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#53694 07-19-2005 10:26 AM
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I was told pretty clearly by my medical oncologist that anything that was thoguht to have antioxidant properties was not something I should take during rad and chemo. beofre rad and chemo it was fine. The reason he gave was pretty simple. There's not enough good experiemntal research to show one way or the other what effect most of these vitamins/supplements have during treatment but the theory about how anioxidents work in gerneal is that they slow or stop the growth of cancer cells. However, both radaition and chemo are effective at killing more cancer cells than helathy cells precisely *because* cancer cells tend to grow much faster (and therefor are less resistant to damage from rad or chemo) than healthy cells. So what you may do by taking these things udring treatment is making the treatment less effective at killing the caner cells more so than regular cells.

I've dpone a lot of reading on a lot of supplements but that simplpe explanation made a lot of sense to me. Of course now I'm back to putting whatever supplements and vitamins I can get down my tube into my body because now is time for healing and there's researc that at least strngly suggests they help with that.

Oh, except not Vitamin E which has been shown to cause a higher liklihood of recurrence (and that finding scares me because who knows about some of this other stuff).


SCC(T2N0M0) part.glossectomy & neck dissect 2/9/05 & 2/25/05.33 IMRT(66 Gy),2 Cisplatin ended 06/03/05.Stage I breast cancer treated 2/05-11/05.Surgery to remove esophageal stricture 07/06, still having dilatations to keep esophagus open.Dysphagia. "When you're going through hell, keep going"
#53695 07-19-2005 10:30 AM
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Gale I thought betra-carotene was only found to be related to an increased caner risk for people who smoked? Otherwise it was related to a reduced risk. Am I recalling that research wrong?


SCC(T2N0M0) part.glossectomy & neck dissect 2/9/05 & 2/25/05.33 IMRT(66 Gy),2 Cisplatin ended 06/03/05.Stage I breast cancer treated 2/05-11/05.Surgery to remove esophageal stricture 07/06, still having dilatations to keep esophagus open.Dysphagia. "When you're going through hell, keep going"
#53696 07-19-2005 12:10 PM
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You guys have hijacked my thread with the VERY controversial and deep black hole of VITAMINS and their effect on Cancer and it's treatments!

:-)

Actually, we could have an entire website dedicated just to this very HOT TOPIC.

The best, most balanced source, I've found for the answer to these questions is the following:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm

It seems to have objective, fair and reasoned information for most vitamins, minerals and suppliments.

As far as the tingles, I think I finally found the right combination of things to reduce them by about 90%...Unless of course they are just resolving on their own..? I will take a "pill holiday" soon and see. I do know that just about ANY sugar makes them go crazy!

What I take now is: Loratadine (10 mg) 1x daily
Zinc (30 mg) 2x daily with food, and Artemisinin (100 mg) 2x daily.

Who knows???


Michael | 53 | SCC | Right Tonsil | Dx'd: 06-10-05 | STAGE IV, T3N2bM0 | 3 Nodes R Side | MRND & Tonsillectomy 06/29/05 Dr Fee/Stanford | 8 wks Rad/Chemo startd August 15th @ MSKCC, NY | Tx Ended: 09-27-05 | Cancer free at 16+ Yrs | After-Effects of Tx: Thyroid function is 0, ok salivary function, tinnitus, some scars, neck/face asymmetry, gastric reflux. 2017 dysphagia, L Carotid stent / 2019, R Carotid occluded not eligible for stent.2022 dental issues, possible ORN, memory/recall challenges.
#53697 07-19-2005 01:55 PM
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Yes, Nelie is right, beta-carotene (in the NCI trial) caused more cancer in smokers. But there is enough additional evidence of harm that the Dr. Charles Myers, a top medical oncologist dealing with prostate cancer, strongly advises his patients not to take it. I will go through his Forum newsletters (but not tonight) and get the references -- all his recommendations pro and con are based on clinical studies, not anecdote.

The reason cancer cells are more vulnerable to radiation is that they do not function normally or efficiently to heal DNA damage -- the latter enhanced by free radicals, thus the advice to avoid chemicals which (in turn) might scavenge these free radicals and "protect" the cancer cells. However free radicals can also cause normal cells to become abnormal, by damaging their DNA.

In other words, not a real simple picture!

There are studies which have shown significantly decreased mucositis in patients treated with topical Vitamin E (but not ingested) and also, vitamin E is part of a trial which has found a much improved survival and reduced recurrence in HNC patients treated post-radiation with interferon, retinoin (a form of vitamin A ) and plain old alpha-tocopherol (Seixas-Silva et al, 2005, Arch. Otolar. Head Neck Surgery 131 (4). But this is post-treatment.

Gail Mackiernan


CG to husband Barry, dx. 7/21/05, age 66, SCC rgt. tonsil, BOT, 2 nodes (stg. IV), HPV+, tonsillectomy, 7x carboplatin, 35x tomoTherapy IMRT w/ Ethyol @ Johns Hopkins, thru treatment 9/28/05, HPV vaccine trial 12/06-present. Looking good!
#53698 07-19-2005 02:14 PM
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May I suggest that you continue this discussion in the "Adjunctive Therapy Forum" The subject is a good one but it belongs there.


Mark, 21 Year survivor, SCC right tonsil, 3 nodes positive, one with extra-capsular spread. I never asked what stage (would have scared me anyway) Right side tonsillectomy, radical neck dissection right side, maximum radiation to both sides, no chemo, no PEG, age 40 when diagnosed.
#53699 07-19-2005 04:41 PM
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[with apologies to Michael's thread]I guess I'll pitch John's Centrum Silver because I understood maybe 1\100 of what was posted above. Amy


CGtoJohn:SCC Flr of Mouth.Dx 3\05. Surg.4\05.T3NOMO.IMRTx30. Recur Dx 1\06.Surg 2\06. Chemo: 4 Cycles of Carbo\Taxol:on Erbitux for 7 mo. Lost our battle 2-23-07- But not the will to fight this disease

:
#53700 07-19-2005 04:57 PM
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Good point Mark and sorry to be part of the hijacking!

Gale, you may want to read some of the recent topics in the adjunctive therapy forum discussing Vit. E. A very recent study that is summarized there as well as on the part of this OCF website that summarizes research showed taking E actually increased the likelihood of recurrence with head and neck cancers. I remember this distinctly because I was taking Vit E when I read that and had just ordered two more bottles!

Its also a good example of how complex all this stuff is in terms of what helps and what does not.


SCC(T2N0M0) part.glossectomy & neck dissect 2/9/05 & 2/25/05.33 IMRT(66 Gy),2 Cisplatin ended 06/03/05.Stage I breast cancer treated 2/05-11/05.Surgery to remove esophageal stricture 07/06, still having dilatations to keep esophagus open.Dysphagia. "When you're going through hell, keep going"
#53701 07-19-2005 05:03 PM
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Here's the study I think you (Gail) might have been talking about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...amp;list_uids=15054734&dopt=Citation

The conclusion was that Vitamin E showed a reduction in mucositis in patients with oral cancer in some cases.


Michael | 53 | SCC | Right Tonsil | Dx'd: 06-10-05 | STAGE IV, T3N2bM0 | 3 Nodes R Side | MRND & Tonsillectomy 06/29/05 Dr Fee/Stanford | 8 wks Rad/Chemo startd August 15th @ MSKCC, NY | Tx Ended: 09-27-05 | Cancer free at 16+ Yrs | After-Effects of Tx: Thyroid function is 0, ok salivary function, tinnitus, some scars, neck/face asymmetry, gastric reflux. 2017 dysphagia, L Carotid stent / 2019, R Carotid occluded not eligible for stent.2022 dental issues, possible ORN, memory/recall challenges.
#53702 07-20-2005 04:36 AM
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Hi Nelie --

I have read the paper that reports the negative impacts of alpha-tocopherol and it is certainly a cause for concern -- although other papers contradict it. (So what else is new? -- I'm a scientist, it happens all the time...)

BUT -- a conservative approach is best when dealing with such a potentially serious issue and you were right to have stopped your Vitamin E intake during treatment.

Interestingly enough, the prostate cancer experts say that it is the gamma isomer, not the alpha, that confers anti-prostate cancer protection. That is, taking alpha-E isn't doing much good in any case (for PC, at least).

The use of alpha-E as a topical application of the mouth during radiotherapy (not swallowed, just as a coating) was shown in one study to significantly reduce severity and duration of mucositis compared to a placebo (Head and Neck ,2004;26:313


CG to husband Barry, dx. 7/21/05, age 66, SCC rgt. tonsil, BOT, 2 nodes (stg. IV), HPV+, tonsillectomy, 7x carboplatin, 35x tomoTherapy IMRT w/ Ethyol @ Johns Hopkins, thru treatment 9/28/05, HPV vaccine trial 12/06-present. Looking good!
#53703 07-20-2005 01:18 PM
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[quote] Vitamin E May Increase the Risk of New Cancer


Date
April 12, 2005


Details

According to a new study reported in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, supplementation with Vitamin E increases the risk of developing a new cancer. The study involved 540 patients with head and neck cancers who were given either 400 IU/day of Vitamin E or placebo starting on the first day of radiation therapy for three years. Researchers found that patients who received vitamin E had a higher rate of second primary cancer compared to those on placebo.

[/quote]Where can I get a bottle of this new drug called Placebo..???

:p


Michael | 53 | SCC | Right Tonsil | Dx'd: 06-10-05 | STAGE IV, T3N2bM0 | 3 Nodes R Side | MRND & Tonsillectomy 06/29/05 Dr Fee/Stanford | 8 wks Rad/Chemo startd August 15th @ MSKCC, NY | Tx Ended: 09-27-05 | Cancer free at 16+ Yrs | After-Effects of Tx: Thyroid function is 0, ok salivary function, tinnitus, some scars, neck/face asymmetry, gastric reflux. 2017 dysphagia, L Carotid stent / 2019, R Carotid occluded not eligible for stent.2022 dental issues, possible ORN, memory/recall challenges.
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