I have been reading alot about alcohol and cancer, some studies say not to drink any alcohol at all after a cancer diagnosis and others say moderate intake is fine. I am not a big drinker, a little wine once in awhile but since my surgery I am afraid to have a social drink. My ENT made me laugh when I asked him the question, he said, if I did not have a drink now and then I would get heart disease. Funny! I guess never ask an Irishman if you can have a drink!!
It has been found that a glass or two of wine is indeed good for the heart. He was not kidding!
As far as drinking after getting cancer....That is a good question???
Adele,
My Docs told me none at first, then only on social occasions. He said "it's not your heart that we're worried about". At the 1 3/4 mark, I asked my surgeon who said moderately is ok. I asked for def. of moderate and was told 1-2 glasses of wine/wk was his moderate. I now probably drink 1-3 glasses of wine or beer 2-3 x's per month on the average. It's almost two years post and still haven't had my beloved tequilla (100% agave only). Oh well, maybe at the end of August on my two year...maybe not... Most things are probably ok in moderation. Good luck.
Rob
Hi, Adele, During one appt. with the Oncologist after radiation, John was grumbling about his mouth and throat being to raw to drink a beer- the Doc just said "So pour it down your peg". Amy in the Ozarks
That had to be a joke. Since you would not get any taste of it the only purpose would be to get the alcohol buzz. Is this really what you want to be doing during recovery?
Nope- it was not a joke- Yep, it was "a buzz" for John- more mental than physical, I suspect- just part of his wanting - needing- to get back some of his "old normal" life. He could feel the cold can in his hand, and smell it before it went down the "hatch", say "cheers" to me if we were ending the day together and I was having a glass of wine. Quality of life has different meanings for each of us. Amy in the Ozarks
When at end of Rad I asked the doc about occasional wine, he said that would not be a problem. What I didn't know, and he most probably did, was that after the Rad, I cannot tolerate alcohol, or vinegar - might as well toss a lighted match in my mouth. So for some of us, I imagine that is not an issue. A low fat diet and lots of excerise is just going to have to protect my heart while I enjoy my new career as Designated Driver.
There is always an "up" side!
I was a very occasional beer drinker in the former life, maybe a 6 pack a month with Mexican food. Now, 10 months post Tx I still cannot tolerate the taste of any beer. It tastes as though someone put about a cup of sugar in one bottle or can of it. Also cannot touch a Margarita as all I get is a heavy lime and sugar taste. Oh well, at least my coffee has remained a friend throughout all.
Bill D.
I knew this would start a discussion. I am also of the mind that maybe 1-3 drinks per month would be okay. I think, maybe not sure, but obivously willing to take the chance!! I am also a walking nut and I love yoga and Tai Chi. My heart will certainly benefit from those acitivties more than that of bending my elbow. But, yes it certainly is part of socializing and being part of the group. Especially,on a beautful Canadian summers eve after watching my husband play baseball there is nothing nicer than sitting on the patio and enjoying a lovely cold dark beer with friends. I will let moderation prevail!!
Thanks all!
I used to drink beer before Tx and I had a favorite flavor. My docs said it was OK to drink after Tx like everyone else's docs but beer doesn't taste the same as it used to. Like everything else, the first bite or swallow is normal but after that it doesn't matter what goes in my mouth so I maybe have a beer a week now.
About a month ago I was grilling out, which used to be my all time favorite time to have a beer, so I drank one and then drank a second before I was finished grilling. I ate my dinner and I think I was almost drunk. I swear the next morning I woke up with a hangover. I guess I would be a cheap date if I was back on the market. Tomorrow we are having about 70 people over to our house for a Mothers Day party. I will be grilling, naturally I only use charcoal, But now I'm afraid to have that second beer. I can't remember the last time I felt DRUNK.
Damn this is a cruel cancer!!!
David,
Enjoy the grill and enjoy a beer!!
Too Life!!
Maybe only one though....
My Dr. also stated I could drink in moderation but, to stay away from the "hard stuff." That's fine with me as I got away from that years ago. I have a very occasional beer or glass of wine. David, I also grill quite a bit and always use charcoal. I figure if my father, at age 86, still grills with charcoal, why shouln't I.
I was a fairly active drinker before treatment, still being in my 20s. Since then I admit I haven't been able to give it up. I have a taste for whiskey. Of course now it must be mixed with coke or it burns too much. And beer, I have to really wince to get it down, unless it's my personal favorite beer, Guinness, which is smooth and less carbonated, and goes down a lot easier. Recommended if you want a beer that won't torch your throat. I know it's probably folly to drink that much, but I didn't survive to be boring, and I'm still a younger guy (30 now). It's definitely less than before, but probably more than most of you - unless I'm the only one willing to admit it!
I think that the key here is not so much what you drink but more about moderation. Drinking a six pack with a Mexican meal is NOT moderation - sorry Bill - and "Denial" is not a river in Eygpt. A "normal person" will sometimes drink 1/2 a glass of wine and toss the rest down the sink, an alcy wouldn't think of wasting a drop. I've seen people at weddings going table to table polishing off others drinks while they were on the dancefloor - especially when there was a no host bar but I digress.
This is an issue that has no easy and quick answer and has made many appearences here on the forum. A 12 oz beer and glass of wine both have the equivalent alcohol content of a straight shot - so one has to ask is the type of alcohol the issue or the alcohol content itself? Some advocate not even using mouth washes containing alcohol (or even Nyquil). There has been some data to suggest that anything that causes irritation in the throat may lead to cell mutation and oncogenesis. Even drinking (non-alcoholic)beverages too hot or even too cold has been implicated as a causitive factor.
Like other medication, it is more a matter of "risk and benefit" and whether you can be "rigorously honest" about your true alcohol consumption. IMO an occasional beer or glass of wine is probably not statistically going to increase your odds of a recurrence ("occasionally" doesn't mean "daily").
If I were NOT an alcoholic (12 years in program) would I be sipping on whiskey after all I have through, probably not. Would I have an occasional glass of wine or a beer, probably.
This really a question of what value you place on your life, much like what foods you eat and what toxic exposures you have to deal with. Simply living in certain states increases your cancer risk (Utah has the lowest percentage of cancer per capita).
I drank my first beer since 1997 in Chile last month. They had a German beer microbrewery (Kuntsman) that we kept passing twice every time we went anywhere and after I found out 18 is the legal age there, I took my 18 1/2 year old son and 80 year uncle there and they gave us a sheet of paper with 8 types of beer and a description. Each beer was about a 2 oz shot glass full. One was very sweet as I remember. I hat 6 sips and then I was stunned when they expected me to pick one to drink. I had a glass and ordered an assortment of German sausage and enjoyed the beer. I guess a glass every 10 years isn't excessive, although I drank every last drop!
Gary -- nice post. I'm just over 13 years as a Friend of Bill, and like your discussion of what we would and wouldn't do. It all boils down to having that ability to choose -- I lost it for many years, but have had it back for 13. Watching and working with people who kid themselves as to their "ability" to choose keeps me on course.
I guess, looking at it rationally, given that this cancer thing is looking to kill us, why would anyone even engage in the debate over how much alcohol is enough/too much in terms of recurrence? How many spins of the revolver in a Russian Roulette game does it take to blow your head off? Same effect.
Gary,
I went back and read my post following your response and I see that it doesn't read right. I meant to say that I used to drink maybe a 6 pack over the course of an entire month with Mexican food. I eat Mexican at least 4 times per month but cannot handle beer or any other alcohol since Tx. Mexican food itself doesn't even taste all that great anymore either.
Bill D.
Hi,
The news section of the website has several stories about the relationshiop between alcohol and oral cancer.
See
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=18 and
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=1118 It seems that the amount and duration are important variables when it comes to alcohol consumption.
And this story
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=519 talks about the finding that
"alcohol fuels the production of a growth factor that helps create new blood vessels inside a tumor, a process called angiogenesis. Production of these new blood vessels helps feed tumor cells."
So it appears there is definitely an established relationshiop between alcohol and cancer. What seems to be missing is any study that addresses the risk of recurrence related to consumption of alcohol by survivors or oral cancer and whether or not that risk is greater than the general public. - Sheldon
Gary, do I HAVE to move to Utah?
-- This is such a fascinating topic....I used Listerine for 20 years EVERY SINGLE DAY without missing it even once before I was diagnosed. Many times two or 3x a day....I remember sometimes feeling the burn so bad that my eyes watered> (Seemed to depend on how freshly opened the bottle was, and where I bought it...a grocery store seemed weaker and from Costco type warehouse stores it was more potent. I have researched and found a few dozen articles linking it to possible precancers.
I think the same rule applies to this as EVERYTHING we do in our lives - MODERATION is key. Anything in excess (certainly drinking!!) is bad for us.
During treatment I couldn't even fathom the idea of drinking a glass of wine. EVERYTHING tasted horrible and I couldn't even drink water. *thank God for the PEG!!
I remember my first glass of wine post tx and I thought I'd never drink again.
But, now, I am able to genuinely enjoy 3/4 of a glass (every several days, or maybe once a month) and almost always red. I agree that hard liquor just seems intuitively dangerzone.
JeffL...nice to meet you! I understand your comments about self destruction, but some of us have to come to terms with the results of our diagnosis on our timelines. If someone is motivated to start a macrobiotic vegan diet to support an anti-cancer life post tx, GREAT! But not everyone can or will take these measures....Just like not everyone will stop all drinking.
After all, what's the point of merely surviving? Shouldn't we instead thrive and enjoy life in a balance of health awareness?
I have avoided this discussion like the plague but at this time when the topic is causing me so many problems i need to tell someone.
Robin is now back to health enough to drink and swallow liquids freely,so i suppose it was inevitable that he would move back to his former drinking habits eventually.Throughout his treatment,and even at the worst times he has attempted to drink a beer every day.During the middle weeks of his radiotherapy this was impossible and he went for 4 or 5 weeks without a drink.Once he started to feel a little better he experimented with all sorts of things until he eventually found something he could drink(wine and soda).Since then he progressed onto one bottle of beer in the evening and now he is back to going to the pub every day and drinking three pints of strong lager followed by a brandy chaser before bed.Its just an impossible situation.He sits in the pub barely able to keep his eyes open and i just dont understand why.He has a 100mcg fentanyl patch and is still taking 6 doses of 20mg morphine for breakthrough pain.I live in mortal fear of him killing himself with all this and when i try to talk to him about he gets so angry that i just crawl into my room and stay there. One of my most selfish fears is that if anything happened to him i would get the blame because no one would believe that one human being who has been given a second chance at life would do this to themselves by choice.On top of all that he is still smoking,and the stress of all this has resulted in me starting again after giving up 7 years ago.
No one needs to tell me that my husband is an alcoholic,i think i have known that for years but i never ever thought it was as bad as it so obviously is .I think because he works everyday, only drinks in the evenings,isnt violent,eats well ,and looks after his appearance i have deluded myself into believing he was just a heavy social drinker,but boy have my eyes been opened over the last two weeks.
Of late i havent posted anything about Robs condition because i felt it was inappropriate to discuss all his post Tx problems in a forum where every person is fighting to hold on to their lives with all their strength and doing everything they can to survive.I am ashamed.I just wonder if their is one soul out there who has any idea what he can be thinking of ,because i sure as hell don't.
Sadly Liz in the UK
Liz,
WOW..you are in a tough spot. I can't relate, as I have always been a "social drinker". I'm sure that there is someone out here that might relate and have a better suggestion...however...maybe an intervention by all those that stood by Robin during the fight. There seems to be a bit of self destruction going on here. I can't imagine fighting this fight, dragging all my loved ones along with me thru the mud, and then throwing the experience all away. It is very obvious that you really care for Robin. My friends, family, and doctors would never put up with this behavior. Is your love and caring also allowing you to be enabling. I hate to be so blunt, but I think that my wife would tell me it was either the pub, or our house...my choice. Again, I apologize for being so direct and I am certainly not qualified to give any real direction here, I just know how my caregivers would deal with me. If some swift action isn't taken here you've got to believe that he won't make it. I feel for you.
Rob J.
Liz, First of all you can not blame yourself. You can't change anyones behavior but your own. My husband is an alcoholic, and has been for 30 years.He also worked every day while he was able, was never violent, and took care of everything that needed to be done. Rich quit drinking a year ago, but he found out 3 years ago how much damage he had already done. He had alcoholic hepatitis, pheriphal neuropathy,and ascites.He has lost so much feelings in his legs he is dependant on a wheelchair. Drinking was killing him but he kept on. Anyone who hasn't dealt with an alcohoic can say say what they want, but noone has any control except the drinker. The only option is to leave but that wasn't an option for me. It is a disease just as cancer is. Marriage vows say for better or worse, sickness or health. I couldn't break them. The only difference between your husband and mine is he never drank when taking medication. A year ago he suffered compression fractures of his spine and has been on pain meds since so he hasn't been drinking. We just found out about his oral cancer,(treatment hasn't been decided on or even staged yet) He is still smoking over 2 packs a day, and became angry when told he needs to quit. Sadly I can relate to everything your going through. I don't have any solutions but if you ever need to talk to someone who understands, I'm here.
Julie Kay
Thanks to both of you.
Because of Robs love affair with alcohol i moved back to my home in Yorkshire 6 years ago.Since then we have commuted every two to three weeks for long weekends and holidays i get to be near my Mum,,children and Grandchildren and we keep our marriage alive!! I talk to Robin every night for at least an hour and we look forward to seeing each other as often as possible.When he became ill i packed up and moved back down here to help and support him through what has been a horrendous time,and i wouldnt have it any other way.I suppose a little part of me hoped that this reality check would change everything and he would realise what a fool he has been and what the last 20 years have done to him.Unfortunately this didnt happen and some of the reason for that were all his years of drinking dont seem to have done any damage to his stomach or liver and apart from the cancer he was passed completely healthy in every other respect.So now he thinks he he doesnt have a problem.As for being enabled,i think the main reason i am here is because no one else would have done it.All his family and friends know what he is like and they would never have been able to handle it. I tell it like it is and he doesnt like it much but he has no choice but to listen. Wether he actually takes any of what i say on board i dont know.I just know i cant give up on him,not after we have come so far.The staff at the Cancer Centre know his problems and they have treated him very well but he sits and listens to everything they say,and then just goes and does his own thing.Then he pulls his head in and behaves like a model patient for a while. I suppose i am a bit like a battered wife i just keep coming back for more and i dont really know why.My Mum and kids are begging me to go home but i just cant do it.I know somewhere deep down he needs me and i wont go until i know he is safe and can manage.Not really his problem is it?
Omigod Liz! I wondered why you said you were in Leeds and he in Hampshire. And now I'VE confessed to being a smoker and drinker and YOU offered to help ME!--I feel so guilty now I've read this post!
I HAVE promised myself that if there is any hope for me, I will give up the booze and fags, if there isn't then I'm doing the 'live it don't survive' as long as I can. As for the 'Robin needs me'----I know where you're coming from, but I finally gave up on my hubby and chose my kids, parents and myself--and found peace of mind--Mike destroyed himself anyway, finishing up in a hostel and dying 2 years ago--I understand 2 people were at his funeral! I do actually drink much more moderately than that, but still feel guilty because obviously I'm sure it's contributed to the cancer. If YOU need an ear Liz, PM or email me--I'm not sure how to do it yet, being a bit new to the site--but LOL---me email starts with 'cookies' and Yorkshire aint that big
Thanks for that Brenda
My journey is coming to its end now but one thing i have learnt over the last few months is the value of having somewhere to voice your darkest fears and thoughts.Thanks to people like Amy,Petey,David,Gary,Rob,Jam,Sharlee and many more ,we have weathered the worst of the storm.Now i would like to return the favour and just reiterate what i said before ."Anytime i can help "
Regards Liz
Liz,
That's what keeps this site going. We all come to site as newbies and we learn from those before us. Both the "we are helped" curve and our learning curve are very steep initially but once we acquire the knownledge and wisdom passed on it is our obligation to do the same as unfortunately more newbys find their way here every day. Without the continuing committment of the oldies this site would cease to provide the tremendous service it does.
Oh, and Brian helps keep the site going a little himself.