Hi all. I don't know how to help my husband. He doesn't read this board and doesn't realize the long road he has ahead. He is soooooo depressed (I certainly don't blame him one bit). If he knew some of the things you were writing - that things can take YEARS to get better - I think he might pitch himself off the nearest bridge. I'm exaggerating, of course, but still, I'm worried and I'm not sure what to do.

I don't even know what my point is. All of you are so strong and amazing. I know Tim is too; he just doesn't realize it yet. I guess I'm looking for a little hope to share with him, some wisdom to impart that will help him see things in a different light.... I don't know... Anybody?

Have you spoken to his doctor? I don't know how anyone going through this wouldn't be depressed. The worst should be over when the radiation ends. To my husband that was the worst part of the treatment. There will be many issues to address that's for sure but he should start to feel better soon. Just keep telling him how strong he is and that you're proud of him.

Sue

Hi Wendy,

Until cancer I never saw my dad down a day in my life. It became necessary to talk to the doctors about anti-depressants to help with the depression. Talk to your husbands doctors and explain to them what is going on. There are medications that can help with the depression. I'm sure they can find something that works for him. Your husband has been through a lot and still has a ways to go.

Joy

Wendy,

If he/you want to call me 727.322.5669 during the day I will certainly take the call and do what I can to help.

Wendy,

My first thought is will he take it if his Doc gives him an antidepressant? I know I needed one and wouldn't accept it at first. My Doc asked "Why are you refusing my recommended meds and treatment?". I hadn't really thought of it that way. I was in the hospital and just WANTED TO GO HOME! I did start taking them then and it helped.

I know my case is not the "norm", as I was desperately ill for months after treatment and almost didn't make it, but it seems that depression at this point is not unusual. I should think that it could only help him to know that he's not expected to all of a sudden be all better now that treatment is done. The treatment is very hard on our systems and takes a while to heal and recover from. It will happen, though, just more slowly than any of us want. I don't know him so this is only a suggestion, but many men feel that they always need to be strong, tough, etc. Could he be feeling like he's a failure in that because treatment's done and he's not 100% fine now? Maybe some of our guys will weigh in here and offer their suggestions.

As far as the permanent and long-term effects - well, none of us really knows which or how bad or if. I'm still hoping for saliva to return at least in part. And I'm working on getting the surgery I need in order to get teeth. My real swallowing problems didn't start to get bad until a year after Tx, and the greatest part of that problem has been solved by throat dilation. I know that a huge step for me was to accept and embrace my new normal. I needed to go through a mourning process for the loss of the way things used to be but would never (or maybe never) be again. This happened for me over a year after treatment ended.

I don't know if anything I've written is a help, but I know this is so very hard on you, too. It's heartbreaking to see a loved one in so much pain and feel so helpless. It will get better, though, for both of you. That's a promise.

Lani

Rule of Thumb is one month recovery for each week of radiation -- He's now past the worst of it but the light at the end of the tunnel is not yet visible -- I vote for anti-depressant meds, being a long-time user myownself!

Wendy

Im sorry to hear your husband is struggling so much with depression. It is very very common. Hopefully he does realize this and will agree to take meds. Most OC patients have taken soemthing to ease their anxiety at one point or another. It doesnt mean they will need this for a long period of time, just sometimes people need a little help with how devastatign cancer is. I took something only a couple times, maybe about 5 or 6 times I needed it. I think it was called Laxapro, but not completely sure. Hoping things get better soon.

A shrink friend of mine tells me that currently Cymbalta and Lexapro are the two most successful ADs in her practice -- However, one may have to take them for longer periods (Some ADs take a month-six weeks to build up a sufficient level in the body) before they are effective -- Docs usually prescribe anti-anxiety meds to use as-needed during the buildup period.

I'm surprised that everyone thinks meds are the way to go. We finally are at the point where we don't have to use a spreadsheet to keep track of all his medications! I gently suggested meds, he said no. (He's been on them before, as he has a predisposition to depression.) I asked him to please think about it if his level of depression doesn't lessen as the days go on. I think this got him thinking a little and he's actually seemed a little bit better. Sometimes I think I'm the one who needs the medication. ;-)

Sometimes I think I need them too! Hopefully your husband will start feeling better mentally as he feels better physically. You have both been through hell and need some time to get past it. Unfortunately I have been self medicating with food and need to find another outlet.

Sue

If you review some of the other posts in this forum, and some of the blogs, you will find that depression after completion of treatment is very common. I have battled it off and on for the past 15 moths. It was worse the first few months, then improved. I can fall back into a funk more easily now than before treatment, and find that my temper is a bit shorter now than before, especially if I am a little short on sleep, which has been happening a lot recently with job craziness.

There is a considerable body of literature out there that talks about cancer patients suffering from a form of PTSD, and I do not doubt that a bit. No shame, and lots of benefit, to getting it assessed and treated if it continues to be an issue. I find that eating better, getting exercise, and getting rest really helps. Now if I could only do all those things regularly . . .

Wendy,

I understand about the meds. I was and am SO TIRED of taking pills. I can't remember the last time a Doc actually took me off of one, because I just stop taking them before a Doc has the chance to weigh in on it. What makes it worse for me is my dry mouth and swallowing problems, which makes it very hard to take pills. I can take the tiny Synthroid pill OK with applesauce, but all others have to be cut up into tiny pieces (and still taken with applesauce or ice cream). I do still take the Synthroid because I definitely noticed the difference in my lack of energy when I ran out of them for a few days.

I also understand very well a reluctance to take antidepressants, because I also refused them at first. I felt that my sadness/depression was justified and I didn't need or want a chemical attitude adjustment - I needed Doc to hurry up and make me better and let me go home! He explained very eloquently - wish I could remember the words for you - why I needed to take them. I do remember that part of what convinced me was that Doc acknowledged and validated my very real reason to be sad/depressed/upset and that anyone in my circumstances would need help to cope with it all. Also that my low mental state was adversely affecting my physical well-being and that raising my spirits would help me to get better and go home. It all made sense to me and I started to take the med then - and it DID help.

So again I suggest the antidepressants for him. It may be that his Doc needs to talk to him about them. As his wife and loved one, it's possible that you are too close - an extension of himself. Raising his spirits will make him feel better both mentally and physically, and certainly therefore make you feel better, too.

I hope this helps and I hope he can be convinced. It's only temporary and it should make a world of difference for both of you.

Lani

Wendy,
The last week of radiation and the following two weeks were very depressing for me. Treatment was finished and I was feeling as though I would never get better. I started climbing out of it about 2.5 weeks post radiation and it improved from then on.

It is a difficult time. You think you should be getting better and you're not. You are also no longer tethered daily to you doctors and the built-in patient support group at the treatment center. He should start to improve soon. Was he doing well mentally during treatment?
Regards,
Rob J

Lani, my RO nurses told me to use Cool Whip -- It lubricates the throat.

Wendy:

Hopefully you and your husband are now doing a little better than last week. I know he just finished tx so its not an easy time right now. It should start to get better very soon. Please post an update when you can. Thinking of you both.

Hi Wendy, one of the "things" I used with my husband that helped his mental attitude was to really "listen to" one something that was bothering him during a particular part of his tx. and then research it on this forum - I would ask questions and then print responses how other people were dealing with the same thing- and then I would leave the printed pages lying out where I knew he would see them, like I had been reading them [ he would not get on the forum either] Sure enough he started reading what I had left laying around and before long he was asking me to ask questions about things he was dealing with. There were many posts and much information that helped both of us durig our journey with this disease and it helped John know that he was not alone. As a caregiver, you will need to use every resource available to you to get the both of you through this. And OCF is gonna help you all the way. Amy in the Ozarks

Amy that is amazing how you got your husband to accept help ..It is eerie how we have to know our partners so well that we can "trick" them into something...

My husband too is depressed but not due to my cancer or cancer in general but health issues of his own. This depression is reflecting on my recovery...I am trying hard not to fall into depression...I can only immagine how difficult it is for a care giver to watch and be effected by depression...

Wendy hang in there and the only advice I have is remember that it is the illness talking most times and not the person... and it is so difficult not to take things personally...Just keep the love going and he will come around...

Hugs
Dianne

Tim is doing quite a bit better these past few days. His neck burns are finally healing, and that's what's been causing him the most grief. He still doesn't have any appetite at all though. Like Zero. And that depresses him somewhat. We both know that we have to be patient for a while longer. He just wants to start feeling "normal" again. But the severe depression has, thankfully, passed!

Like Tim, I really know what it is like to have zero appetite. It has been an unbelievable experience and, post TX, for me lasted nearly two months.

It has just now been two months since my last TX treatment so I still have a poor appetite, but the last couple of weeks my taste has started returning and now my appetite seems to also be slowing improving.

A friend I met at the CCC who is a five weeks ahead of me said it was between the second and third month that his taste and appetite finally started normalizing.

Wendy:

Glad to hear yor husband is doing better. The past couple weeks were there worst he should go thru. Dont be surprised if he still doesnt have a couple bad days here and there, but now it should be mostly easier days. Hang in there, it will get better and better.

Oh, i am so glad i found other partners like me. My boyfriend is depressed as well, he slept throught the holidays, has no will to do anything and everything seems to be my fault. The thing is we have just moved house as well and it is like a building site. He is a builder by trade so redecorating would not normally be a problem, but he has no interest at all. I try and do what I can for all decoration works like filling holes, painting, sanding stripping wall paper, but to him I have done them wrong (I am not a builder, i am an accountant, how am I supposed to know!). I try cooking something nice but the food has too much salt... I try cuddles, cajoling, gentle persuation to go outside for some air... Nothing works. I spent the 10 days Xmas break trying to help (leavving enugh time to sleep, nap and rest), to no avail. He was just more and more grumpy and ignored me. I am now back at work, and I have never been so happy to be back at work after a holiday. I feel really guilty for feeling that way, but I sometimes feel like I need some meds, or a shrink. It's good to off load though.
I don't really know how to help either. Strangely enough he seems to have perked up since i returned to work. Maybe I was nagging, maybe he misses me during the day and is happy to see me again? I don't know. But i do hope he gets better soon.

hi,

Sorry about my rant above.
Martin is now very depressed. he seems to be sleeping constantly and has no will to get up. I try and try, but nothing seems to motivate him. i took last week off thinking he could supervise my decorating attempts and mostly spend some time together. But in 9 days he was up only 2 days. Then when he realises the day is finished he gets annoyed and says he wasted a day. The dental hygienist suggested that he should talk to someone, but he refuses and says he doesn'y believe in that mamby pamby stuff. I wake him up and he says go away I am getting up in a minute and gets grumpy. So I leave alone then try again an hour later and same again...
On saturday it was bright outside, so I tried to make him come out to sit in the garden as we have our first crocuses out, so the garden is starting to look pretty, and I thought planting new bulbs and get some air might sound attractive, but he didn't get up.
I have absolutely no idea what to do. I want to help, but I don't know how and he won't let anyone in.
C

Well short of slipping some happy pills into his drinks then he needs to talk to someone who is professionally trained to deal with his depression. Many of us on this site dealt with depression after our Tx ended and some were able to do it alone and some benefited from some feel good pills to improve their mood and get them over the "hump" so to speak. You may try to leave him a strongly but nicely worded note expressing your frustration and concern. I wish you luck.

Hi Cecilia,

I had a lot anxiety issues and a bit of depression. I do see a therapist and she has been SO helpful. I cannot express how much better I feel now. My first appointment I cried almost the entire time!! I never felt so good.

I wish you much luck
Suzanne

Hi, Like the others, I went thru a depression after the treatment was over. It's was strange because when I was in tx, I had ALL of these wonderfully nice folks taking care of me, being all my new friends then the tx ended and I was alone. Sad.... where did everyone go? For months, we are pampered and cared for and then we are dumped. It wasn't easy for me and I wasn't alone because I spoke to others that went thru cancer tx and most of them experienced the same thing. One thing that helped me get over some of it was watching every funny movie or tv show I could handle. The more I laughed, the better I felt every day. I'm 3 1/2 yrs out of tx and I still have some depression and some anxiety. For that I have a handy little remedy called Xanex. I've been pretty stressed this past week as I'm facing a follow-up appointment tomorrow and of course, I'm sure the cancer is back. Not really but I always feel that way until the Drs tell I'm still cancer free. It's been a sort of Xanex day today.:) Good luck with your BF, go rent him Animal House, that movie still cracks me up! Oh... and Rat Race! Carol

Hi Cecilia,

I remember the days you are going through like they were yesterday. I couldn't get Dan to even walk around the block because he was afraid of seeing someone he knew and he had lost his voice and so much weight that he just was self-conscious. On the days when he did have energy to get out of bed, he would just pace the bedroom hallway.

Eventually, (maybe 4+ weeks post treatment) I got him to get into the car and I would drive to a park where we were sure not to run into anyone we knew and he started to slowly walk (just a tiny bit at first and then a little bit farther every day).

However, what helped the most was when I took him in to see his family physician for a follow up after a night in the ER for a staph infection.

The doc (who has known him for years) asked him how he was and of course my husband said he was fine. I went on a rant about how he was anything BUT fine. And, I described all the goings on that you mentioned in your posts above and then some.

The doc had a heart to heart with Dan and told him he was in a crappy situation...recovering from treatment, not being able to eat, not being able to work, not having any energy...and then he explained that he (like most people who have had the crap kicked out of them from treatments) was dealing with situational depression. And, after much cajoling and a little stern talking, he finally convinced my husband to go on anti-depressants for a couple of months until the situation got better.

Once my husband could eat regular foods again, his mood and outlook improved and he went off the antidepressants about 3-4 months after he started. He doesn't think they made a huge difference. But, as the caregiver, I want you to know they made a GIGANTIC difference. I was to the point that I wanted the doc to prescribe him something to deal with his depression or prescribe me something so I could deal with him.

The nice folks at our CCC tried to get Dan to go on anti depressants, but they were not successful. I think it was the long-standing relationship with our family doctor and the opportunity to talk to him outside of the cancer center that really made a difference.

I wish you luck! This part is hard on patient and caregiver alike.

[quote]"I was to the point that I wanted the doc to prescribe him something to deal with his depression or prescribe me something so I could deal with him."[/quote]

Had to chuckle at this - so true!.....I have been a caregiver before - to my mother recovering from three surgeries over a couple years for intestinal blockages, and for a SO with heart disease. As soon as my husband got the diagnosis I went straight to my doctor and asked him to prescribe something for me. I tend to carry my stress in my shoulders and hunch them up thus causing a great deal of pain in my neck (literally) from a bulging disk. I think my exact words were "give me something to get my shoulders out of my ears!" I knew I was not going to have the time or inclination to deal with my own aches and pains through Mike's treatment. I've been basically pain free and much less stressed - not a bad thing. Mike is on Ativan to deal with the mask right now and as of today is also on an antidepressant. Whatever it takes to get through this. Cecilia, I hope you or someone else close to him is successful in getting Martin to try an antidepressant but don't forget about taking care of yourself. I wish I had been smart enough to get some help for myself with my earlier CG experiences.

Hi,
Thanks for the advice. Our old doctor is a bit distant, but there is a new younger one who listens and cares. He is very much in demand but if I can get Martin to see him he might be able to help. The thing is Martin says our kitchen is like a pharmacy and his belly rattles with pills. I am not sure how he would respond to more pills. I will try though. Funny enough today was good day for Martin. Well until he got grumpy on the phone. I finally made to my much needed lunchtime Pilates class, I was tense and crooked and had lower back pain so it helped. Mid class my cell phone rang and I ignored it, I was lying flat on my back with my legs in the air and a weighted ball between my knees. After the third consecutive ring, I got worried and thought he had injured himself, so I answered to "Ah finally, you decided to answer your phone, you never answer your ** phone". When I asked if he was ok he said yes he was bored, so I told him I was in the middle of Pilates, and I called after the class.
I helped him drill some holes in the ceiling and hold some boards up.
He seems better but not talkative. I will see how he is tomorrow, and suggest seeing the GP.
Thanks

I really understand how he feels about the pills....our house looks like a pharmacy, my purse rattles with pills. We have 2 grandchildren living with us who are on medication for ADHD and features of bipolar, I'm on 4 meds and then there are the piles and piles of Mike's drugs. I keep telling myself and Mike that this is only temporary....some of these pills will gradually go away....probably to be replaced by others but hopefully some will just go. I've also told H that just because he's sick doesn't give him the right to be an a$$. Sometimes a little tough love helps....I don't think he even understood that he was being a jerk. Good luck

Did I miss it? Has someone posted a standard for how many pills are quite enough? What has the raw number of meds being taken at any time have to do with their effectiveness?

Sounds, once again, like misplaced efforts to control the uncontrollable (the cancer) by controlling something else, like the number of pills or the number of chairs in the room -- Reminds me very much of the joke about the drunk searching for his car keys a block away from where he lost them because "the light's better here"

I know, I don't think he is trying to control the incontrolable, but maintain the balance he has fianlly achieved handling the medecine he is on. His oxynorm is giving him terrible bowel problems which he has to fix with Movicol, which makes him nauseus so he takes ondemet. That's the main ones he is worried about. He has just the right balance for him and I think he just doesn't want to add anything more, in case he gets back to the agonising trips to the mens room like before.
On the depression note, he went to see the surgery team and saw one of the seniors. The doctor was appalled that he hadn't had blood test with his fainting and blood pressure and is concerned about his fatigue. He had x-rays and bloods taken (they ticked every single box as for what they where testing for) and needs to go back in a week for the results. He is so much more positive, i think it's because someone finally decided to treat him, not just the disease.
He is also taking loads of the advice you give us.
Thanks you are all great.

I know how he feels on the constipation front! I was having Uncle Vern's "cement bowel" problems from the oxycodone, and am dealing with that by Docqlace stool softener and magnesium citrate saline laxative, both OTC products here.

Since I am using a PEG, the tastes don't matter. The Docqlace sez it should be taken in 6 to 8 oz glass of milk or fruit juice to prevent throat irritation.

This is not uncommon. I can relate to most all of what has been said. I realized a couple of weeks ago that I would just sit there and cry and feel sorry for myself. I tried to make myself snap out of it and be thankful that I am alive, but just couldn't do it. That's when I went to my primary doctor. She was so understanding and prescribed me Celexa. She had me take 1/2 pill the first two weeks then a whole pill after that. Wow what a difference. Yes it is still hard with these life changes we have to deal with but just do your best to be there for him. Also watched American's Funniest Video's and when I start to fell bad I go to my Tivo and watch it. Laughter can be a great medicine. Stay positive !

He has had a very good week this week and has made a tremendous effort to keep awake do things, and he seems more positive. He has started going out for a coffee during the day to be around people and read the paper. I hope this is a turning point.

Martin has put on weight! he now weighs 147.7 pounds naked whereas in january he weighed 141.1 pounds clothed (he measures 6ft2 so that was very very thin).
He is happier and hungry and no longer depressed. Hooray!

That's great news. Many of us had some form of depression post Tx.

Wonderful and I bet that you are feeling better too.

Patty

I never had depression tht I know of , but I was told I was one mean character, which I have no recollection whatever. i got depressed after my gal friend of 5 yrs moved out and I still don't remember her moving unless it was done while I was in the hospital. My guardian angel at the time and she did the job well. Weight has been my problem. out it on and something else gets to you so you lose it again. WE akk get the means in us and don't even know we are mean and never will probably. But we do it anyway. I think most here have had that mean come out , but it lets up. Just smile with him and enjoy the time together.

Jim no one really has a mean character for no reason.I am sure you remember the terrible time i had with rob.He was verbally abusive toward me and at times mentally i felt like i imagine a battered wife feels,Nothing i ever did was right and i got the blame for everything.The hardest part is keeping perspective of the reasons why someone you love is being so awful towards you,pain,drugs particularly steroids and narcotics,fear,anger ,frustration.Severe depression is more a feeling of rejection for the carer as the person with the depresson withdraws away from you,and won't communicate.

As for you....men have selective memories even when they are well....lol

Hey now cookey. LOL . that is because our listeners, women that is, hear with both ears and it comes right back out between the lips... Yes I do remember the problems Rob was giving you and I made a promise to myself that I was not going to be like that. Seems I broke my promise on that one. Man I hate a liar. LOL

I agree about the selective memory in men ...
I often get "did i say that? I don't remember" but I make allowances at the moment. He doesn't mean to be mean when he is, I know he is angry with himself as illogical as it seems.
But now he is better, i do feel a lot better too.