Eric

Thanks again my brother for saving me from falling into a scenario similar to today's Mike Causey column (a Washington DC must read for federal employees, active or retired).

[quote]Typical of lots of badly wounded warriors, my friend always joked about his lengthy (and obviously painful) rehab. The worst part, he says, was four or five months in the hospital in New Orleans where the two guys on either side of his bed had a steady, long-running verbal duel. Their oratory consisted of two words. One guy would say "F--- You!," and and the other guy would respond with "F--- You!" The wordsmiths kept it up, interrupted only by periods of sleep, for months.

I hope my friend, now living in a retirement center in Alexandria, Va., isn't watching , or reading news coverage of Congress. Why? Because...

If he is paying attention, it might trigger frightful flashbacks of his time in hospital when he was stuck between two one-note dolts who, day after day and month after month, had the same deja vu argument, which in the end settled nothing.[/quote]

Your irascible humor, witty banter and unflagging determination lighten my spirits this holiday season.
Keep the Faith
Charm

Charm, it's always a pleasure my friend, like you I feel fortunate to have someone that doesn't get offended at my over analyzed thought processes and opinions. Healthy discussions and different view points are good.

For the record I do think it's a waste of money going the IV route unless the individual is vastly depleted and could not consume the nutrients orally or sublingually. If that's how Laz wants to spend his cheddar who am I to judge, God knows I've wasted money on more frivolous things...like she-goat hide underpants on Amazon for instance to try and shoot lightning out my drawers!

Hey, Merry Christmas brotha!

All - Thanks for the detailed posts. I appreciate and respect the comments/research that you have all done on the subject. You have all been through much more than I and the stories of your recoveries has been very inspirational for me and my family. I wish you all the best of luck and good karma as you all deserve it.

Eric - Congratulations on the comeback, it sounds like you have been through hell however it sounds like you made an amazing comeback (I am sure that it was and still is a lot of work). BTW - Marathons are fun events, however the training for them is really tough on the body. It may make more sense to do triathlons in order to minimize the running but capture the competitive buzz.

I am going to do three more Meyers therapies over the next 1 1/2 weeks. I guess it is debatable on the upside, however it appears that their is no downside (with the exception of the $$). Since I am not going out to eat in the short term, I can justify the expense from the entertainment budget (though buying organic food for the shakes/soups does add up)

I will keep you all updated on my progress.

This is the first nutrition thread that I can remember in the last decade that did not decline into chaos, where everyone is taking less than an absolute position on things (there are no absolutes in any of this) and where the OCF monitors didn't have to intervene and close the thread. Good information from good sources was exchanged. In the end there were some agreements, and some agreements to disagree, all done in a civil tone.

What would be the chances of the three of you running for the US congress so our government could actually get something done for its citizens again?

Brian

Whenever an argument or fight broke out between my brother,my sister and myself and one of us would plead: But he/she started it, my Mom would just say [quote]It takes two to tango[/quote]
Credit here goes to both EricS and Laz for seeing what we all had in common (hope to recover from this TX) while acknowledging we saw different routes there. But then I'd expect no less from these guys.
Now on to the important stuff: are either of them going to be my best personal time of 3 hours and 15 minutes in the Marine Corps Marathon (before cancer though) or my post cancer record of holding the plank for 13 minutes last year which made me our local gym champ? (all without vitamins except D)
Charm

Brian - A 3:15 marathon is very impressive. I was able to do a 3:38 at the NYC marathon a few years ago but the 23 minutes net difference is huge. Since I had my ACL replaced along with some meniscus repair earlier this year at a lacrosse game , I will not be doing any more marathons unless I want an artificial knee in ten years (according to my orthopedic Dr) . I do plan however on playing lacrosse again in February on the Dade Lacrosse team here in Miami.

Since Eric is much younger than you and I, we will have to see if he can beat the 3:15 benchmark. I also get the feeling that he can more than handle himself in the weight room as well.

Being able to hold a plank for 13 minutes tells us all about your fortitude.

Just to remember how lucky we all are, below is a link to the last article written by the late Christopher Hitchens who just passed away from Esophagus cancer yesterday.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/01/hitchens-201201

Laz,

I posted that article last night to my Facebook page, Charm actually posted it on these forums earlier today. Hitchens was a very talented and intelligent man and he will be missed.

As for marathons sadly they are not in the cards for me. A side effect of my mandiblectomy is my left foot (where they harvested my fibula and muscle tissue to rebuild my face) now does not have full range of motion. It's a condition called Drop Foot and even with orthotics it will not correct the issue. Where I used to run decent distance time due to wrestling, I've never ran more then ten miles at a stretch nor timed it when I did. I'm suited for more short and medium distance running due to my build, distances are for the more slender builds in my opinion.
I will tackle the plank time after the holidays and I sweat off my eggnog belly.

Brian, I've learned to never say never but in this case...never.

Eric

Don't forget the magnets ;-)

I have to part company with Eric about vitamins and supplements. IMO they are bullish*t and there is no scientific proof as to their efficacy. In fact they may even be harmful (as they just recently discovered with vitamin E). Supplements are not regulated and the strengths and purity is all over the map so how do you know what you are really taking? What they are, however, is a multibillion dollar a year snake oil business.

You should be able to get all of the vitamins and minerals you need by eating a healthy, well balanced diet. I have heard many (real) doctors state this over the years.

Osteopathy is yet another pseudoscience... Show me scientific proof please.

I think that it is hard to argue that there is not any downside and perhaps some significant beneficial upside to vitamins/supplements while we are in the recovery stage from RT/Chemo. I am not a medical expert nor claim to be, however our bodies have just been ravaged by the treatments and some additional vitamins/supplements beyond what we can digest in our diets (especially with sore throats/mouths) sounds like it makes sense.

I have read the articles about the studies about the dubious value of vitamins/supplements in normal healthy people and it is hard to argue with the data. However our bodies just got the s*** kicked out of it and therefor are way out of whack (not a very scientific description but I think that we all get the point of where I am going)

I would like to read a study about post rad/chemo recovery studies but it would be very difficult (perhaps impossible) based on the variety of variables with the data set.

Worse case with vitamins/supplements in my recovery stage (next 2-3 months) I piss it out of my system (or perhaps some would say piss $$ out of my wallet)

No magnets here, however my wife did give me a bracelet made by Tibetan monks to help guide me through the ordeal.

Gary, you big Naysayer! How did I know you were going to find this post and then rain on my parade?

Good points sir about the unregulated billion dollar industry (over $21 billion) being full of it's fair share of charlatans and people just trying to make a buck. Also on the fact that some brands do not have the amounts that are labeled on the packaging, which is why I'm really glad for Consumer Reports. They did a study on what brands to buy and found that Discount Store brands (WalMart and Costco) were the best route to go. They were the cheapest and matched the vitamin contents listed on their packaging. Thank you Consumer Reports.

Let's remember while these fat (statistically speaking of course) and out of shape real Dr's who know little about nutrition, are telling you to eat a well balanced diet (which I'm all for) they are also prescribing drugs like Vioxx (linked to over 40,000 deaths) that don't have the long term science behind them either. So let's not fall into the thinking that because these people have medical degrees that they are in complete understanding of the human body. Modern medical science is still a very young science with a lot more questions then answers at this point.

Now as there are typically "0" deaths in any given year from vitamins, I think I'll take my chances with them. I'm wondering how many deaths per year prescription drugs cause due to side effects even under a physicians care? I'm going to wager more then 0.

Good points Gary...and magnets? Have you been vaping? Of course not, there's no hard science about the benefits of that...no deaths either...hmmm...ponderous.


Eric