Anyone have any info on veggie diets that are supposed to help build one's immune system and in turn fight off cancer. Diet with no meats, no breads, no sugar, mostly just veggies? Have heard of a few different ones (Halleleuh diet is one of them). Just wondered if anyone has any info or thoughts on the subject.

Thanks!
Debbie

Hi Debbie
I've been a veggie for 8 years.. but will admit to bread and sugar not being exclued.. understand lots of soya products are supposed to help.. have to say hasn't worked for me though..lol...
love and hugs
Helen

Debbie,

I tried that for awhile (3 weeks) but it was entirely too difficult with my circumstances. If you can eat and chew properly then it might be okay. The juicing I did make me sick. I had enough throwing up during my pregnancies to last a lifetime so I gave up. There's not much evidence that proves the diet to be successful with cancer prevention. I have been taking B12 supplements and that has helped me out. I have a couple of friends that are really into juicing and enemas with coffee and the whole cancer battle plan, but it doesn't appeal to me at all. I found that I spent all day cleaning equipment and cutting up veggies rather than spending time with my kids. Dan's problem may be not enough activity. Bodies in motion tend to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest. I had to force myself to get out and do some things. It really helped my energy level and attitude.

Talk to you soon!
Lynn

An excellent book on the subject is "Beating Cancer With Nutrition" by Patrick Quillin. You can find it at Amazon.com by clicking on the Oral Cancer Foundation home page then the Amazon.com link. Search by title.

OCF BOOKS PAGE

Remember to use the Amazon link from OCF every time you go there. OCF gets a reward from Amazon for every purchase made there!

Be aware that "Beating Cancer With Nutrition" (Michael Quillin, PhD, Rd, 1994) is on the "Nonrecommended Books" list at Quackwatch.

http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html

Well now QUACK WATCH will be on my qwackpot list. I now have reservations about their motives. I was curious and surprised to see that Gary, especially that it is on the list but with no reasons given. Also the 1994 edition of the book is a much older version I didn't read.

The fundamental information about nutrition contained in the book is very well done. I would challenge any one to refute the accuracy. The only thing some people might have a problem with is his suggestion of eating no added sugar, and his opinion (based on his observations) of the effect of high blood sugar and cancer. If that is the reason Quack watch listed it then they need to read the entire book! To the rest of you take a look at the book in the book store (so you don't have to buy it) and let me know what you thought.

When I discussed the book with a relative whom is also an ongcologist, he was familiar with the book and felt the nutrition information was very good. He didn't sign on to the sugar thing.

Hey I'm just the messenger! Why not email Dr. Barrett and ask him yourself
Email: [email protected]

My concern was that the way post was written it looks as if it's on the OCF recommended book list.

Conversely Quackwatch is the OCF reference list:
Quackwatch, Inc.
http://www.quackwatch.org

Quackwatch, Inc., a member of Consumer Federation of America, is a nonprofit corporation whose purpose is to combat health-related frauds, myths, fads, and fallacies. Its primary focus is on quackery-related information that is difficult or impossible to get elsewhere. Founded by Dr. Stephen Barrett in 1969 as the Lehigh Valley Committee Against Health Fraud, it was incorporated in 1970. In 1997, it assumed its current name and began developing a worldwide network of volunteers and expert advisors.

Gary, I do not mind that you pointed the fact out.
My surprise is that it was there on Quackwatch.

When I re-read my origional post I guess I don't see how anyone might think it is a book offered by or "approved" by OCF.

The next time I suggest a book I'll NOT use the OCF Amazon link just so there is no possible confusion. OCF will of course loose the small value that the link returns from Amazon, However it is a small price to pay for perfect clarity.

P.S. I am glad this was moved to the "Ajunctive" section

I just read through these posts, and I think the debate here is what I've found most frustrating of all... On the one hand, you've got folks promoting what I think is sound nutrutional information that makes sense for the most part. On the other hand, you have folks calling it a bunch of quackery. The nutritionist we talked to at MD Anderson fell in the latter part. We called her a "hardcore traditionalist" after talking with her for more than an hour.

At the same point, there aren't the indepth studies out there that show taking Vitamin X and Supplement Y will definitively help you in the battle against cancer. It's all very frustrating and confusing. The more I read and study, the more lost I seem to be...

Eric, this is pretty ironic, just saw a combination of "Dateline" segments about the Atkins Diet, pros and con's. Understand carb's are now the enemy, but a few years ago back the were the base of the "Food Pyramid." And red meat is touted as not all as bad is it was put up to be. But around here there's a caution that too much fish unhealty because of chemicals, and if farm raised there's too much antibiotics in the fish.

AAARRGGGHHHH.....

And the diet here is mostly rice and noodles, with meat, veggies and such to give taste to the rice and noodles. And not a whole lot of obese people here despite the food being high in carbohydrates.

Now the sugar thing leads me to this question. If sugars and glucose isn't a factor in tumor growth, then how is it that PET scans work on the basis that cancer cells metabolize sugars at a higher activity level, so show up on the PET scan, if I have this right. The hospital has me avoid all sorts of foods with natural sugars in them the night before a scan.

Remeber the old Woody Allen movie "Sleeper?" The scene where after he comes back from being frozen for 100 years they feed him a Snickers bar, and mention that all the studies were wrong, that it's now health food?

PET scans work on the premise that a radioisotope marker is attached to the glucose molecules (via exposure of a bag of glucose in a cyclotron an hour or so prior to infusion).

It is then infused into the body by IV where subsequently the uptake of sugars are accelerated and concentrated by tumor activity (or sometimes erroneously by healing activity).

The scanner itself detects the concentration of the radioisotope (harmless by the way, with a very short half life) and converts this data into a film or digital image.

Introduction of excess sugar to the body prior to a PET scan may result in an erroneous reading by diluting the "marked" glucose molecules.

This could result in a concentration being below the threshold of detection resulting in a possible false negative result.

Gary, Thanks for the info. I apparently mistakenly though it was the other way around, excess sugar resulting in false positive.

Learn something new every day.
Bob

I think your observation is still valid Bob, sugar is taken up more readily by the cancer cells than the normal tissues.

At the risk of another roundy-round, the subject of sugar is rather simple to me: There is no reason I can find to purposely maintain a higher than normal blood sugar level. Refined sugar was nearly absent from our early ancestors and they did just fine. Current day cultures that eat similar simple diets exhibit lower rates of several types of cancers. If there is even a small chance that elevated blood sugar levels help cancer to survive or thrive then why eat more sugar?

With regard to Vegetarian diets, most competant nutritionists would tell you that vegetarian diets are generally more healthy. Where I differ is I see a significant need for very high protein intake because of the massive tissue repair going on during radiation treatments. Vegetarian diets are usually not high protein. In addition, many essential fats are also important.

Colored fruits and plant materials are also a rich supply of many many nutrients, vitamins and minerals. Certainly boosting the supply of every kind of nutrient would be beneficial during the treatment procedures we go through. Plant fiber is one of the best ways to deal with constipation. I won't go on and on.

I was easily able to eliminate most "added" sugar from my diet and suffered no ill effects from doing so.

Lastly, Eric My experience with hospital nutritionists is similar to what you have described. Mostly they are concerned with calories and hydration. They didn't seem to care at all about how you get the calories or much else. My grand "conspiricy" theory is that there are few "official" studies about nutritional adjuncts and cancer because there is no money to be made by doing the studies.

Well said, Mark... makes a lot of sense to me... My wife and I have had this sugar debate a lot, and your explanation makes sense -- we don't really need all that refined sugar anyway, and I was getting tons by drinking 3-6 Cokes a day (or more) before my diagnosis... I'm a water and juice man now (homemade veggie and fruit juices not storebought ones with lots of added sugar)

I haven't gone total veggie, for reasons you mentioned above (plus I do want to keep calories up), but we are definitely spending a lot of time in the produce aisle. We spent more than an hour shopping for fruits and veggies tonight, and I was actually excited about eating all of the fresh things we bought... it just feels good to eat well...

I read somewhere that 1 can of coke has 28 teaspoons of sugar. I basically agree with Mark in his feelings towards refined sugars and such. My dietary patterns pretty much mirror his. My meat consumption is about 80% less then it once was. I actually feel pretty darned good these days (considering how beat up I was) with the new diet. My wife has an interesting way of putting it - fruits, nuts, grains and vegetables are all living things, not "dead" like meat (for instance).

My diet, too, has changed considerably. I probably don't eat red meat once a month, but fish and seafood are another matter. Particularly fish I catch in unpolluted waters and eat within a couple of hours. Picked up a copy of the official State fishing regs this week and was amazed at how few unpolluted waters remain. But that's another story. My sugar consumption is way down too, and I sure am glad that chocolate is a vegetable (grin). I cook many kinds of beans, and generally have a pot of homemade, multi-vegetable soup in the fridge. I miss what I used to eat and drink and once in a while in my younger days smoke, but that was then, and this is now. Have some large and beautiful sweet peppers nearly ready to harvest. My grandparents lived very long and healthy lives, eating meat and gravy and potatoes and dessert every single night, but they worked hard physically and there were a whole lot fewer chemicals in the food, water, and air back then. So we adapt. Last week I had a small chocolate milkshake and felt guilty for a couple of days, then I decided that if one milkshake is going to do me in, so be it. Some things can be taken too seriously, too far. Now goodnight.

The current hot subject (although not related to cancer) is the impact High Fructose Corn Syrup is having. I believe the heavily sweetened soda's should be avoided altogether. A search on the internet yields many interesting reports and ongoing research. This one by the San Francisco Chronical covers the subject nicely. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24VKMH1.DTL

Joanna, I too will confess a chocolate weakness (was not helped by going to Belgium and getting a taste of real fine chocolate) You'll be happy to know the average size milk chocolate bar has less than 1/2 the sugar as a can of soda pop!

Must have been on a sugar high to get a double post.....

Thanks, Mark. I believe dark chocolate, my vegetable of choice, which is supposed to have some health benefit, has even less sugar. Having foresaken the red wine which is also touted as being healthful, I feel it is in my best interest to have a reasonable amount of dark chocolate (grin). Interesting article.

Mark,

I agree with your assessment of refined sugars. There is nothing good to come from them. Childhood diabetes has run rampant in our culture of sweets and pop. I used to believe the unrefined sugars (i.e. brown sugar, turbinado, honey, etc.) were not as bad but in the case of diabetes, the only sugar that is acceptable is fruit.

For protein, tofu is one vegetable that has a considerable amount. Soy protein is not the best for people with liver issues, though. Tofu comes in many forms and can be substituted for yogurt in smoothies even.

Ed

Good point about the protein from soy Ed, I tend to believe that my tissue is more similar to cow than soy plants. Therefore I allow myself to eat prime rib for protein. Beans of all kind usually provide pretty high protein, but rare beef must be like 95%?

Gary, I liked your "dead" food comment. A quote from "that book" I mentioned earlier in this thread is:

"If it dosen't rot or sprout, throw it out!"

It is a reference to the "foods" that will keep in th fridge for months without spoiling. There is something unnatural about that. (preservatives)

Mark,

I have worked in the meat industry for over twenty years. The only thing better than a nice ribeye on the grill is a nice rare cut of properly cooked prime rib. I am salivating as we speak!

I do try to eat healthy other than my weakness for ribeye. It really helped me gain weight and get my red blood back in line. Once my cholesterol went from 130 to 170 I started tapering off, though. I ate squid a couple of days before my last blood tests and I now know I should not do that for 3 days before the test.

Got to go...eat now! Just a few leftovers...Spanish style paella with sausage, chicken, artichokes, pork, rice, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers...

Ed

And a glass of red wine to wash it down, Ed?
Helen

At least you can identify what you ate. Just had lunch in the factory lunchroom. Not too sure what any of it was - some was green, some brown, some white, some spicy. Asked what it was, was told "don't worry, good for the man"

-Just point at the picture and go "wo yao" (I want)-

Bob

Bob, you make me laugh... I spent a couple of summers at a school in SW China and remember well going through the food lines and wondering what exactly I was getting...

I did notice that the Chinese students ate a LOT more volume than we Americans, yet we were the "fat" ones... something to do with our penchant for candy and sodas I guess...

Debbie

Try the Gawler Foudation, www.gawler.org, for a book "Recipe for life" Dorothy Edgerow. Fantastic vegetarian recipes with an eye to the person with cancer. I did a residential course at Gawlers and the chef cooks around the book for her meals... as good as food gets. Lots of variation, mostly organic but you do have to like vegetables. (and 70% cocoa chocolate!)

kem

I've been a vegatarian for over 20 years. It didn't stop me from getting cancer, but my DRs hace thus far been amazed at both my high tolerance to treatments and my massive response. I'm at MGH in Boston, where they see lots and lots of people, and they say I have been the best they have seen on both accounts. I'd like to believe my diet and resulting overall health have a lot to do with this. And while some of my friends have suggested I introduce some meat and fish back into my diet for added protein and fats, well I refuse to believe that adding artery-clogging meats and cheese, mercury-filled fish and hormone-infused poultry back into my diet would somehow make me healthier. I would consider some of your positive points about meat in the above posts if the industry produced healthy wholesome products, but since they mostly feed their cattle and birds fillers, antibiotics and cement, well...I'll stick to my vegi diet, which has more than enough protein and nutrition to keep me smiling through this whole ordeal so far.

BTW: organic dark chocolate is actually extremely healthy and full of antioxidants... so, eat up!

-dave

What interesting posts- I had not seen these before. The only problem I now have is it's 10 pm and I want a grilled ribeye. Amy

Please note tht because of the controversy, that "Beating Cancer With Nutrition" is not one of our selections on the OCF page. I have some respect for the people at Quackwatch, and while I have NOT taken a good look at this book, we decided based on their comments to leave it off our list. Clearly we just have a few token books here for people to get a taste of what's available at Amazon though our link. Amazon sells it all, credible and otherwise. Where this particular book falls, I can not judge. We just want people to review the hundreds of cancer selections that Amazon has to offer, and find usable information or inspiration there. And we like to make our 3% commission when you go there through our link as well...the wolf is always at our door.

Hey,

I've found lots of articles that eatting specific fruits and veggies help to build stronger immune system... like deep green, yellow and orange vegetables (carrots, spinach, sweet potatoes, apricots, muskmelons, tomatoes, watermelons, etc)

My mom used to be a vegetarian, but started eatting meat and fish to help her with her low iron (instead of popin pills)

Thanks
H