Hi:

My father has been in the hospital since late Thursday night. He cannot keep his food down (ensure). He has had all kinds of tests and everything comes back normal. He is getting Eurbix(sp) once a week and was recently put on the pain patch. Has anyone else experianced this? I feel so bad for him just sitting in his hospital bed. This treatment has been so awful. I feel terrible for all of victims of this horrible disease.

Boston

Did your father have nausea before the new pain patch? Pain meds often cause nausea. That sucks.

not really. He has hated getting the food via peg tube from the start and always looked a bit uncomfortable when geting it, But, he now throws it right up. He has had all kinds of tests and the drs. cannot find any physical reason for his nausea. Does the pain patch do a job on your stomach? I know he is not in any pain but he looks out of it since getting the patch a few days ago.

Hi Boston
when major pain meds are introduced some dotors automatically give an anti emetic alongside as they can cause problems.Rob was also given a stomach protector(omeprazole) to reduce the irritant effects on the stomach lining.Vomiting feeds back is also a common problem,and mostly seems to be resolved by juggling with feeding formula,timing and speed it is given with.Even something as daft as the wrong flavour can cause nausea .rob could only tolerate vanilla as the smell of the others made him wretch before i got them any where near his feeding tube.Getting nutrition right is a real minefield,and i hope it gets sorted.the first few days of fentanyl patch can cause a zonked out look,but as the body gets used to the drug this may pass,unless your dad is one of the unfortunate people who just cant toerated it.

love liz

I'm on the fentanyl patch and it did cause nausea, they gave me 10mg of prochlorperazine and it helped a little. I found that if I only used one can of ensure and injected it slowly that most times I could keep some down.

to put things in perspective, fentanyl is stronger then most street heroin you can find, in fact a few years ago people were dying because they were getting fentanyl sold to them when they thought they were getting heroin and OD'd on the stuff. It's not a drug given lightly and certainly not one to play with. I hate being on it myself and look forward to the day I'm off. You do get used to it though, I haven't had nausea in 6 months so there is hope there.

Keep your chin up and good luck

Eric

Pain meds can cause nausea and dehydration and constipation can also cause nausea.

amen for constipation and pain meds LOL Now that I understand

oh jim, don't get me started on constipation oy. When I was at the UWMC after my surgery they kept pumping me full of stool softners etc...after the 2nd day out of ICU I couldn't get off the toilet and the nurse was like "wow...I guess I shouldn't keep giving you these stool softners huh?" I wanted to throw the porta-potty at her.

Not sure if I should start a new topic here or not, but the "constant nausea" subject line got my attention as my S.O. continues w/nausea even though he's 'only' undergoing rad tx, not chemo. He was actually sent home this afternoon after he thought he was going to vomit when the tx was just about to start--he was screwed down to the table and had had the positioning xrays done and everything. Was to go back tonight once he felt better but never did feel better. This means another tx tacked on the end, I suppose. Some days the nausea is much worse than others; today obviously a bad one and this despite Zofran, Ativan, Reglan (and maybe a Compazine too). Rather discouraging. It's 10:30pm here now and he's dozing in bed but still nauseated. Won't do the fluoride trays b/c afraid that might put him over the edge. Any others w/this much difficulty w/nausea during radiation?

Boston....if your father is throwing up after doing the feedings then you need to fix the feedings. Water them down and slow it down. I went thru heck with that for weeks, so Im very familiar with this.

Ask for a feeding pump and try doing the feeding s overnight while he sleeps. It should be set very low like about 30 or 40 to start. Add 3 cans of 'food' and about 1.5 cans of water to the bag. Make sure he is propped up on 2 or 3 pillows for bed. After a couple nights he will get the hang of the nightly feedings and will sleep very well with the sound of the pump. Then during the day he will only need 2 more cans.

By slowing down the feedings and watering it down it will be much easier for him to tolerdate. Of course he still should be drinking water as much as possible if able.

Also ask for a visiting nurse to come. I dont know how, but I had one check on me for a few weeks while I learned to use the feeding machine. They were assigned to me after a breif hospital stay for malnutrition and dehydration. It was due to not being able to keep down my feedings.

You should also ask the doc for prescription formula. Its much more potent than ensure and available thru prescription. Mine was paid for by my insurance company.

Best of luck with the continuing treatments.

Michael,

I was one with constant nausea from about the 4th week or so. Nothing worked for me. It was only after I just stopped taking all my meds that the nausea finally let up but it was still months before the gag reflex eased up.

Pain meds can cause nausea as well as dehydration and constipation. Heck even anti nausea meds can cause nausea.

I guess "Michael" would be me as in MGMichael. The "Michael" part is the last name so since I'm female, it does sound funny!

Is MG better?

MG is better b/c John, the one w/the Ca, has been feeling better (nausea-wise) the past couple days. Continues w/the Zofran, Reglan, Ativan, +/- chamomile tea. Probably not 'eating' quite as much as he should be of those cans, IMO.

You must push the calories AND water or it will get much worse than it needs to get.

David, yeah, I'm kind of being a nag about that.

So do your job and NAG NAG NAG. He will appreciate later on. I guarantee it.

One of the other patients I went to radx with would get sick due to the claustrophopia of being in the mask and bolted to the table. He also got nausea from pain meds, much like I did. He had a script for medical marijuana (he lived in WA where it's legal and I lived in ID where it's not) where he used a vaporizor to inhale it so not to get any of the carcinogens etc...anyway that helped him calm down before rads, promote appetite and eased his nausea. He also said it worked well for his pain but he still had to use an opiate. I was a bit jealous as I had to take like 4 drugs to his one. I really wanted one of his brownies one day too...he said I didn't have a script....man! lol to funny.

I told my wife a few days ago (we were watching some program about pot) that if I ever had to go thru chemo again I would buy pot from one of her restaurant employees.

Most medical professionals I've talked to about it have an issue with the delivery method of smoking it. Vaporizing is the way to go there or using it in teas or foods but from what I'm told (honestly I've only tried it once and it put me to sleep...which I'd love because my current pain meds have made me an insomniac leading me to use more drugs) vaporizing is the "best". If it were legal in my state, I'd get a script in a heartbeat...I'm just funny like that. If I get a recurrance I'm moving to WA.

FYI: The "Volcano" is the gold standard for Vaporizers and my friends in New Mexico and California where marijuana is legal for cancer patients (on the state level- Feds can still bust them but new administration is not big on persecutions under the guise of prosecution)swear by it. Even their non cancer friends shun joints now is favor of vaporizing. Until the statute of limitations run, my official story is that I just watched them while visiting. Funny they had asked me if anybody on OCF was aware of how much vapor instead of smoke could help handle nausea from radiation and chemo. Until this post, I had to tell them no. Thanks Eric for broaching a very controversial issue especially since California has now ruled pot to be a potential carcinogen if smoked and will require warnings on their medical marijuana patients.
PS DavidCPA, the number one reseller of Volcano vaporizers is in Florida with prices so good, my friends in California and New Mexico ordered from him. Oh, the party line is that the vaporizers are for herbal remedies and vaporizing essential oils as in homopaethic remedies. talk about alternative treatment

What do you mean by vaporizing pot? I have smoked a joint or two, never did get to eat those brownies but how does one "deliver" the vaporized pot into ones body?

I like the reply to nausea but I don't know what to do about his diarrhea. Right now that is the worst problem. What's bad when he has had diarrhea then I have to get water down him again. This is turning into a vicious cycle.

Pam, PEG tubes work dear, does he have one? If so shoot a dose of peptobismal or kaopectate through the tube and follow it up with Pedialite or gatorade, something to replenish electrolites. If not it's got to go down the throat. I don't know of a prescription med for diarrhea.

Charm, your welcome, I figure marijuana treats pain, nausea, anxiety and helps appetite and I've never heard of anyone ODing or having a rough time getting off of it. It has a bad rep though which needs to be overcome by intelligent people like you..and David as advocates.

David, a vaporizor, does just that vaporizes the marijuana so that only the good stuff comes out in vapors that usually are pumped into a bag...then you just inhale the vapors. It reduces the amount of marijuana needed and is highly effective.

Charm, you shocked the crap out of me with that just so you know. Just when you think you know a guy!

I wonder how much of what we go thru is due to imaginary instead of real?? The power of suggestion has always worked on some people with low self esteem. I'm glad I'm stable with myself and life. Very sure of myself too.

So one still has to inhale with the vaporizer? Pot has been associated with causing SCC so I assume that delivery method would not be recommended by OC docs. Gotta get some of those brownies. Do they really work? I mean can you get high by eating pot? I guess stupid questions.

Yep, you can definitely get high by eating pot. It just has to be cooked, e.g. in brownies or spaghetti sauce. Not a stupid question, David! You just haven't been around that block yet, I guess!

Then we need to bring brownies to the island!!

Spaghetti Sauce ??? Never heard that one.

Yeah, it doesn't taste so great but...sacrifices, sacrifices, sacrifices. Anything for The Cause.

David,
I have not seen any studies that link pot to SCC, in fact I have heard of studies that exclude it from being a causitive factor.

Back to the original thread. If the diarrhea is bad enough you may want to consider rehydration in the infusion unit. It's far faster and more comfortable then going to the ER.

Nausea is tricky to manage. Some anti-emetics are more effective than others. Even Zofran only works 60% of the time, according to the manufacturer. There are also time limits to the effectiveness of some anti-emetics so they must be changed from time to time. Anti-acids may help.

If PEG feeding slow the feed rate and stay elevated while feeding. Speak with the MO and then the nutritionist for other ideas.

Try the BRAT diet to manage the diarhrea. Maybe Lomitil would help -ask your doctor.

Gary,

Every time I teach a class with my RO, Dr Trotti at Moffitt, he puts up a slide on the causes of SCC and right there is marijuana. Perhaps I jumped the gun on the word studies but how else would he have concluded pot was a cause unless it was documented somewhere.

well there have been studies that have shown that smoking releases carcinogens that cause cancer however other studies show that caniboids actually can help fight cancer...to me you can find a study for anything.

Smoking anything in my opinion is unhealthy. The vaporizing is great because you are only getting the THC and there is no carcinogens released.

Yes you can get high from eating pot, cooking it releases more of the THC however you can get high from chewing it although it's not really effective

Here's a study, that I missed where they PAY you $600 to smoke 3 joints a day (you know it can't be very good pot if you can smoke 3 whole joints a day - it was grown by the Fed at their pot farm and had "moderate" THC content - probably the same as low grade Mexican pot)!

http://news.ucsf.edu/releases/ucsf-testing-medical-marijuana-for-cancer-pain/

They also did one in 2006 for the vapor form of it.

Needless to say, medical use of marijuana is controversial and some studies claim a link to H&N cancer although I haven't been able to find any numbers or statistics. It would make sense that anything that irritates the head and neck area could have a mutagegenic effect, alcohol containing mouthwash, Nyquil, hot drinks, even excessively cold drinks I have read (to name a few).
I have a agree with Eric that you can find a study that will tell you what you want to know. The double blind, scientific unbiased studies are what is really needed.

I did not even see pot until after I had finished college and thankfully so because I would probably still be in college if I had tried it then. Three joints a day...I guess you have to work in a restaurant to participate in that study. lol

There's the rub - you had to remain in the hosptial for the entire study - so munchies meant hospital food.

Well well well. I am surprised equally that David got through college without inhaling. Thanks Gary for the study reference. Here is one a year later from Calif NORML on the Volcano vapor being mostly THC with none of the carciogens that go with Cancer study. I was going to let this drop until I saw David's post about a doctor listing marijuana as causing oral cancer since if that were true, this board would be mostly Rastfarian, or Dutch posters. I have seen lots of studies in favor of vaporization yet never seen one valid study showing pot to cause cancer of any sorts. Norml health claims
EricS: I started out my legal career working for a State Attorney General'a office and got involved in the early studies showing how marijuana prohibition would destroy the integrity of police departments plus disqualify good applicants plus the dangers of making drug use from "malum prohibitum" into a "malum per se" (Fancy lawyer latin for evil because a law says so as compared to evil because of its nature; example: drinking under 21 compared to murder)
don't forget when I started college LSD was legal and by law school you would have thought pot was legal the way the students and teachers smoked at parties. ah, the old daze
Seriously, while I am sticking with Zofran, the anecdotal evidence is quite high (bad pun) for vaporized marijuana being useful for nausea since there is no combustion and no smoke, therefore no carcinogenic PAHs (polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons).
charm

While all you Liberal Arts hippie types threw Frisbees and smoked all day, we in the School of Business had to actually wear ties to class. I even HAD to take a class on what to wear in the business world....and the first CPA firm I worked for only permitted white dress shirts and dark suits.

No liberal arts here, although I have respect for them. I went in for business and technology myself and started my professional career in tech support and worked my way to Sales and Consulting. I made it back into the hospitality industry and began to general manage and consult hotels. I lived in a Nautica tie and loved my Brooks Bros and Claiborne suits.

Now I can't do that anymore and none of my suits fit my skinny frame.

Eric,

Don't throw your clothes away. I wasn't overweight for my height or frame pre Tx and I lost a ton of weight so nothing fit me for over a year post Tx and I thought this was going to me the way I weighed forever but then in my 2nd year of recovery I started to be able to gain weight and I am back to my old weight so some of the stuff I bought during my skinny period aren't comfortable to wear anymore.

Chiming in with David, I lost over 60 lbs and my MO siad not to worry that in 2 years I would be fat again (I never really was fat). I lost so much weight I was actually able to fit in my wifes size "0" jeans. I put about 1/2 of it back on and am at the perfect BMI for my height. Everybodies story in unique, I think most have put all of the weight back on eventually and then some.

Interesting discussion here, especially as regards maryjane. I've been nauseated more or less continually since about the 4th week of my 6 weeks of RT... and now it's 6 weeks post-treatment. I had no chemo.

I find that Zofran does little for me. I take a Prilosec capsule twice a day. I've weaned myself off the 14-16 Oxycodone I was gulping every day (after an equal number of Percocet, until my throat wouldn't tolerate their size), so it can't be the Oxy talking. Or gurgling I suppose. I also bought some ginger capsules, took half a gram/day or a gram/day based on some study results I read about online. Can't say they're much help.

I plan to ask my RO about medical pot when I see her this week. I'm sure she'll write me a scrip if she feels it will help, and here in Los Angeles it's easy enough to find.

I'd never heard of vaporization. What about a liquid form - anyone know about that? And what about Marinol, is that effective?

Wish I had more to offer the original poster about how to combat nausea! After 2 months straight with very little letup I'm about done with this!

David

Again I was one perhaps like you that nothing seemed to work for me in the nausea dept. I also was given a script for Marinol, like $20 a pill!!, and I thought back to my post college days and just knew this would increase my appetite and decrease my nausea and maybe give me a little buzz at the same time....NOT...What a total waste of money and time. They didn't do any of the above. See if you can get a script for 3 or 4 and try them. lol

As I have said before I finally just stopped taking all my meds and the nausea went away but left me with a gag reflex that stayed with me for a month or so at least.

David 2

Just do a google search on "volcano vaporizer" to get info on using medical marijuana without smoking. In California you should have no problem. As usual DavidCPA has accurate advice, the Marinol pills are essentially worthless since they are not the highly complex organic mix of marijuana but just THC. It is highly hyped by the DEA in an effort to keep themselves in business with pot prohibition but I have never heard of any patient it helped. But I keep an open mind, so if you do get Marinol, let us know how it works. As I said, friends in California swear by their Volcano - both AIDS and Cancer patients as an effective nausea treatment. Not scientific proof, but then the DEA will not grant any licenses to do the studies to get scientific proof. Catch22
Charm

Thanks very much indeed, David and Charm. I'll certainly post results if I do go the MJ route, and I'll mention to my RO that based on my readings Marinol is ineffective. She of course may or may not have any experience with this stuff.... but she's very smart and also open-minded and doesn't seem to want to do anything but help.

We shall see!

D2

My husband is having constant nausea. We have changed canned nutrition from Cal 2 to Nutren 2.0. I've watered down the food. He is now using a continuous feed machine at night. We thought it was the liquid Hydrocordone. He is taking Phenergan, Zofran, Transderm Scop patch, Xanax 25, Lomotil, Fentanyl 50, Protonix 40. Nothing seems to stop the constant nausea. He does vomit every once in a while, although at first he was vomiting a lot more. He doesn't want to take his food now, but that isn't going to help him feel any better. He can hardly swallow so there is no help there either. I am about ready to pull out my hair! Any ideas? The doctors haven't been much help so I am at my wit's end. Thanks, Pam

Pam, slow down the pump to about 20. Make sure you use 1/2 can of extra water per can of formula. After your husband can tolerate this for a week then gradually move up the speed to 30, give it a few days then 40 and so on. After about 3 weeks you should be up to about 100. If he gets sick, back down the speed again. I had a terrible time with the formulas and had to be switched to 3 different ones.

Unfortunately, nasuea goes with the chemo/rad combos. Once it gets out of hand its already too late to catch it. Make sure he takes the anti nasuea meds even if he thinks he doesnt need them. I used Zofran and it worked as best as could be expected. Compazine gave me a bad reaction.

Hope things improve. Its a rough road but it cna be done.

I am not advocating giving up meds without discussing this with your doctors but I was one that couldn't shake my constant nausea until I finally stopped taking all my meds. My docs were skeptical that my meds were my problem but it did stop my nausea and allowed me to keep food and water down and it made a big difference. Note that I did not have a Peg to fall back on so I had to swallow all my food and water.

I'm also not a pill expert but the list of meds your husband is taking seems excessive; perhaps overlapping or perhaps the wrong combination but that's just my uneducated opinion. Has he been seen by a Pain Management Team?

I never had nausea for one second but lost 70 lbs, 33

I wear a 33 waist now and am up to 170. Still 50 below the 220 I was at when this began. I'm going to try and top out at 174 which is what I waeighted at high school graduation just after I turned 17. Slim and sexy LOL now for some dang teeth.

Some days my husband doesn't have nausea, other days it is really bad. He is getting both radiation and chemo. We keep thinking it is the chemo b/c his nausea gets a bit better the farther away from the chemo treatment we get. Some foods also trigger the nausea, especially any type of animal fat. It seems everyone is different. Nausea is a constant companion. I think the radiation must cause some nausea b/c after his treatment each day he feels more nauseous. The meds help a lot when he has a bad day.
Hang in there......

Vanessa

Never had nausea with any treatment here. =That has to be miserable.

Well turns out neither my RO nor my regular GP were terribly interested in prescribing the magic weed. But meanwhile the latter sent me to a gastro doc. The upshot: in a couple of hours I'm having a gastroscopy to see if there's something else going on down there. Be nice to have some answers, but I've been through these things enough to know that solid answers often aren't forthcoming! Oh well, at least I'll get half an hour's sleep on the Versed....

David (2, that is)

One can't rx medical marijuana in CA w/o a special license anyway, so unless your RO or GP have that license, that's a dead end.

Yes... my oncologist mentioned something like that although I'd never heard of it. But if I decide to go that route I have the name of a doc with the proper creds. Thanks for the tip.

My husband Jim has started his second cycle of chemo and has 19 radiation left. They increased his Fentanyl patch to 100 mcg which helps his pain and he is taking Decadron daily for the next week to help his nausea. It is amazing how much difference the Decadron has made because he was nauseous all the time. We are hoping they will let him continue taking the Decadron until he is at least finished with chemo in 2 weeks.

Here's an update on the medical marijuana issue. A friend brought me over 2 kinds of cannabis lozenges and I've tried them both now. The result: nada. No affect on the nausea, no stimulation of appetite, no other discernible effects.... although I did note excess fatigue several hours after trying the first type, but not the second. I'm debating whether to try two of them at a time. Not hopeful, alas.

D2

Last add: scored some Marinol capsules, which I'd read about disparagingly in these posts so wasn't particularly keen to try. They seem to work the same as the other stuff, that is, no effect on nausea or appetite nor other overt effects. But they do make me tired so help with sleep. Oh well.

d2