Is there something that can be used instead of fluoride. I'm doing 5 minutes a day with dental trays. I'm going to ask my onco dentist about this, but I'd also like to hear opinions here.

Curious why you are looking fo a substitute? What's the problem?

Jerry

There is nothing else that has the caries prevention potential of Fluoride.

My instructions were ten minutes and no food or drink for one-half hour. Rather than mess around, I just wear them for at least a half hour, sometimes much longer if I am reading or watching DVD.

What I don't like is the excess gel in my mouth -- I drilled a small (1/16") hole in the cap and now when I squeeze the tube only a small stream comes out in the trays, so there is less excess gel in my mouth.

I also use a tongue cleaner, plus rinsing, to get the excess out of my mouth. I happen to have both kinds pictured. The scrapers are also useful to clean out the junk that builds up from nutritional drinks like Nutrena, Ensure, VHC, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue_scraper

I asked my dentist about a mouthwash that someone recommended a while back on these posts. It is called Phos-Flur and is by Colgate. It has 4.4mg of Sodium flouride. My dentist said that I could just use that every day instead of the flouride trays. Anyone else using Phos-Flur?

Pete,

A man after my own heart. That's a nifty idea. I'll have to try it on my next tube as I'm almost finished with the current one. It doesn't seal or clog up between uses? I also keep my trays in for the half an hour no drink time.

I don't do the trays. I am too lazy I think to stick with it. :-)

When pressed, the head dentist at MD Anderson said I could just brush with a prescription strength fluoride toothpaste 2x daily instead.

I have no idea if this is truely as good as the trays, seems like it wouldn't be, but maybe my case is different.

You might ask about it. The best I've found is by Discus Dental, called FLUORIDEX. It is 1.1%.

Tastes OK. (Yikes, don't do the fruit flavor!! YUK)

Anyway, be sure and run the idea by a DDS first. I get my toothpaste from my local DDS. However, in NY it was at almost every DwayneReed, so different places have different rules.

Something else, kinda off-topic, can someone point me to info about Fluoride being linked to increase cancer risk..?

I was told 20-30 minutes. I put my floride trays in when I shower which isn't the best time since I shower in the am. But if shower at night, yor're don't have to waste another 20 minutes to do the trays.

Take care,
Eileen

Time management at it's best as long as you don't open your mouth. LOL

My dentist told me to not use the trays in the am, but at night right before I go to sleep. Makes sense if you can do it.

David, it does gum up a little and takes a bit of force anyway to squeeze through that small hole, but using it daily keeps it going -- Drill your old cap, in case you don't like the results -- I need a roller for the plastic tube...

I have been using the phos-flur because its so easy. The trays are a hassle for me. The gel burns my tongue and my info sheet from UF sais if you don't overflow the trays you are not treating the teeth all the way to the gumline.

I am not sure how the phos-flur will work out long term. I just started oral intake 10 days ago after 7 months on g-tube. 5 cans of ensure plus, some semi solid food and then fruit is a lot more of a challenge for the enamel than nothing.

One of the issues is that the phos-flur is ONLY 4.4 mg fluoride per 10 ml swish which is 0.44%. The stuff that is used with the trays is 1.1%. Plus with the swish you can�t be 100% sure where the treatment is going.

I�m going to try the trays in the shower though. Maybe I�ll do trays a couple times a week and swish the others. Thanks for the ideas.

Mike


age 53 TxN2bM0 stage IV tongue and 2 nodes, non smoker, non-drinker, heavy plastic wrap exposure 25+ years, 2 surgeries, neck dissection, 60 GY IMRT+ cisplatin X5 completed 07/09, new primary on tongue 11/09, biopsy got it all, praise God!

I have been using Oral B, Neutra-Foam, 2% (0.9 Flouride Ion), with my trays. It is a foam and easy to apply in the trays. Non burning, pH neutral, 4 minute application, prescription only. Stronger flouride is available - if you can talk your dentist into it.

The new stuff the hygenist uses in the office is a "paint on" flouride.

Dental care is going to be a lifetime issue after radiation. Your gums are going to take a beating, you will have root exposure and complacency can be a dangerous risk. There is no esceape from this, unless you have dentures of course or want to gamble with Osteradionecrosis.

Flouride can be toxic if ingested. Unless you're a male between 6 and 8 years old, there doesn't appear to be any cancer risk. This has been a controversial subject since municipalities started doing it.

See http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20060406/does-fluoridation-up-bone-cancer-risk

I started using my trays 1 month pre Tx and except for a few miserable days during Tx I have used them every night since.

I was told to use the trays for 4 minutes daily, and the dentist - this was the specialist who examined me before RT and who made the trays - said that a small line of the stuff squirted into the trays would do the trick. (he gave me a tube of one brand of stannous fluoride 0.4% when I visited him, the name of which I forget; now I'm buying Gel-Kam through Ebay or Amazon)

Some of you have written that you leave the trays in for half an hour. That's a long way from 4 minutes! Is this something a dentist or oncologist recommended? I'll certainly ask my regular dentist about this next time I see him. Ditto the idea of that mouthwash substitute someone wrote about.

Thanks.
David 2

According to my prosthodontist, the .4 persent stannis flouride is stronger than the 1.1 percent sodium flouride. I put the trays in when I shower and use Gel-Kam fruit and berry flavor. This does not burn my mouth. Trays are supposed to be in for about 20 minutes. Best time is in the evening before going to bed.

Eileen

My instruction were to keep the trays in for five minutes and not to eat or drink anything for an hour.

Nothing was mentioned about when (AM or PM), just to do it daily (I plan to ask about this though).

I was switched from the .4 Stannous to the 1.1. Sodium because the Stannous was staining my teeth. I was told with frequent use (pretty much daily in our case) that the difference between Stannous and Sodium fluoride isn't a concern.

Verrrrrry interesting. Thanks to you both, Eileen and Don. We seem to have a significant difference of advice in re time: Eileen's 20 mins vs. Don's 5 and my 4 (it was recommended to me to use the trays just before bed as well).

Wonder if there's a "right" answer??

D2

Yes, I did forget to mention that the .4 stannous fluoride does stain your teeth badly. Actually I think I was told a half hour, and nothing to eat or drink for another half hour. Dr. Mike was the one that said it is better to use it in the evening.

So what are the names of the 1.1 sodium fluorides you guys are using? I'd like to try one and see if it doesn't stain my teeth.

Take care,
Eileen

Follow the instructions for use by the manufacturer, unless your health care provider instructs you otherwise.

I named the stuff I use in my earlier post. You will need a prescription.

I was told (I use the 1.1) that I had to keep them on for at least 3 mins and not drink, etc for 30 and I was told bedtime was best since I wouldn't likely eat or drink after I put it on so i just put mine on and keep them on for the whole 30 mins and then go to sleep. I have never had a problem with burning or anything else except if I happen to forget to put my trays away in a drawer one of my cats will take off with them and they are hard to locate and often chewed up a bit when I find them.

Eileen,
I use a product called NEUTRA MAXX 5000ppm GEL 1.1% Sodium Fluroide, but there are a lot of different brands available.

It says "Rx only" on the squeeze bottle, but I get it at the Medical Center's Prosthodontics Offices (same as where my Cancer Center is located} so I just drop in and pick up a couple bottles as I need them.

I was their patient during Tx -- (xrays, eval, trays and follow-ups). I don't seem to need a prescription and at $12 a bottle I have never messed with trying to submit it to my insurance.

I think one of the girls told me that in California you really don't need a prescription to buy Fluoride of this strength!

Thanks for the info guys. I will ask my peridontist when I see him at the end of the month.

Eileen

One year out from treatment, no tooth problems yet. I have noticed yellowing of the teeth a little, but nothing too bad. I use my trays when I go to bed, don't take them out until I wake-up for water. I asked my dentist if there was a limit to how long they were safe to wear, and he said no problem. They seem to help me with dry mouth when I sleep. I keep my mouth closed more and there is probably a slight hydration benefit. Normally I wake every two hours with a dry mouth, this way I can get 3-5 hours. I don't remember the brand but it has never burned. I do over-flow the trays and then spit out the excess right before I get into bed. Last dentist visit they said I had the cleanest teeth of the day!