I have a question ...how painful is a lymph node biospy and are you awake for it ? My 8 year old has a HUGE node on her left side ..you can see it from across the room and another marble size one behind ear. She has NO signs of infection anywhere , so we are going to dentist to have an xray to seeif possible tooth infection somehwere. She does have a cavity . The put her on antibiotics ...but said if they dont make it go down they may biospy due to size.
I have never had one so I don't know , I figured someone here would know . Thanks !! ANd keep your fingers crossed that it is a bad tooth !!
Shar
i so hope its from the tooth infection, i to have an 8 year old daughter and the mere though has me shaking.
i will be keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you.
derek
Shar
Don't worry the treatment for adults and children is very different.
She should at the very least be heavily sedated, noway could they expect a frighted child to remain still for the biopsy.
BUT I really hope it goes down as quickly as it arrived, kids can bounce back quickly.
Sunshine.. love and hugs
Helen
Sharlee,
I am not an eight year old nor was mine done by a dentist. It was a hospital operation done by a ENT surgeon who formerly worked at a CCC. I was under anesthesia for it. Took about a 1/2 hour and I was in recovery for about 2 hours. Got bad news results at that time, no waiting. I was released to go home under care of my husband, still woozy from anesthesia. I had no pain that I recollect and don't even think they gave me pain killers. However, my swollen lymph was only one node and not too large. I had a second biopsy by same surgeon on my voice box with same results. I don't think this is a procedure that is done in one's office. I'd ask lots of questions and find out exactly what they plan to do. I wouldn't be comfortable with a dentist doing this.
Take care,
Eileen
I just hope they only take one from her but get a Dr that knows what is going on and I don't think a Dentist would qualify. She needs a specialist. Good Luck and you have my prayers.
No the dentist isnt doing it ..She is going to the dentist to see f there is some underlying infection o abcess casuing this....If not then blood work and Biopsy ... that is what ER dr said. I will also have to consult with her pediatrician and if it is to be done my an ENT ..I will have MY surgeon do it . I just wasn't sure it it was a procedure that you were awake for or how it worked ..Thanks for all your advice and please cross your fingers
Sharlee - do you have a cat? There is a common disease that children get commonly known as "cat Scratch fever" - major symptom is enlarged lymph nodes. (I used to be a pediatric nurse and we saw many cases) Here's a link to some information from the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/diseases/catscratch.htm So hoping it's as simple as something like this....
Shar,
Cat scratch fever does infect the LN's but it is very painful at the site as compared to SCC. I was DX'ed with CSF by the 3rd cancer doc I went to and put on heavy meds. At first my nodes shrank in half and my cancer doc shook my hand and said "CONGRATULATIONS, YOU DON"T HAVE CANCER". Three weeks later and no further change to their size and I had a FNA by my 4th cancer doc and the rest is history.
Hoping for the best.
Sharlee,
I hope all is well with you and your daughter. Did your daughters dentist take an x-ray?.. and if so did it show signs of infection?
It is not uncommon for children of your daughters age to develop large nodes in response to a dental abcess of a primary tooth. In children, I have found in my experience, that nodes can become alarmingly large. I become concerned when theses nodes are hard and fixated (immobile). Enlarged, mobile nodes by them self are an indicator that your daughter's immune system is fighting something and working properly. If they are hard and non mobile that presents the possibility that something is not normal.
I know as a parent it is hard to relax when something is affecting your child, but don't get too wound up over node size.
If it is determined that your daughter should have a lymph node biopsy you can rest assured that the surgeon, Dentists don't perform these, that your daughter would be sedated or anesthetized so that it was not a painful procedure. Oral surgeons are qualified and in some areas do perform this procedure. I would assure anyone who is in doubt of an Oral Surgeon doing this that the ones who do are fully capable of performing the procedure. I am only aware of one who does in my region and he usually works in the OR with an ENT.
Shar, let me know how everything goes. Chances are that the cavity has involved the nerve of the tooth and that is the reason for the nodes. You can never be too cautious though, go with your gut.
I'm praying for you and your daughter.
Mike
Shar......I am betting that before you get all of this done, those nodes will have shrunk back down. I had a couple of nodes do that to me recently, and I was a basket case. After they went back down, I realized that they couldn't be cancer.....but that they were just doing their job. I had some sort of infection.........I sure do hope that this is the case for your daughter.
When I was a child, radiation treatments were common for enlarged nodes. I had that treatment, and later, I had part of my thyroid removed because of it.....though it turned out to be benign. Kids have lots of enlarged nodes,,,but at least they don't irradiate them any more!
Well this is what Happened today
We went to Dentist .. He did x-ray . says that there isn't an abcess and that the tooth is Bad. she has a few and has baby teeth that need to come out due to space I guess. But he said the one cavity is Bad , yet Xray dosent show abcess.
So we have to go to Oral surgeon ..STAT ..Like an emergency he is very concerned with the Node. ( both of them ,,they arent getting better with 3 days of antibiotics they are gettin worse..bigger )
The one Oral surgeon dosent take my Ins so he wants me to pay up front ...I don't have that Kind o f money right now. He wasn't even in office ..he was gonna come back to see her. SO I asked them to call the one that I live next to who pulled my wisdom teeth . He takes my Ins and he saw her.
He said He thinks there could be an infection ..tooth is bad and has to come out . he is concerned she has been on antibiotic and no better. He wants her to go to Her ped tomorrow or wens . then back to him on thurs. Then I guess we schedule a surgical removal of some teeth ..Yet he wants to do it at the hospital. then if nothing we Proceed in other areas he said.
He said ...It could be an abcess that Lump. Well the Dr said it was a Node and I was under the impression that you could see an abcess on an xray.
She is saying she dosent want to eat it hurts...not her teeth her neck and now her throat ..she dosent want to swallow.....yet No signs of infection or redness of the throat they said....
So I am still waiting it out I guess , but they seem to be concerned and on top of it so that is a plus ! OS also said the Node behind ear shouldn't or usually dosent react to teeth so I don't know.
Shar
Shar,
Sorry I can't help you with what's going on with your daughter's lymph nodes, but I must comment on what was said about her teeth. These are the facts:
A tooth CAN be abscessed without it showing on an x-ray. In the early stages of formation, an abscess may not show on an x-ray. It can take up to 6 months from when an abscess starts forming, to be visible on an x-ray. The tooth may or may not be painful with an abscess. A tooth that has an infection has an abscess since an abscess is an infection in the bone from a decaying nerve (pulp) inside the tooth.
Also, I'm not sure what her dentist meant by saying that the tooth is BAD.
I'm sorry to hear that you and your daughter are going through this and I wish that I could be more helpful. Again, I just wanted to try to clarify some of things that you were told to help you have a better understanding about the dental aspect of her problem.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry
We saw Ped today and had blood work & ultrasound. Still not sure . Blood work was ok and shows that it may be viral. Ultra sound shows Multiple infected Nodes.. measuring at
4 1/2 cm . So I dont know . They don't know if we lean towards dental or medical ..I am confused and frustrated . I have an APpt with MY ENT tomorrow ..just because I feel like he may know somthing, plus he may actaully be the next step. The Nurse called me with results tonight at 5:30 so Dr was gone ...They are calling me tomorrow AM to tell me what is next .
They know I have appt with ENT . And will tell me whether or not to keep it.
They also tested her for Cat Scratch Fever , but I guess that takes a week to come back ...
Any Ideas on how to proceed .....ANYONE ???? DO I let them start removing teeth and everything or do I ask for a biopsy .
Shar
just catching up here, seriously hop all goes o.k
derek
Sharlee, it sounds like there are 2 or possibly three different issues going on here.
First are the baby teeth and the ones that have to be removed due to being "bad". Please re-read Jerry's post. There may be a small fistula draining the infection from the tooth which would make it relatively painless by relieving the pressure.
Secondly, the lymph nodes are supposed to swell up when there is an infection. A blood test should reveal an elevated WBC. I would imagine however there they do not have a baseline to compare with, only the standard parameters.
Third, she should be on antibiotices for 2 weeks. If there is no response then she should see and ENT right away.
An MRI would be a better choice as it reveals soft tissue much better than x-rays, should it come to this.
It is also pretty common for children to have problems with their primary teeth and cavities can be transferred to the adult teeth coming up - that was my childhood experience.
Sharlene - I know you are frustrated with your lack of answers for your daughter. One question - in relationship to what Gary said - is she actually on antibiotics? It seems like that would be a prudent measure as the most common cause of her enlarged lymph nodes is some sort of infectious process, be it her teeth, or cat scratch disease....
She has been on amoxicillin 250 mg 3x daily since Sat.
Then they precribed Zithromax yesterday ..
Today we went to my ent and he wants teeth to get taken care of 1st . Another node is now visible behind ear , she had one back there today another one. SO he switched her to augementin. UGHHH the money the pharmacy is making . We see the Oral surgeon at 7:45 am tomorrow and then he will scheduele her surgery to remove teeth .
My ENT said if nodes don't go down in like 3-5 days after new Med or if they get Bigger to call right away . Also if having the teeth removed dosen't resolve it call him , then next step I guess would be a CT ..
So I will let you all know what I find out tomorrow ..Thanks !!
Shar
Shar , just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and the little one.
Hang in girl.
Marica
Shar , just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and the little one.
Hang in girl.
Marica
Will be hoping and praying for the best, dear friend! Keep us posted, please!
Lois & Buzz
Hi...sorry to hear about your little one...have they done blood tests for mono? If she has a sore throat, is tired and has large nodes that are not responding to antibiotics, that is what it could be. This resolves on its own, and is very common.
Hang in there Shar--at least you have 'some kind' of plan, along with contacts and support.
I really hope those nodes start going down some time soon,
Thinking of you,
Brenda x
Me too! I hope your daughter is dealing with all this as well as can be expected too. It has to be hard on her-especially so close to the holidays.
You're both in my thoughts and I hope by Christmas things are much better for her.
Nelie
Today the Oral surgeon said we are going to remove 7 teeth !!! Hopefully that helps. 5 of them are baby teeth so It is my understanding that wont be to painful ( afterwards ) She has some badly decayed teeth ..well one that is beyond repair and the other could be possibly but he said her mouth is so crowded so it shouldnt be a problem to remove it .
They are going to do it in the hospital, we go back next thurs for another check of the Nodes ..still really swollen . Then we will schedule the surgery .. He wants to do it after the holidays. Thanks to all of you for being my support group on here !!! I love you all so much !! ANd I hope you all have a Very Merry Chritsmas !!
Shar
Shar
I'm sure you are ahead of me on this, but don't forget to keep her pain meds up. Kids of that age don't moan much but can still be in pain
Sunshine.. love and hugs
Helen
Shar, With a great deal of empathy for your child I also want to say: those of us whom have been through oral cancer must remember that oral cancer is very very rare in a person of 8 years age. I have a 12 year old and just last week he had a sore throat-he was very concerned about. I am pretty sure that my neck scar and the effects of treatments have had a serious effect on my children. Not to mention the reality that I look at their red sore throat and for a moment think.....NO! it really is not cancer. I just thought you needed to hear that....what your daughter (and you) is dealing with is very likely NOT cancer.
I very much hope that relief will come soon.
Shar,
Stay the course darlin, I know first hand how wound up we get when our child is the victim. You are a strong mother, intelligent woman, and a partner that anyone would want with them in a hospital. Your daughter is so very lucky to have you.
I know I don't have to tell you, but pay attention to the Docs, ask the difficult questions and look out for you lil' lady. I know you are!! My best wishes are with you.
I'm praying the big Irish prayers for you and your daughter. Keep us posted.
If I can be of any help let me know.
Mike
Zithromax is some potent (and expensive) stuff. It's the same drug they were prescribing for anthrax. You should allow it 2 weeks to work though, of course this is also assuming the the original source of the infection, like an abcessed tooth, is removed. It takes 3-4 days for most oral antibiotics to reach a full therapeutic level in the blood stream.
I have to chime in with Mark - don't extrapolate your cancer with her. It is not hereditary or contagious and many children have similar problems with their baby teeth. In some infections the lymph nodes under the armpits will swell up as well. Take a deep breath.
Thanks to everyone ..I wasnt nervous about the Oral cancer , I was nervous as they were mentioning Lymphoma ....None of it That I want to deal with...So lets hope it is the teeth ..or even the catch scratch fever ..Both with are somewhat easily treated... I am only nervous about her having 7 teeth pulled as she is soo soo tiny and can't afford to lose anymore weight !!
She has lost 5 lbs this week already , she wont drink pediasure ..I have tried . However someone told me to mix Powdered milk with her real milk or even in other things she will eat ..they said it is a calorie booster ..Has anyone heard of that ? SHe is 8 years old and only like 42 lbs ...TINY ...But she is Tall . Thanks again to everyone !!!
Shar
They had me drink what they called 'fortified milk' when I was having radiation to keep my weight up. This was adding a TBSP carnation instant breakfast to reular milk for extra protein and calories. Why don't you make her one of Dani's high calorie shakes if her teeth can stand the cold or let it warm up to room temp.
Take care,
Eileen
Shar,
I would ask her doc what he/she would recommend. I wouldn't mess with any other recommendations if it were my little girl.