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#53859 02-05-2007 01:12 PM
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Talbill Offline OP
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Has anybody heard of the unpatented drug DCA? I heard of it through Paul Harvey on the radio. The initals stand for dichloroacetate. I found the link on www.newescientist.com and it seems so simple on how it works. It attacks the glycolysis of the cancer cell forcing it back to mitochondria in which they wither and die. From what I get out of this is it is all in the way cancer gets it sugar. It is used to treat rare metobolic disorders and is relatively safe. How would one get something like this into a clinical study? Sounds pretty good to me. Bill B


Bill B. Dx 10-16-06 Stage 4 T2N2bM0 SCC Left Tonsil,3 nodes. 1st tx 11-28-06, last tx 1-8-07. 3x Cisplatlin, 5fu pump, and Doxetaxel. Modified neck dissection,20 Nodes removed, all clear 02-21-07. HPV+,33 IMRT start 3-22-07 70GY,Completed 05-04-07 smile
#53860 02-05-2007 02:26 PM
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Bill, I think the red flag here is "unpatented"
I did a search on DCA; it does seem to "kill" cancer cells. So does vitamin C, and capscicum( the heat in hot peppers). Both of those have the same claim, yet neither is used in cancer treatment.

There isn't much likelyhood that someone will pick it up and start any sort of significant study. The cancer research dollars are spread pretty thin, and this is the sort of thing that is not likely to see much main stream funding.

If it worked as described, I would agree; it sounds good. Almost too good to be true. That's usually the grind; they forget to mention all of the "less than encouraging" results.

just my opinion
Wayne


SCC left mandible TIVN0M0 40% of jaw removed, rebuilt using fibula, titanium and tissue from forearm.June 06. 30 IMRT Aug.-Oct. 06
#53861 02-05-2007 02:33 PM
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I read something (on the internet, of course, so don't take it to heart) that pomegranate's and pomegranate juice can help to prevent prostate/breast cancer or something like that.

And there is this Brandt diet where you fast for 12 hours and just drinking water, and then you eat grapes (slowly) for another 12 hours, and it goes on like this for 6 weeks. And what the water does is it starves the cancer cells of nutrients, and when you eat the grapes there are certain nutrients in it so it kills the cancer. Probably not true. But myths are pretty cool.

#53862 02-05-2007 04:01 PM
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no "probably" about it; dangerously untrue. There are so many "myths" around...some of them are so silly they're humerous. Others....well, they're offensive.

You just KNOW that there will be some poor soul, desparately searching for the "miracle cure" who falls hook, line and sinker for some of this stuff, and shuns conventional treatments.

The end result is usually an obituary. When I was first diagnosed, I had a bunch of people tell me about this "cure" or that one, and how it was much easier than surgery and radiation. What none of them really understood is that their "cures" didn't work. I'm sticking with what I can research, treatments with medically PROVEN success rates. I'm here today because of modern medicine, not alternative cures
Wayne


SCC left mandible TIVN0M0 40% of jaw removed, rebuilt using fibula, titanium and tissue from forearm.June 06. 30 IMRT Aug.-Oct. 06
#53863 02-05-2007 05:49 PM
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[quote]There isn't much likelyhood that someone will pick it up and start any sort of significant study.[/quote]In the interests of accuracy, the New Scientist article includes a link to the University of Alberta (Canada) and the Alberta Cancer Board and mentions plans for clinical trials.

The studies cited in the New Scientist article were by scientists at the University of Alberta; the story was also picked up by Newsweek and The Economist (link to that article on the University of Alberta site, above)

The scientific paper that all this is based on is in the January 2007 isssue of the journal Cancer Cell .

-- Leslie


Leslie

April 2006: Husband dx by dentist with leukoplakia on tongue. Oral surgeon's biopsy 4/28/06: Moderate dysplasia; pathology report warned of possible "skip effect." ENT's excisional biopsy (got it all) 5/31/06: SCC in situ/small bit superficially invasive. Early detection saves lives.
#53864 02-06-2007 04:38 AM
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Talbill Offline OP
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Leslie, thanks for the back up! The first couple of post were getting a little rough. I was not trying to raise any false hopes of a super cure all for cancer. But from my take on the article, it seemed like a little used and cheap drug could be the big bullet in 5-10 years with a couple of good clinical studies. Now how broad of a killing capability for different cancers the studies would have to prove. Would the HPV angle play in? I would like to think somebody or some cause would persue this. I would really hate it if simple treatments are overlooked simply because somebody can't make a fortune in returns and cancer victims keep paying the price.


Bill B. Dx 10-16-06 Stage 4 T2N2bM0 SCC Left Tonsil,3 nodes. 1st tx 11-28-06, last tx 1-8-07. 3x Cisplatlin, 5fu pump, and Doxetaxel. Modified neck dissection,20 Nodes removed, all clear 02-21-07. HPV+,33 IMRT start 3-22-07 70GY,Completed 05-04-07 smile
#53865 02-06-2007 05:59 AM
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Pomegranate Juice has also been used in clinical trials and been associated with less recurrence of prostate cancer, according to an article on WebMD. The study was small and more research is needed according to the summary on WebMD but it does sounds promising.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/106/108151.htm

It's always good to be skeptical of claims such as these but a true skeptic keeps an open mind, does not dismiss things out of hand until they see research. And research is being done on many of these things!

Nelie


SCC(T2N0M0) part.glossectomy & neck dissect 2/9/05 & 2/25/05.33 IMRT(66 Gy),2 Cisplatin ended 06/03/05.Stage I breast cancer treated 2/05-11/05.Surgery to remove esophageal stricture 07/06, still having dilatations to keep esophagus open.Dysphagia. "When you're going through hell, keep going"
#53866 02-07-2007 04:02 AM
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Bill and Leslie, I didn't mean to sound harsh; this is a sensitive subject with me. I have lost several family members to theses sorts of "cures" and nearly saw my father fall into the same sort of thing recently. He's battling lung cancer, and was convinced that Goji juice was going to make him well.

After tons of hype, it turns out that Goji juice offers him very little that he couldn't get with a glass of Florida orange juice.

To say I'm suspect of these sorts of claims is an understatement. As for the Alberta Cancer Board and their evaluation, this is from their webpage;

"At this point, the University of Alberta, the Alberta Cancer Board and Capital Health do not condone or advise the use of dichloroacetate (DCA) in human beings for the treatment of cancer since no human beings have gone through clinical trials using DCA to treat cancer."

They go on to say that they plan on doing limited clinical trials in future. I am a patient of the Alberta Cancer Board, and I enquired about this trial. They told me that there were no funds being allocated to follow through with this claim, citing lack of quantitative evidence of it's potential.

They also said it may continue if private funding were to become available, but that was unlikely.

Where my concerns lie in these situations is more with what isn't disclosed than what is.

With the Goji juice as an example, there are vast quantities of information on the web about how it will cure almost anything that ails you...that prestigious cancer centers (Sloan Kettering for one) are endorsing and using it on their patients.

Dig JUST below the surface, and you find that the Sloan Kettering claim is based on an independant research scientist that has done work with Sloan Kettering in past, saying that he did a small labratory experiment that saw small reductions in tumors in lab mice.

Mice....and a researcher that USED to work with Sloan. That became an advertising cornerpost for those selling the product at $50 a bottle.

Sloan vehemently denies ever appoving or using it for treating cancer, and the researcher invovled was appalled to learn his comments had been so badly misconstrued ( this information, by the way is from a CBC investigation that has also led to a criminal investigation in Canada regarding Goji juice and it's promoters)

There are no "simple" cures for cancer, as we all know. It's wonderful to think that someday there may be, but I'm near certain that pomegranites or a grape and water diet isn't it.

I too would hate to see something simple and readily available to be passed by, but I believe that researchers, wherever they may be, are prudent, practical and realistic scientists; never discount anything, examine all results with objectivity, and never let the desired outcome taint their perception of actual results in a scientific environment.

Wayne


SCC left mandible TIVN0M0 40% of jaw removed, rebuilt using fibula, titanium and tissue from forearm.June 06. 30 IMRT Aug.-Oct. 06
#53867 02-07-2007 04:58 AM
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For what it's worth, I didn't take Bill's inquiry, or the mention of pomegranate juice, to be advocating that *anyone* use these products in place of traditional medical treatments. And of course, no clinical trial would do that either. As is mentioned in the header, this is an area to discuss *adjunctive*, not *alternative*, therapies (Wayne, it sounds like your family members used whatever they used as an alternaitve therapy and those stories distress me as much as they do you).

There are certainly lot of bogus claims out there one has to beware of, but it is also possible that some of these used as adjunctive therapy do have real benefits.

Nelie


SCC(T2N0M0) part.glossectomy & neck dissect 2/9/05 & 2/25/05.33 IMRT(66 Gy),2 Cisplatin ended 06/03/05.Stage I breast cancer treated 2/05-11/05.Surgery to remove esophageal stricture 07/06, still having dilatations to keep esophagus open.Dysphagia. "When you're going through hell, keep going"
#53868 02-07-2007 06:58 AM
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Wayne --

Thanks for the clarification from the source (and how coincidental that you are being treated there!). Every bit of information is helpful.

I certainly didn't mean to sound as if I was endorsing DCA as a product that everyone should run out and take -- I just wanted to point out that the report appeared to have a more scientific underpinning (publication in a well-regarded peer-reviewed journal) than, say, the Internet claims about "miracle cures" from websites no one has ever heard of.

I understand your concern about such "miracle cures," as my mother briefly looked into goji juice for macular degeneration but decided against it (gosh, it cures cancer AND macular degeneration?!?!? -- sounds like that old "Saturday Night Live" commercial parody for the product that's a floor cleaner AND a dessert topping).

-- Leslie


Leslie

April 2006: Husband dx by dentist with leukoplakia on tongue. Oral surgeon's biopsy 4/28/06: Moderate dysplasia; pathology report warned of possible "skip effect." ENT's excisional biopsy (got it all) 5/31/06: SCC in situ/small bit superficially invasive. Early detection saves lives.
#53869 02-07-2007 08:38 AM
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Talbill Offline OP
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Folks, this thing went way farther than I would of ever guessed. I did some more research on the DCA and really did not like what I found. Although it is used now for other medical purposes I don't see it going anywhere. No matter what Paul Harvey said. I can sit back and look at this and see the needs, fears, and wants not only in my situation, but others too. This disease really sucks and reaching like this does not help in keeping the mind set where it needs to be.


Bill B. Dx 10-16-06 Stage 4 T2N2bM0 SCC Left Tonsil,3 nodes. 1st tx 11-28-06, last tx 1-8-07. 3x Cisplatlin, 5fu pump, and Doxetaxel. Modified neck dissection,20 Nodes removed, all clear 02-21-07. HPV+,33 IMRT start 3-22-07 70GY,Completed 05-04-07 smile
#53870 02-07-2007 12:49 PM
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Bill,
no one here is questioning your motives for starting the thread and the responses are precisely the reason I moved it to the adjunctive treatment topic. And after all there are instances where rather simple medications have found new and efficacious uses like aspirin for heart patients.

The dark side is there are many snake oil salesmen out there wanting to bilk cancer patients. I have quackwatch bookmarked and always check there. 90% of the time the stuff is already there (DCA is not, by the way). You may wish to refer to this link about alternative cancer cures in general and you will see why this can be a very emotional issue with many people http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html

We created this topic so that persons seeking information would hopefully treat these alternative treatments adjunctively(if at all) and not substitute them for known, efficacious medical treatment. Many have lost their lives seeking an easier way out (rather than radiation for instance)only to find that the time that they wasted before getting into legitimate treatment brought their disease to an untreatable and terminal state.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
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