sleep aids, but I do have sleep problems and can remember how it was when my children were little. If you can get the two toddlers to take naps at the same time, you should get some rest/sleep yourself. This is not the time to worry about dishes in the sink. Even a short "power nap" can help tremendously, If they don't take naps, just bring them in a room where you can lock the door - then spread towels near where you are sitting and give them a big jar of vaseline or skin lotion and let them spread this all over your feet and legs. This will be relaxing for you and will keep them busy. If the door doesn't lock, spread vaseline on the door knob. I tried an over-the-counter sleep aid and it only lasted 3-4 hours. So when I can't sleep I usually come here and see who else is up. Or I concentrate on something like my iphone scrabble, solitaire, reading, etc. Hope you start feeling better soon!

Minh,

as you are online, you have the most powerful research tool ever created in the internet at your fingertips, so use it. Drugs.com, Wikipedia, WebMD are all sources for drug information online, using one site to check the other's reliability. With that information you should be able to ask your medical professional questions and voice your concerns over what's being prescribed to you.

I do find it humorous that you have issues using marijuana but apparently are fine with taking benzo's and fentanyl. I would take the time to look up these medications and understand each. Fentanyl is the most powerful opiate available for humans...100x stronger then heroin. When I read up on Lorazepam, it scared the crap out of me.

Anyway, as far as how long it takes for your body to readjust after the pain meds, it'll be different for everyone. It took me about 6 weeks or so.

Well now that you put it like that Eric, it is rather funny isn't it? Been reading up on the drugs myself too. At least I know the reasons why Im feeling theway i do. Thanx for your replies guys, it got me to do some research on them. I'm just one of those people that keeps thinking docs knows what best for me since they are the "expert". I'm now much more proactive thanx to everyone on OCF.

Minh

Hey on a good note- I'm having a ham and cheese sandwich with loads of water to wash it down but at least I didnt have to pur�e it!!! Yay!!! Also been finding I have enough energy to look after two kids!! Think I'm doing pretty well for someone at my recovery stage!

Minh

That's great Minh! Great progress! Looking after two kids takes a lot of energy even when you are not recovering from treatment. I sometimes have a turkey sandwich or just a piece of turkey when I can't sleep. It has something in it (triptophan?) that encourages sleep. Glad you are feeling better.

Hi Minh and Anne-Marie

Tryptophan - really?

You know a great supply of tryptophan? CHOCOLATE!!!
Much easier to get from the corner shop in the middle of the night too

Hi Karen,

Oh how I would love chocolates!! But my dentist has said as little sugar as possible!!

This thing sucks, one day I can feel ok and then next day I'm in the dumps again. I'm trying really hard to wean myself off these Fetanyl patches and the Temazapam. Still only sleeping 4 hrs a night with 1 Temazapam. Gosh I hope I get some sleep soon!!!

Karen, I wish you were in Perth!!

Minh

How about this: Buy some really, really nice chocolate (something expensive, rich, bite sized and individually wrapped in foil). Meditate over it, carefully unwrap it and marvel at it's beauty. Inhale the fragrance of it and then maybe give it a little lick. When you can stand it no more, take a bite, savour the flavour, more meditation, swallow it, bask in the afterglow then ... go clean your teeth. Repeat the procedure.

Unfortunately, I suffer dreadful migraines - made worse by chocolate (I think). I can only go as far as meditating over the smell of it but I do occasionally give it a bit of a lick and if I am really desperate, I will eat just one - migraine be damned. Then I take 2 Nurofen and go and lie down.

Karen - I also get headaches from eating more than 1 or 2 pieces of chocolate but it doesn't hit me until the next morning. I guess we just have to decide if the pleasure we get from eating chocolate predominates over the pain we suffer from doing it. I suppose that works for anything we like. My favorite is the chocolate foil wrapped caramel filled chocolate. Sigh . . . . . and I eat it exactly the way you do. Small bites, savoring each tiny piece, then brush teeth.

ssshhh... if Alex finds out the headache doen't hit till the next day, I won't have an excuse to have a nap in the middle of the day or just as the washing up needs doing

OK, Karen. It will be our secret.

Hi,

Years ago, long before being diagnosed with cancer, I ended up addicted to Ativan (lorazepam), which had been prescribed for anxiety (long story). It worked frighteningly well, but weening myself off of it was one of the worst experiences of my life. I've since read that it has been prescribed as a sleep aid (and I think this is very irresponsible), but then when you come off of it it causes......insomnia. Go figure, nothing's free. Perhaps different people have different sensitivities, but I would NEVER take Ativan again. As I weened myself off of it, eventually I couldn't split the pills into any smaller portions and had to just "stop" taking it. It took me three attempts. I suffered what I describe as "extreme agitation" and I remember sitting in a dark room, gnawing on my knuckles, and feeling that if I could open my skull and remove my brain I would have. And then, once I finally managed to stop the Ativan, I had weeks of severe insomnia. Then, when I did finally start to sleep again, one day I just sort of realized, hey, I slept last night........it was as if I hadn't noticed, which was strange, considering how much agony the insomnia was.

More recently, during my cancer treatment I was on the Fentanyl patch, and had terrible trouble weening myself off of that. I suspect I was offered the Fentanyl too casually. Looking back, I might have gotten by using just the liquid morphine, and wish I had stuck to that longer. I suffered insomnia I think as a side effect of weening off of the Fentanyl. You trade avoiding physical pain by having to suffer emotional pain (insomnia)? Again, seems that nothing is free.

I'm nearly seven months post treatment, and very gradually my ability to sleep has improved. I remember it being torture to not be able to sleep. Sadly, I never experienced a sudden return to "normal" but instead, very gradually over time, have started to sleep better, although I suspect not very deeply.

I'm sure this (above) is not very encouraging. All I can say is, be very wary of these drugs (benzos and opiods) and know that you may have to suffer very difficult withdrawals. However, that is possibly still better than severe physical pain. And yes, as is often stated here, it does get better (sleeping, that is).

You should never go "cold turkey" off of these things. Your doctors should help you ween down.

I'm struggling to re-approach life now that I'm in remission. I keep telling myself, well, self, you can only move forward from here.

This concerns me with my vicodin. I am not a big pain medicine taker - came home from surgery for neck and tongue on REGULAR Tylenol...not even extra strength! but have been taking 2 of the hydroco/apap every 4 hours at 12 midnight, 4 a.m. and one at 8 a.m., noon, 4 p.m. and depending on how I feel, one or two at 8 p.m. and going to bed if I take 2. I just conk out as soon as my head hits the pillow but I am afraid I will have a hard time sleeping without the meds. Do need them for pain right now tho...doing #18 radiation today. Otherwise I usually get by on Ex. Strength Tylenol for most everything! :o)

Michele in IL

Hey Michelle,

What you write rings a bell for me. I'm in a slightly different phase of treatment from you, in that I just got home from my first surgery a week ago, and I don't think I'll need chemo/radiation right now.

But what you say about coming home from the hospital on "just" Tylenol is exactly what happened to me. (Children's Tylenol, since it was liquid, therefore I could swallow it.) And, similar to you, I'm really strongly affected by medications, and I am very hesitant to get addicted to things. I also often have insomnia, waking up in the middle of the night, being awake from 2-5. So while my situation isn't identical, there are some similarities, and I understand a little of where you're coming from.

I think that if you're mindful, marijuana is probably an okay thing to try. From what I understand, it's not nearly as addictive as lots of other stuff out there, at least on a chemical basis. Though I'm not an expert on that.

I don't know if it will help you, but BC (before cancer), I figured out a solution to my own insomnia: my cortisol levels were checked (at the encouragement of a chiropractor) and they were a little off at night. So I tried eating just a little protein before bed - a handful of nuts, or a few bites of meat leftover from dinner - and lo and behold I started sleeping through the night! The protein supposedly helps balance the cortisol or adrenal function or something. However it operates, it certainly helped me - I have been much more likely to sleep through the night if I eat a little protein before bed. (Unfortunately, at the moment, since a pre-surgery exam suggested evidence of acid reflux, I'm no longer having anything except water 3 hours before bed, which will hopefully my throat a chance possible to heal from the damage caused by the breathing tube during surgery. So at the moment I'm back to insomnia, but at least I had a solution that used to work for me.)

Another option is to come up with an evening routine, something relaxing that includes a cup of tea. And being not on the computer or in front of a screen will help your system calm down at night. I've also discovered that doing puzzles in bed - crossword, sudoku, etc, will eventually put me to sleep. The puzzles are a crutch, a tool of sorts, but I figure they're not hurting me.

Hope some of those suggestions help!

:^) Rahel

Geez,

I cant believe that i thought 4-6hrs of sleep a night was not enough!!! With the lorazapam, i was getting 7-8hrs so it was a shock to my body to go to 4hrs a night but i eventually got used to it. I actually funtioned fine on4-4.5hrs of sleep.


Got off the fetanyl patch on Wed and have been getting 2hrs a night ever since!!! Night sweats, shakiness, anxiety, depression, sleeplessness etc are all withdrawel symptoms i'm experiencing right now. Still taking tamazapan and took two diazapam and they did nothing! Anyone have any ideas on how long i need to bear with this before my body adjust to it?

Minh

Hi Minnie. Since narcotics and anti anxiety meds are addictive and if you would like to try a non-addictive med... ask your physician about Trazodone... it is an anti-depressant but if you take 1/2 tablet and go to bed, it will put you to sleep. I've used Trazodone for years and without it, sleep is evasive and short.

Also the inability to sleep, sweats, anxiety are likely withdrawal symptoms from the Fentynl patch and the benzodiazepines. Narcotic withdrawal is quite uncomfortable and often feel like the flu. The symptoms should decrease in a couple of days!!

Dodie

WOW. I know withdrawals can suck. I fortunately was not able to take the fetanyl as they were too strong for me. I have however been on Oxycodone for about 2 years off and on (mainly on) and am not addicted but have had withdrawals on occasion. I do believe that drugs can be addicting but I also believe that some people have addictive personalities which makes it easier to be addicted to something. I am not a big drug taker so getting addicted to something would be hard for me. All of my drugs and food go through a g tube and what I have done with getting of meds was to decrease the amount slowly through cutting the pills or getting it in liquid form so you can decrease the amount slowly and you body slowly gets used to less and less of the drug. And if you need to take a Tylenol along with the lessor amount or instead of the pain meds so your body is still getting something for pain but not the patch.

I hope you are able to find something to help so you can get back to getting sleep and feeling better.

Hi guys,

Thanx for the advice. Its now 6 days since i've gone off the fentanyl and i have started to feel better!!! Yay!!! Still not getting much sleep but at least i'm not walking around like a zombie and started to "feel" again. Since going off the fentanyl, i've noticed pain from where i had the surgery but nothing i cant handle so all is good. I've also started excercising again. I climbed 750 stairs today!! I used to climb 2225 steps everday five days a week, so not quite there yet but getting there!!!

OCF have been a lifesaver for me. I want to thank everyone who responded to my posts. Without them i'm sure i would have gone crazy with worry and would have suffered severe depression. I'm happy to say that i feel pretty good these days (apart from the withdrawal periods), no depression. Pretty much my happy self before cancer. Yes i still have days where i'm scared sh..less but then its only human to feel like that so i'm cool with it.

Posters like Erics, Charm, Davidcp, Christine, EzJim, Gabe, Anne Marie, and Karen are really insprirational to me and i really appreciate all that you guys do for the people on this website.

Minh