#97495 06-16-2009 10:49 PM | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | OP Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 | I'm finally starting to taper off of fentanyl and ween off of oxycodone, I'm severly addicted to the opiates. Every 60 hours or so I start getting "antsy" with severe fatigue and weakness in my leggs, this lets me know it's time to change patches. If I'm not in a position to change patches or I've just changed patches and waiting for the fentanyl to kick, I take 15mg of oxy and that "recharges" me.
I've found that when I am out and about and I get nailed with severe fatigue I can pop an oxy and go the rest of the day feeling "normal". I hate this though as I hate being addicted to this crap and the feeling when my patch goes dry.
Anyone else out there experience this or have any insights on how they came off this stuff?
Thanks in advance
Eric
Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
| | | | Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 104 Senior Member (100+ posts) | Senior Member (100+ posts) Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 104 | Just for clarification: addiction is not what you've got. You've got the normal physiological response to being on these opioids for any length of time, consistently. One's body becomes used to them, adjusts to (most) initial side effects, and one builds a tolerance. That is just the way the body works. That's physiological dependence and any sudden stopping of those meds will result in withdrawal symptoms. Actually, it's not just opioids; there are many meds one should wean off rather than quit cold turkey. Addiction is a whole other animal which includes misuse of medication, using it for purposes other than for which it was prescribed, hoarding it then taking a whole bunch to try for some sort of rush, the need to keep obtaining more and more of this substance to the eventual exclusion of all else. Addiction and dependence are entirely different but people use the terms interchangeably. Remember, the first--addiction--is characterized by a pattern of behaviours that may become criminal--buying/selling/trading on the street for another substance w/more or less bang, taking the substances for purposes not even closely related to pain, etc. People need to quit beating themselves up about 'being hooked' b/c yes, the body slowly becomes dependent on the meds, and to minimize withdrawal when those meds are no longer needed, one weans gradually. It only makes sense!
GM, for John who has SCC Rt tonsil with 3+ nodes, Stage T1 N2b MX; surgery 04/09; Rad X 33 completed 7/14/09...f/u imaging and scopes looking good as of Feb 2011
| | | | Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 104 Senior Member (100+ posts) | Senior Member (100+ posts) Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 104 | How are you being weaned, Eric? Gradually, I hope?
GM, for John who has SCC Rt tonsil with 3+ nodes, Stage T1 N2b MX; surgery 04/09; Rad X 33 completed 7/14/09...f/u imaging and scopes looking good as of Feb 2011
| | | | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | OP Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 | oh yes gradually. I was as high as 175mcg/hr and now have it down to 75mcg/hr. I just put on my 1st 75mcg patch today and do feel the difference...I've been wanting oxy all evening but denying the urge to take any. Thanks for the clarification, it does help put things in perspective there. I'm feeling sick though, a bit of nausea and the wierd feelings in my legs. The bottle is really calling out to me.
I'm hoping the trazadone and lunesta kick in soon
Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
| | | | Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 | Your tapering program needs to be medically supervised or you may suffer convulsions and/or death. It took over a month for me to wean off of Fentanyl and my dose rate wasn't as high as yours. My entire phase out was scripted by my oncologist and I still had withdrawals, although nothing unmanageable. (just for the record, some cancer patients I have known personally (pancreatic cancer mainly) have had a 500mcg dose rate - and that's the limit)
Gary Allsebrook *********************************** Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2 Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy) ________________________________________________________ "You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
| | | | Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | OP Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,844 | Gary, like you, I used my MO for my primary during all of my tx and post surgery. I've just now switched to a PCP that's a GP and he's supervising my tapering.
My grandmother died three years ago from pancreatic cancer and was on a high dose of fentanyl, not sure of the dosage but my grandfather said I was on a lower dose when I was at 175...I figured with her pain she was probably over twice what I was on.
I'm still having issues, some of them stemming from my allergic reaction to an antibiotic (allergice to a lot of them) but I also know some of it is the opiates too, I've been in bed the last two days
Thanks for the input.
Eric
Young Frack, SCC T4N2M0, Cisplatin,35+ rads,ND, RT Mandiblectomy w fibular free flap, facial paralysis, "He who has a "why" to live can bear with almost any "how"." -Nietzche "WARNING" PG-13 due to Sarcasm & WAY too much attitude, interact at your own risk.
| | | | Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 | Just for the record, Fentanyl is 100 times more potent then heroin.
If you damage or cut a patch and release the contents on your skin, you can OD on the spot. It is a great drug and many of us wouldn't have gotten through treatment without it but, like electricity, it commands respect.
Gary Allsebrook *********************************** Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2 Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy) ________________________________________________________ "You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
| | | | Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,940 "OCF across the pond" Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | "OCF across the pond" Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,940 | On the whole Rob dealt brilliantly with medication,but when his patch was running dry he started with sweats and shaking until the last few weeks when his pain was not being controlled by the fentanyl,and he started to use too much liquid morphine.He then suffered a serious episode of Morphine psychosis.That was the scariest thing i have seen since i did my secondment in a secure hospital 30 years ago.About three weeks post tx he tried to reduce his pain medication himself,and he was in a right state with shaking, sweating,tachycardia,hallucinations .When he was on the drugs i dont think either of us was fully aware that his body had become dependant and he never did get off the patches until he was in hospice and had nowhere left on his body they could be stuck!!by then he was on 300mcgs, but they stopped him dead and just put a syringe driver in place which was loaded with such a huge dose of opiates that he never had a problem with the withdrawal of the fentanyl.
Liz in the UK
Husband Robin aged 44 years Dx 8th Dec 2006 poorly differentiated SCC tongue with met to neck T1N2cM0 Surgery and Radiation.Finished TX April 2007 Recurrence June/07 died July 29th/07.
Never take your eye off the ball, it may just smack you in the mouth.
| | | | Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 716 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 716 | For me, I had a bad reaction to the patch (I think I made a mistake and took a hot shower and released too much of the drug into my system), the percocet made me itch like crazy, and the hydrocodone made me constipated...Although, when I was in the hospital for severe dehydration for 9 days morphine was kind of nice.
I'm not crazy about taking and to be honest not organized or dedicated enough to continually pop a pill...I also believe I do not have whatever it takes to get addicted to any substance. I suppose I was lucky because I took less pills because I don't like them...In essence, I unknowingly weaned myself off the pain meds without realizing it.
Good luck...I'm with others on this...discuss this problem with your doctor and do it by the book. You don't want this to get out of hand.
Oh...sleeping pills made me act poorly...
Last edited by Ray1971; 06-25-2009 03:32 AM.
7-16-08 age 37@Dx, T3N0M0 SCC 4.778cm tumor, left side of oral tongue, non smoker, casual drinker, I am the 4th in my family to have H&N cancer 8-13-08 left neck dissection and 40% of tongue removed, submandibular salivary gland & 14 nodes clean, no chemo, IMRTx35 11-4-08 Recovering & feeling better | | | | Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,552 | Its a balancing act on the high wire. Healing is hindered by pain so it must be managed. There comes a time when the narcotics will get in the way of healing. A good MO will know when it's time for you to stop. At a certain point, if you are still in chronic pain then the doctors need to look for another reason for your pain.
Ray, ALL narcotics cause constipation, even medium strength ones like Vicodin. Severe hydration problems will also exacerbate constipation problems, so it's vital to stay hydrated. Many here have confided that the worst issue they faced during treatment was constipation.
Gary Allsebrook *********************************** Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2 Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy) ________________________________________________________ "You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
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