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#81702 10-08-2008 09:09 AM
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jennie Offline OP
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So Erik has finished his 16 weeks of Taxol and Erbitux. This second round was easier than the first (no radiation) He was exhausted and pretty mopey, but overall he did very well. He has been done since August 28th and is now even back to work. Thats not the crazy part...This weekend he told me that he wants to join a gym that trains for "cagefighting" This is just CRAZY to me. After everything he' been through and now he wants to go get his head beat in..Erik is a very calm person, not aggressive at all and has never really liked physical contact sports (he hated football as a kid) So when I asked him "why cage fighting?" he said "because it will make me feel like a man, I can get some of this agression out." He went on to explain that being an invalid had made him feel emasculated and wussy, and he wanted something to make him feel (macho)manly. He told me that I was not the one emasculinating him, that I wasnt the factor in this that it was "just him feeling this way". He became very emotional when he was talking to me about this, and therefore I did take it serious-(which was hard at first) But I guess my thing is have any of you guys felt like-less than a man after your treatments? I personally think that he needs some counseling, but he says that just makes him feel like a girl-all the talking and sharing of feelings.
This is just so unlike him, and plain old wierd. Can anyone shed some light on this for me.
Jenn


Caregiver to Erik -1st DX 12/22/2005 SCC of Tongue, T3N1M0, hemi-glossectomy,60 nodes removed, carboplatnin,Erbitux, 35Rads.
Reoccurrence T1N0M0 4/14/08-partial glossectomy-16 weeks Erbitux and Taxol-
3rd reoccurrence 5/18/12- partial glossectomy
jennie #81706 10-08-2008 10:00 AM
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Wow Jen that is quite over the fence. From the patients view I can kinda relate to what your husband is feeling. First of all I need to say I am very grateful for my life. I am not a phsyciatrist nor and am not male but am finding being "limited" is extremely frustrating.
I have experience with my son who has anger issues and the more dangerous the activity the better he feels. It has been scary to watch these extreme sports. I opted for putting him in group sports helped . I know I will be able to get back to "normal" life soon but it doesn't seem soon enough. I also understand the need to get out aggression. I too am not nor have ever been an aggressive person but it does build up. Hopefully you can talk to him about maybe something not quite as drastic but will allow him to regain some of what he considers manhood...Does he have a male friend that he could maybe just spar with or another activity that seems to get rid of agression is believe it or not go carting...sounds simple but for some reason it worked for my husband and son. There are a lot of things that would have the same effect but less brutal...
Maybe a male friend to help do a high energy activity with him
and he might open up to his friend guys do that hopefully he has a close male bonding type friend maybe this might help.


Dianne..treatment at cc at Victoria Hospital, London, Ontario...insulin dependant, Surgery Sept 8/08 Tracheotomy,composite resection and bilateral neck dissection, left radial forearm free flap... T2N0 squamous cell carcinoma. No radiation A little over 2 yrs clear YAY
darkeyedlady0 #81715 10-08-2008 01:38 PM
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I didn't feel less of a man necessarily but I did feel that my life had been taken from me so it was important to reclaim my old lifestyle. It's frustrating because our recovery is so slow and it takes months if not years to get back close to what our pre Tx normal was and that's if you're one of the lucky ones.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
davidcpa #81721 10-08-2008 02:13 PM
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David you really have a way of understanding...when I read your post I thought that is exactly what I am feeling and probably the driving force behind Jennie's husband feelings. Frustrating is right but still thankful gotta still give thanks...I guess today this topic has hit me right on the head hard...I am not a guy but what you said makes sense I am frustrated and bored. Nobody will let me do nothin kinda stuck in the appartment...grrr...I know it will take time and all the logical parts but I am so not used to this...I am only one month out from my surgery...I want to go to work but I know logically not possible...Frustrated is definately the word of the day.


Dianne..treatment at cc at Victoria Hospital, London, Ontario...insulin dependant, Surgery Sept 8/08 Tracheotomy,composite resection and bilateral neck dissection, left radial forearm free flap... T2N0 squamous cell carcinoma. No radiation A little over 2 yrs clear YAY
darkeyedlady0 #81776 10-09-2008 10:57 AM
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Jenn,

I understand his feelings and why he wants to do this. Being a caregiver thru all this I think you get his basic reason for watning to do this. The feling of being so powerless over the situation and having no control over it. Now that he's done and starting to have more energy he just wants to hit something tear up whatever this was that made him feel so poweless and not in control.
I too am no psycologist but I think that he is communcating with you and that's good. He's trying to express what's going on with him and not bottling it up like so many others might do.
I would just continue to communicate and maybe try to get him to compromise. I would be totally freaked out if my husband wanted to start cage fighting as well and my first thought would also be, " Your crazy"! It is not his charecter either to want to do something like that.
There are many avenues out there that your husband could pursue that are less physically damaging to him but would also give him the opportunity to vent. Maybe you could compromise with training in Akido or Taekwondo. they both have events of sparing and "fighting" but also have good philosophies that they teach in conjuction with the fighting technique. Tell him your freaked about this and ask if there is something else he can do that you both are comfortable with him doing.
I'm confident this too will pass. Mostly because I can see the two of you are sharing with eachother and that is the most important part of getting over this. being able to voice what is in your heart and mind is a bigger obsatcle to overcome then the physical pain and suffering of recovery. Hang in there Lady this too will pass.
~Ija~


Ija wife-husband 47y healthy nonsmoker,nvr chewed.Dx SCC 01/05 primary left anterior toungue w/2 surgeries 02/05 no rad/chemo recurrence 12/07 no rad/chemo. 07/08/08 modified lt radical neck disection 3 nodes removed 2 pos SCC. TX 090808 taxol & carboplatinx7 radx37 w/ethyol.
MS T #81814 10-10-2008 07:09 AM
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Before my cancer I road my bike without to any cares even though I had fallen many times and had been hit by a car (hit and run) and had to have a 6 hour rotator cuff surgery. After Tx I wanted desperately to feel in control, free and normal again and my bike was my ticket. When I started riding again my wife was upset and would often say, "I saved your butt from cancer so you can go out and get run over by a car!!!" As always she made perfect sense but as always I didn't listen so off I went. I do, however, ride with a different respect for my life now.


David

Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
jennie #81840 10-10-2008 12:40 PM
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Jenny

It's not crazy - just an overreaction. No one talks or writes about sex here, but assuming that is back on track- then gym work and martial arts are understandable. IMO Shotokan Karate would be much better than cage fighting for him. I liked Aikido but it isn't going to address the masculinity issue since petite women can toss big brutes around all too easily. In Karate, my strength and weight let me beat far superior female opponents in sparring (although the dojo party line is that's not true but there are valid reasons why boxing enforces weight limits in matches despite a featherweight being as good or better a boxer than a heavyweight).
However, if he is of slight build and not particularly strong for a guy, then Aikido would be fantastic. Anyway, it is a guy thing as I would lock myself in the bathroom and cry over how skinny and weak I looked in the mirror. Six days a week down at the gym, lifting weights and doing Pilates and Yoga really built my muscle mass up and I finally have a six pack stomach for the first time ever. Finally, he may want to take up running as there is no more "manly" rush than crossing the finish line at a marathon or finishing in the top ten at a 10K.
Silly I know, but just listen to some current country songs and humor him a little.


65 yr Old Frack
Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+
2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG
2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery
25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin
Apaghia /G button
2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa
40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin

Passed away 4-29-13
Charm2017 #81850 10-10-2008 02:38 PM
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My wife wanted me to add that she did think I was CRAZY and that she agrees with you.
BTW: she was my caretaker and rock.


65 yr Old Frack
Stage IV BOT T3N2M0 HPV 16+
2007:72GY IMRT(40) 8 ERBITUX No PEG
2008:CANCER BACK Salvage Surgery
25GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin
Apaghia /G button
2012: CANCER BACK -left tonsilar fossa
40GY-CyberKnife(5) 3 Carboplatin

Passed away 4-29-13
Charm2017 #81874 10-10-2008 06:56 PM
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Jenn,
After reading your post and responding it opened up a channel of discussion between my Husband and I on the way to treatment yesterday. I have to say my opening line after filling him in on the content of the posts was," Your not gonna want to do something like THAT are you?" He chuckled, and said no (whew!) but he understood what your husband was trying to express.
He did have a few constructive criticisms about doing cage fighting.
1. Most of the folks in those cages are way out of control and a little bit crazy. and in saying so....
2. There is no guarantee that your husband won't be pummeled instead of doing his own pummeling and that would not boost his ego or help him feel any less emasculated.
and most importantly.....
3. Treatment does weaken the bones in your jaw and face and he could really, really get hurt even if he ended up winning the fight.
After mulling over everything my husband said, he'd like to go out and do something that makes him feel exhilarated and happy to be alive. I was a little scared to ask what. So didn't. Eek! he probably wants to go sky diving or something. Ahem... Did someone mention sex earlier? I'd like to think that when that comes back on track he'd find that, "exhilarating and make him happy to be alive."(well a woman can hope can't she?)
Hang in there Lady. Just keep talking and hopefully he'll come around and find something a little less dangerous to his health. He did just win the ultimate "cage fight" out there. I can't see how he can top that!
After our conversation in the car I have a feeling I'm going to be rolling my eyes and telling my Hubby he's kookier then the Cocoa Puffs Cuckoo bird soon enough myself. Men!


Ija wife-husband 47y healthy nonsmoker,nvr chewed.Dx SCC 01/05 primary left anterior toungue w/2 surgeries 02/05 no rad/chemo recurrence 12/07 no rad/chemo. 07/08/08 modified lt radical neck disection 3 nodes removed 2 pos SCC. TX 090808 taxol & carboplatinx7 radx37 w/ethyol.
MS T #81887 10-10-2008 11:37 PM
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I guess he wants to kick some butt. I think he has a huge amount of anger inside him and this would be one way to release some of it. Either he will pummel someone else and get some relief that way, or he will be in such pain his tears will be attributed to the fight.

Agreed that he needs to talk. Maybe an opening line like......"i guess you must feel really angry that this has happened to you..." might ber enough to get the conversation started? Just a thought.

Donna


Donna,69, SCC L Tongue T2N1MO Stg IV 4/04 w/partial gloss;32 radtx; T2N2M0 Stg IV; R tongue-2nd partial gloss w/graft 10/07; 30 radtx/2 cispl 2/08. 3rd Oral Cancer surgery 1/22 - Stage 1. 2022 surgery eliminated swallowing and bottom left jaw. Now a “Tubie for Life”.no food envy - Thank God! Surviving isn't easy!!!! .Proudly Canadian - YES, UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE IS WONDERFUL! (Not perfect but definitely WONDERFUL)
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