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#51481 04-08-2006 08:54 PM
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didier Offline OP
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Hi,

Its been about a year and a half since my dad died and I really thought I was moving on with life fairly well. However, lately I dream about his death two to three times a week. It's as if I'm reliving the whole experience. I know this isn't going to sound very manly, but I wake up crying in the middle of the night. It's similar to the grief that I was experiencing right after his death. In addition, I'm dealing with insomnia again, and when I do fall asleep there's a 50-50 chance that I'll have these dreams. I had taken advantage of grief counseling, but I don't know that talking about it any further is going to help. Honestly, I'm tired of talking about it and thinking about. It was a a slow motion real life helplessness that I do not care to relive. My wife suggested I talk w/someon, but it is what it is. There's nothing I can change about the turn of events. Missing someone is a natural emotion and I thought I had come to terms with the reality of his death. I just wonder if anyone else has experienced this type of reprise of emotions, and if there's anything they did that may have helped. I had gotten rid of the occasional use of valium, xanax and ambien, but now I'm finding I need ambien again if I want to help ensure a night of sleep without having these dreams. I don't want to have to rely on that type of crutch though. Am I being closed minded by not wanting to talk w/someone? I hope it's just a matter of time before things get better emotionally, and they have...it's just out of what seems like nowhere that I'm going through more grieving...and it's kind of intense. I'm not a religious person, and I don't look at things and think that everything happens for a reason or per God's plan - so I'm not a candidate for spiritual counseling. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd sure be interested in hearing them. Thanks.
I hate ending things on downbeat. On a positive note, I'm planning on doing some volunteer work where my mom gets her treatment. Hopefully I can bring something to the table that may help someone going through treatment, or a family member of someone going through treatment. Wish me luck.


Mom's caregvr. DDS failed to dx 01/03. Dx Stg IV SCC 05/03. Induct. chemo, IMRT, 5FU, H, Iressa, Neck disect, radiation. Dad's caregvr. Dx 01/04 Ext. Stg SCLC. Mets to liver/bone 08/04. Died 11/12/04. Mom tongue CA dx 06/13, hemiglossectomy (80% removed) 08/13. Clean margins and nodes, but PNI. 6/15/15: Tongue CA at base of remnant tongue. Declined further tx; hospice.
Died 10/13/15. What a long and difficult journey.
#51482 04-08-2006 09:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
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Hi Didier,
Expressing your feelings is very manly - forget what everybody told you in childhhod - it was a lie.

The grieving process differs with everyone, as much as response to treatment does. It can take years to finally get to the last stage of acceptance. I still think a lot about my parents who passed away 20 and 10 years ago. You never really get over it - there's always going to be a hole there. For years I would reach for the phone to ask my Dad a question about carpentry or something. I have a mentor now who is 80 (duly appointed by my Dad 10 years ago and now I mentor others). Grief is a very personal and lonely process. Venting is a healthy way to deal with it as you are doing here. Your wife's idea about talking to someone, again, wouldn't hurt either. I always feel better once I put things on the table.

I know all about insomnia and sleep disorder - that's why I'm writing this at 1:30 am PDT. I've tried Ambien, Valium, etc. and it doesn't really seem to help much on a long term basis, besides they say the quality of sleep deteriorates with age. Former President Clinton once stated that he only slept 5-6 hours a night (of course that could have been to spend more time in the Green room with Monica ;-)

Volunteer work will be a great outlet for you and is a terrific idea. Giving back in such a way will give you untold benefits and personal healing. You should share your experience, strength and hope in cancer survivor support groups and let people need know it's alright to express their feelings about their losses and that they are not alone.

Sometimes it helps to make a written "gratitude list" of all the things you are grateful for to balance out all of the things that hurt.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#51483 04-09-2006 01:59 PM
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Didier,

I'm so sorry you're missing your father this way. I can't imagine. I've been very fortunate to be almost 45 years old and I haven't lost anyone very close to me yet. My Grandparents are still alive. I think talking about it is the best thing, feel free to share it with all of us. Gary, as usual, gives great advice. Hey Gary, from one insomniac to another, I only sleep about 5-6 hours a night.........many times only 4.............and NO, I am not secretly meeting up with Bill!!


SCC Left Mandible. Jaw replaced with bone from leg. Neck disection, 37 radiation treatments. Recurrence 8-28-07, stage 2, tongue. One third of tongue removed 10-4-07. 5-23-08 chemo started for tumor behind swallowing passage, Our good friend and much loved OCF member Minnie has been lost to the disease (RIP 10-29-08). We will all miss her greatly.
#51484 04-09-2006 02:39 PM
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I am constantly impressed by Gary's postings. His depth of understanding of many things from the highly technical to the emotional is significant. As to the inability to sleep, I too can relate. I am constantly on a variety of drugs, Ambien and various diazepams to try and get a full night's sleep, but while their impact is there, a full night's sleep never is. Some of this is anxiety related, some of it is related to bathroom visits related to the drinking and xerostomia, some of it is because I just can't shut off the thought process. I will wake at 3AM and my mind will start chewing on a paper or lecture that I have to give in the near future, or to thinking about friends and their cancer issues...which inevitably leads to thoughts of my own medical issues, and anxiety, and it's a vicious circle. I do see someone professionally to try and sort it all out, and of course prescribe the Rx's that I take. I have found that even though I am somewhat able to "reason through" some of this, other parts of it still touch a part inside me that cascades into anxiety. I do miss the tough guy that I used to be, the guy that got through the horrors of the Vietnam experience and so much more. He has been replaced by someone that is aware of the finite nature of my life, and the knowledge that while I can make good decisions about how to approach my future, I cannot with any certainty control it.

Grief takes many different forms. Besides the loss of loved ones, there is grief related to other losses in cancer patients, such as loss of the self that existed mentally or physically before the cancer process. Coping with in in any of its forms is always a process of self discovery.


Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
#51485 04-09-2006 02:49 PM
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Didier, I lost my Mom about 8 years ago. To this day, when I use something that belonged to her, I tend to get misty eyed [a recipe in her handwriting does it to me all the time]. I think that if you have had a good relationship with your parents, it is extremely hard to lose them. My best suggestion is to remember and savor every good moment you can when the sadness hits. And reread Gary's post often. Amy


CGtoJohn:SCC Flr of Mouth.Dx 3\05. Surg.4\05.T3NOMO.IMRTx30. Recur Dx 1\06.Surg 2\06. Chemo: 4 Cycles of Carbo\Taxol:on Erbitux for 7 mo. Lost our battle 2-23-07- But not the will to fight this disease

:
#51486 04-09-2006 03:53 PM
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Didier,

I lost my father when I was young and all these years later I too can sometimes have waves of days when I dream about/think about him and feel sad about losing him.

One of my favourite aunts died suddenly when I was in my twenties ( about 20 years ago!) and that still unexpectedly comes to the fore and hurts sometimes as does the death of a friend about 15 years ago.

I guess I'm saying all this because I believe that firstly, as others have said, the loss of someone you truly love never completely goes away and, secondly, I think accepting in some way a heavy sad loss and getting on with your everyday emotional life takes as long as it takes. You may also naturally have some thoughts about your Mom and her cancer and those strong feelings may also be mixed in there with the sadness you are feeling.

It's only my opinion - hope I'm not saying too much - but I think you shouldn't be pushing yourself too hard to feel differently than you do- be kind to yourself. 18 months is not really that long.

Mary


Caregiver for John SCC left tonsil Stage III/IV dx Sept 05, tx started Oct 21/05 -IMRT 35, cisplatin 3 X 100mg/m2;completed Dec08/05.
#51487 04-10-2006 07:14 AM
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The Native Americans advice on dreams is to practice while awake what you want to say and do in such a situation. When this dream occurs again you will be able to bring it to a better conclusion because you have prepared yourself. If this dream still remains disturbing without you being able to influence the outcome, immediately upon awakening go the window and look outside. All memory of the dream events will be extinguished.

Both techniques have worked for me. In the 70


Dig.7/03 3cm+ lymph nodes & base of tongue tumor. Radical neck dissection w/removal of one neck muscle, laser removal of tumor. 47 sessions of radiation, 2 doses of Cisplatin & PEG tube 40yrs old non-smoker/drinker
#51488 04-12-2006 05:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 235
didier Offline OP
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate everything you've said and suggested. Gary, Brian is absolutely right about you. You're really something. I too have found myself reaching for the phone to ask my dad a question, and then the reality sets in.
Geez, I'm tearing up as I type this. Anyhow, I can't thank all of you guys enough for your help over the years. I'm really lucky to have you in my life.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Dave


Mom's caregvr. DDS failed to dx 01/03. Dx Stg IV SCC 05/03. Induct. chemo, IMRT, 5FU, H, Iressa, Neck disect, radiation. Dad's caregvr. Dx 01/04 Ext. Stg SCLC. Mets to liver/bone 08/04. Died 11/12/04. Mom tongue CA dx 06/13, hemiglossectomy (80% removed) 08/13. Clean margins and nodes, but PNI. 6/15/15: Tongue CA at base of remnant tongue. Declined further tx; hospice.
Died 10/13/15. What a long and difficult journey.
#51489 04-20-2006 07:46 PM
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Posts: 235
didier Offline OP
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Aaaaah, another one of those nights. 1:24 AM, just reran the last days of my dad's life through my head...and I'm feeling guilty. WTF. I don't know if I ever said this on the forum before, but I guess maybe this is what's bugging me. My father's final words to me were "don't you ever come near me, I'll kill you." He was pissed that I took him to the hospital. He wanted to die at home. The problem was, he kind of lived in squalor, he was at a point where he was incontinent, couldn't walk, was halucinating.
I was burning the candle at both ends and really needed to take advantage of the respite care that hospice offered. Hell, as I've mentioned before, I had to take xanax, valium and ambien just to try to get some sleep. I'd occasionaly slip in an oxycontin to help take the edge off the stress that had built up in my lower back that had brought me to a point where walking became something of a challenge for me. Shit. Perhaps my guilt is making me nuts about this. I'm upset that his goodbye was what it was. I think the lightbulb is finally going on. I guess I do have some issues about this. I had really hoped that there would have been some other words before he died, but he was so agitated at the hospital that they gave him something that put him to sleep and he slept through his death. I suppose that's not a bad thing, I just wish he wouldn't have been so angry when he wasn't medicated and we could have talked. It's odd. He was angry at my sister too. During his final week, he didn't even want her around. He was fine w/me until I took him to the hospital. I didn't know what else to do. He was rolled up in a ball, naked on the bathroom floor. I can't tell you how difficult that was to see and how inhumane it was in my mind to let him stay at home where I believe his condition was better served in a comprehensice medical center. Here I am, reliving this shit again. Damn. It would have been his birthday this coming Sunday, that's been on my mind too. I'm apparently still a little raw so that date and the anniversary date of his death are a little tough for me. 1:44 AM, full of emotion. This sucks.
Try to sleep it off. Goodnight.


Mom's caregvr. DDS failed to dx 01/03. Dx Stg IV SCC 05/03. Induct. chemo, IMRT, 5FU, H, Iressa, Neck disect, radiation. Dad's caregvr. Dx 01/04 Ext. Stg SCLC. Mets to liver/bone 08/04. Died 11/12/04. Mom tongue CA dx 06/13, hemiglossectomy (80% removed) 08/13. Clean margins and nodes, but PNI. 6/15/15: Tongue CA at base of remnant tongue. Declined further tx; hospice.
Died 10/13/15. What a long and difficult journey.
#51490 04-21-2006 05:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Is he from the Depression era? My Dad was, he died from lung cancer when I was 16. He apparently was hiding his health problems & collapsed at work. OMG he was soooo angry at being helped. After treatments at the hospital he stayed home for about 2weeks during Thanksgiving. The hostile expression on his face was terrifying. Again hiding his pain Mom realized he was getting worse and had to call an ambulance to get him back the hospital. I was at school for that, but she was emotional wrung out saying how furious he was being taken that way. He was peacefully med


Dig.7/03 3cm+ lymph nodes & base of tongue tumor. Radical neck dissection w/removal of one neck muscle, laser removal of tumor. 47 sessions of radiation, 2 doses of Cisplatin & PEG tube 40yrs old non-smoker/drinker
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