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#28187 08-08-2006 05:32 AM
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Hi everyone, my name is Amanda and I've had a rather stessful summer so far. For some background info: I first noticed a lump to the right of my windpipe on June 16 and later went to the doctor's about it. He prescribed antibiotics and sent me home. Those did not help, and I actually developed another lump to the left of my windpipe (although it's not as hard as the one on the right). So he left my diagnosis for the time being as adenopathy of the anterior cervical lymph nodes. However, I did have a CBC done and an infection was indicated both times (both before and after the antibiotics were administered). So then he decided to send me to an oral surgeon to see if there was a chronic infection in my mouth somewhere that would cause them to swell up (especially since my blood count did look better after the treatment of antibiotics). That particular appointment was yesterday morning, and I was panicking at that point because I noticed about a week ago that I have a...well, lump may not be the best term...but something, in any case, on the floor of my mouth on the right side. I can feel a little bump with my tongue but when I feel with my finger it's like a squishy piece of skin. When I examined this area further and compared it to the other side of my mouth, it seems like I have what feels like a wet sponge or something on the floor of my mouth. It's squishy, not exactly hard, and isn't white or red (looks the same as the other side, except the back appears to be a bit more raised up). And although the oral surgeon said my mouth was perfect and normal, he seemed rushed and I don't know if it really is normal or something is wrong. He did find an impacted wisdom tooth on the bottom right that needs to come out eventually (I only just turned 19 in May, which is making this more stressful for me), but apparently he thinks the rest of my mouth is normal. And now I have an appointment at the end of the month with a hematologist because for some reason my doctor is convinced that if this isn't an infection and is cancer, it's going to be a lymphoma of some sort. So, I'd like to ask a few questions about my situation and your situations as well.

Did anyone diagnosed with oral cancer have no other symptoms other than an invisible lump in the mouth and/or swollen lymph nodes? Am I being too paranoid about this since I am a 19-year-old non-smoker and non-drinker (never have once and never will) with absolutely no chance of having HPV? Could an impacted wisdom tooth on one side of the mouth cause hard, painless, swollen lymph nodes on both sides of the neck? I am just so worried about this, especially since I'm moving back into my dorm in a few weeks and I would much rather be worrying about organic chemistry than cancer. I think what worries me the most other than what I think is a lump in my mouth combined with the swollen lymph nodes is that the area near the lymph nodes feels odd. Where I can feel my windpipe on one side, the other seems to have the lymph node flattening out and extending onto it and after reasearching online, I'm just afraid that this could be cancer from my mouth making its way down into my neck.


~ Amanda
#28188 08-08-2006 07:29 AM
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Amanda,
for most of us, the cancer was asymptomatic - there was was pain at all. Only a slight horseness and maybe a feeling of something stuck in the throat. I would be encouraged by your bloodwork. My CBC and WBC was completely normal in the the 2 pre Dx tests that I had. It it normal for lymph nodes to swell up when they are busy fighting infection. We a have a general rule that if you don't respond to antibiotics within 2 weeks then you should see an ENT or Head & Neck surgeon. There are exceptions to this rule, 2 of them are possibly a peritonsillar abcess or a crack in a tooth root. These conditions can take months of antibiotics to treat. In the case of a crack in the root of a tooth, the treatment will only be temporary. Impacted wisdom teeth can cause a lot of problems as well and they should removed by an oral surgeon. You are at the perfect age for this.

When the fear level gets up there you will be looking at parts of your anatomy that you have probably never even been aware of. I actually though a normal salivary gland was a new tumor - My H&N surgeon and I had a good laugh over that one (AFTER the fact of course). I wasn't laughing while I was waiting to find out however.

Statistically, your odds of contracting oral cancer, at your age, are very low. You are being a little paranoid but caution and early detection are never a bad thing. Regular doctors, like GP's, oral surgeons and dentists are not the best qualified to rule anything out. The head & neck is a complex area of the body and you should get a referal to a specialist for your own piece of mind.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
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"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28189 08-20-2006 09:25 AM
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Thanks for the advice. My dad actually took me to a different doctor for a second opinion and my blood work came back completely normal this time, so he gave me a referral to an ENT (who I will be seeing on Thursday). Apparently when my mom made the appointment, a fine needle aspiration was mentioned. If something does happen to be wrong with me, is this a good way to get diagnosed? Thanks again.


~ Amanda
#28190 08-20-2006 12:24 PM
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Amanda,
an FNA would be the beginning. There many tests and scans ahead if they really suspect cancer.
If it is lymphoma, as you mentioned in your original post, that's pretty treatable with a relatively mild form of chemotherapy.

None of us had "invisible lumps", they were usually in the neck area and quite palpable. Typically more than 1 cm (1/2 inch) in diameter. This refering to enlarged nodes. The actual tumor I had was slightly larger than a golf ball.

You are wise to see an ENT and find out for certain, but we don't see many 19 year olds here - so think positive and don't let fear drive you crazy in the meantime.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28191 08-21-2006 03:21 AM
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What I meant by "invisible lump" is that although there is a big, squishy lump on the floor of my mouth, I can only feel it, not see anything noticeably different in my mouth when I look. Sorry about not being clear. And I do have one large lymph node in the left side of my neck as well as one slightly smaller in the right side of my neck. Plus I've noticed three small red bumps to the left of my left tonsil, but they came up within a matter of days, so I hope they're nothing to be concerned about. I think what bothers me the most is that I don't have any symptoms besides these lumps. I don't have ear pain or the feeling of something stuck in my throat, and I haven't been hoarse at all. There's just these lumps that won't go away. If you wouldn't mind my asking, do you know how fast it typically spreads(since I have found the one lymph node in my neck in mid-June it feels only slightly bigger, but not drastically, and the lymph node in the left side of my neck popped up literally over night and doesn't appear to feel any bigger at all)? If there is something in my mouth and it has spread to the lymph nodes on both sides of my necks, wouldn't I be having some sort of symptoms by now? And for anyone that has had lymph node involvement, do they grow fairly rapidly or take months and months? I'm trying not to stress out before I see the ENT, but I'm still worried.


~ Amanda
#28192 08-21-2006 06:35 AM
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There is a large salivary gland under the tongue, in the floor of the mouth, that feels "squishy". I don't know how you can possibly "see" your tonsils as it requires special mirrors and techniques or a nasolaryngoscope that only an ENT can do. The tonsils reside in the far back of the throat sandwiched next to the side of the base of the tongue. Even dentists and hygenists cannot visualize that part of the throat. When they palpate that area on me (which requires placing a gloved finger all the way to the base of the tongue they are looking to feel something that is hard. Most oral cancers have been there for some time before thay are detected (in my case 2 years) it is unlikely that red bumps occuring suddenly would be cancerous. There are many things it could be besides cancer. Lymph nodes are supposed to swell up to fight infections and they will naturally become tender or painful. You need to take a deep breath and break the lock of fear that has settled upon you. It's been said many times here that "it ain't cancer until the pathology report says it is". It is well for you to definiteively determine the cause of your pain for your own peace of mind and an ENT or head & neck surgeon, with cancer experience, should be able to make a quick determination as to the cause.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
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"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28193 08-21-2006 09:28 AM
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Now I feel all embarrased. I always thought that the two little brain-like things to the right and left of the uvula were the tonsils. Sorry. =/

I'm really not all that worried about it, because I haven't had any pain at all and I tend to to associate bad things with pain (although that isn't always the case), but I just don't want to be nastily surprised if I go to the ENT and something does turn out to be wrong. But thank you so much for the info on the salivary gland. At least now I know that it's supposed to be there.


~ Amanda
#28194 08-21-2006 12:58 PM
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Hi Amanda,
Don't feel embarrassed as the objects you mentioned are indeed the tonsils. When our tonsils are infected or invaded by cancerous cells, they are often enlarged. The ENT may not be sure if there is the tumor in the tonsil or it is just tonsillite until he takes out some tissue for biopsy. In my case, I could see the swollen tonsils easily when I opened my mouth,as you describe, brain-like things.I had my left 'brain' much larger than the right one because my tumor was on the left. Of course for a healthy person, he won't notice where their tonsils are.

Karen


Karen stage 4B (T3N3M0)tonsil cancer diagnosed in 9/2001.Concurrent chemo-radiation treatment ( XRT x 48 /Cisplatin x 4) ended in 12/01. Have been in remission ever since.
#28195 08-21-2006 01:57 PM
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Amanda,

Don't feel embarrased. I can see the tonsils of many of my patients and others have some that are so small, that they cannot be seen.

I'm sure that you are looking at your tonsils if they look "Brain-like", as that is what tonsils look like.

Jerry


Jerry

Retired Dentist, 59 years old at diagnosis. SCC of the left lateral border of the tongue (Stage I). Partial glossectomy and 30 nodes removed, 4/6/05. Nodes all clear. No chemo no radiation 18 year survivor.

"Whatever doesn't kill me, makes me stronger"
#28196 08-21-2006 02:45 PM
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Actually Karen and Jerry are right so I'm the one who should be embarrassed! I keep forgetting that mine melted away during the radiation so they actually have to dig deep to find the original tumor bed for the followup exams. When my tumor got large enough I was able to easily visualize it - but it was a big tan rubbery thing, and not "brain-like".

I have to admit I never looked much in the back of my mouth before I got cancer.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
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"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28197 08-22-2006 12:05 AM
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Gary,

You, of all people, have no reason to feel embarrassed. Your wealth of information and your willingness to help others, have had such a positive impact on the members of this forum. I remember thinking when I first joined this forum, that nobody could know this much and spend so much time on this website and still have time to eat and sleep.

Somehow, you do it and we all continue to benefit from your expertise.

Thank you.

Jerry


Jerry

Retired Dentist, 59 years old at diagnosis. SCC of the left lateral border of the tongue (Stage I). Partial glossectomy and 30 nodes removed, 4/6/05. Nodes all clear. No chemo no radiation 18 year survivor.

"Whatever doesn't kill me, makes me stronger"
#28198 08-22-2006 05:05 AM
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I think that my tonsils must just be naturally enlarged then because I've always been able to see them just by opening my mouth and looking in the mirror. My ENT appointment is just two days away so I hope that he can shed some light on what is going on with my neck. I got so frustrated with my GP because he was only lightly feeling my neck to check for the swollen lymph nodes but there's more that I can feel than just that if I press a little harder. And I don't think that it's normal because it is currently only on the right side of my neck. I'm beginning to think I made a really huge mistake- back in like November of last year I was bored and had my head resting on my hands and I could feel this little flappy thing to the right of my windpipe. It was very small, so I ignored it and now that's where one of my lymph nodes are swollen. =(


~ Amanda
#28199 08-23-2006 01:51 AM
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I have one more quick question and then I'll quit ranting until my ENT appointment tomorrow: If this does happen to be something bad and has spread to the lymph nodes on both sides of my neck, shouldn't I be in some form of pain right now? There are two lymph nodes, one on each side of my neck, that are swollen and hard, and both have been there for over a month now. Is it a good sign that I haven't had any other symptoms at all except for swollen nodes?


~ Amanda
#28200 08-23-2006 09:01 AM
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In general, painless nodes are a bad sign. Cervical metastasis of oral cancers are a not good, and if you have fixated hard, painless nodes in your neck, I believe that you should ask him to FNB those nodes while you are right there in the office. One of the real dangers of oral cancers in general is that in its early stages it is mostly painless. I was a stage four patient when diagnosed, and I had no oral discomfort though I had a lesion on my right tonsil as big as a nickel. I went to the ENT after a node on my neck became enlarged and was painless and hard. If you have an infection draining into the cervical nodes from a tooth abscess, or an ear infection, those nodes hurt like hell. I could flick mine with my finger and didn't feel a thing. I wish that more doctors would realize that when a patient presents with painless swollen nodes the WRONG thing to do is get out the Rx pad and write a prescription for antibiotics. THE FIRST DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS FOR AN ENLARGED PAINLESS NECK NODE IS ORAL CANCER. That is what they should be eliminating from their list of possibilities FIRST. Too many people's diagnosis have been unnecessarily delayed while they gave patients antibiotics for a perceived, undetermined source infection. Infections produce painful nodes. Too many doctors who do not do a good job of differential diagnosis, do the lazy easy thing, Write an Rx for antibiotics when they are not even sure what is going on.


Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
#28201 08-24-2006 07:53 AM
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For those (like myself) who struggle with medical terms) Here are 2 pertinent definitions:

Differentiation: In cancer, refers to how mature (developed) the cancer cells are in a tumor. Differentiated tumor cells resemble normal cells and tend to grow and spread at a slower rate than undifferentiated or poorly differentiated tumor cells, which lack the structure and function of normal cells and grow uncontrollably.
(source NCI cancer definitions) Bear in mind that the above definition would a resultant part of the differential diagnosis. Even though both of these terms have similar roots, they have very different meanings in a medical context.

Differential Diagnosis: In medicine, differential diagnosis (sometimes abbreviated DDx or ΔΔ) is the systematic method physicians use to identify the disease causing a patient's symptoms.

Before a medical condition can be treated, it must be identified. The physician begins by observing the patient's symptoms, examining the patient, and often taking the patient's personal and family history. Then the physician lists the most likely causes. The physician asks questions and performs tests to eliminate possibilities until he or she is satisfied that the single most likely cause has been identified.

Once a working diagnosis is reached, the physician prescribes a therapy. If the patient's condition does not improve, the diagnosis must be reassessed.

The method of differential diagnosis was first suggested for use in the diagnosis of mental disorders by Emil Kraepelin. It is more systematic than the old-fashioned method of diagnosis by gestalt (impression).

The term differential diagnosis also refers to medical information specially organized to aid in diagnosis, particularly a list of the most common causes of a given symptom, annotated with advice on how to narrow down the list. For example, this differential diagnosis of sclerotic bone lesions lists nine common causes, including infection, trauma, and drugs.

Example
The patient presents with symptoms A and B. The physician creates a list of diseases that include symptoms A and B. There are three diseases that feature both symptoms:

Disease 1: A, B, C
Disease 2: A, B, C, D
Disease 3: A, B, E
The physician can test for the presence of symptom C. This would either support 1 and 2 or support 3. If the client tested positive for C, a test for D could be used to differentiate between disease 1 and 2. If the client tested negative for C, a test for E would confirm the diagnosis of disease 3.

In modern medicine, physicians typically decide to perform tests based on weighing the likelihood of a positive result against the severity of the disease if it were to remain undiagnosed. For example, if an 18 year old with no personal or family history of heart disease complains of chest pain, the physician is much less likely to be concerned that a heart attack occurred than if the patient were 65 years old.

(source Wikipedia)


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28202 08-25-2006 03:00 AM
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My ENT did not seem worried at all when I went to the appointment. He said that the enlarged lymph node was only 5 mm and even though it is slightly hard, it's mobile. So he prescribed a 5-day treatment of Ketex because he thinks that perhaps the last antibiotics weren't strong enough or my infection developed a resistance to it. My mother shared with him my fears of oral cancer (and other cancers in general) and he did feel around a lot for other swollen nodes, plus down my throat and everywhere around in my mouth (from what I looked up on the web, I think that was an oral cancer exam). He says he really doesn't think it's cancer, especially since I have acne and that might also be causing the swollen node (for which he prescribed a cream). I also had a 100.4 fever when I went, plus the previous CBCs also indicated an infection. So I do feel a little bit better, but I'll be going back in 2 months and if the nodes are still swollen, then he may request a biopsy (he said at this point it was too small to even get a tissue sample using FNA).


~ Amanda
#28203 08-25-2006 07:28 AM
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Amanda,
some conditions like peritonsillar abcess (PTA) can take months of antibiotics to cure. It just doen't feel like cancer to me but you are wise to get a definitive diagnosis. Cancer typically will not produce a fever or elevated WBC. The treatment can, but generally not the disease. I had bloodtests done as part of my differential diagnosis and my numbers were perfect. I also had no lymph node involvement at all. 5mm is pretty small, they can't detect regions of interest smaller then 2mm with scanning devices.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28204 08-26-2006 03:51 AM
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Umm, just for my own peace of mind, if this does turn out to be something other than an infection, is a two-month wait going to significantly alter my health?

Oh, and I forgot to mention before, the nurse practitioner that was checking for other swollen nodes said that she did find a bunch of "shotty nodes." Aren't these typically in response to an infection?


~ Amanda
#28205 08-27-2006 08:53 AM
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I love nurse practioners - they are so much more accessible than doctors but would I trust them over someone with 12 years of formal medical school training - not. But if you have been delegated to an NP then you probably have less to worry about. To answer your other question. Most of us are "followed" on 6-8 week intervals the first year, spacing out in successive years. My head & neck surgeon informs me that 2 months is enough time to deal with any issues, but consider that this time table is for post treatment patients.

With long term antibiotic therapy for a difficult to control infection, it may take 2 months to ascertain whether it's making a difference.

I do have to add a caution here for OTHERS reading this thread that we typically recommend that if you don't respond in 2 weeks to antibiotics then you need to see a specialist like an ENT or a head & neck surgeon (sorry if this is confusing to you Amanda).


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28206 08-28-2006 12:51 AM
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That's alright. I did actually see the ENT, but the NP saw me before he did. And the antibiotics he prescribed were only a 5-day supply. So now I'm getting very depressed. It seems like no one will take this seriously because I'm only 19.


~ Amanda
#28207 08-28-2006 01:56 AM
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Amanda,
Call him or the NP back and tell them your concerns. I'm not a doctor but I if used the "differential diagnosis" guidelines, I would be treating you for an infection also. You can always get an second opinion from another ENT. Try to find one with cancer experience and not one who spends all of his time sticking tubes in kids ears (not that yours does - but there are sub specialties within specialties). A comprehensive cancer center would be able to rule out cancer. I still don't think you have cancer but I have seen enough children at the CCC, while I was in treatment, to know that young people do get it. I have to admit though, I don't recall meeting any with oral cancer.

What makes you think that you have oral cancer? It could be something as simple as plain old tonsillitus. You need to give us more information if you want us to "second guess" what's going on. Like what kind of antibiotics? Maybe he switched you to a really powerful one? Like Cipro?

Have other close family members had cancer? Do people smoke in your household? Do you live next door to an oil refinery? At 19, you should be out enjoying your life and not worrying about cancer. Where does all of this fear about cancer come from?

"Second guess" is the best we can do over the internet. Our primary mission is actually to help survivors with post treatment issues, mainly by sharing our experiences. Secondary would be patient advocacy.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28208 08-28-2006 05:24 AM
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If it is cancer, I suspected oral cancer because whatever is in my neck seems to be growing down from right under the jaw down to in front of my windpipe. Plus the floor of my mouth on the right side feels more raised up than the left side. I'm most worried about cancer because I have had 6 doctor visits so far, all of whom think that this "might" be an infection. I have taken 30 erythromycin pills, and today am on my last dose of Ketek or telithromycin (a 10 pill supply with the front of the box reading 400 mg). The first set of pills did seem to lower my blood count a bit, but did not change the swollen nodes in my neck at all. This second set also has not made a difference. As to family members with cancer, my mother had cancer of the stomach lining (I think) and my grandfather had some type of throat cancer (although he developed it late in life and smoked for many years). I don't live next to an oil refinery, but both of my parents have been smoking my entire life. And I am so sorry to take anything at all away from those who are truly sick, but I've probably done the worst thing I can by researching online and finding that hard, swollen, painless lymph nodes are generally not a good sign, especially since I haven't been sick or had any other symptoms at all. And after 6 doctor visits with no definitive diagnosis, I'm starting to lose faith in them as well. So far I've encountered the standard approach: You're 19, this has to be an infection because we don't see that many people your age who do have cancer. But as Brian said, infectious nodes are supposed to hurt. Mine never have at any point during all of this. And I don't want to keep waiting and waiting for months if this isn't an infection, because I really don't think it is. I don't hurt and I'm not physically sick. And I typically never jump to conclusions- I hate visiting the doctors and I hate taking pills, but this has really gotten me shaken. And again, I'm so sorry to take away from patients on this board, but I am so depressed at hearing, "Well, this MIGHT be an infection, so we'll treat you for that." I just want a doctor to tell me the EXACT reason why this is going on, not a maybe or perhaps.


~ Amanda
#28209 08-28-2006 09:38 AM
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Amanda,
I have to agree with you. It isn't right that you should be put off for months. You don't need to apologize - you definitely have valid concerns and you are in the right place. You are a patient on this board. But what the doctors are telling is indeed factual, they don't see many patients presenting with oral cancer in your age group.

Many of us also had a couple of courses of antibiotics (to no effect) before we saw a specialist. Allow me to be more specific here, most us started with GP's or PCP's and went through several courses of antibiotics before even getting a referal to an ENT. The ENT that first looked at me Dx'd me, accurately, within 5 seconds, without a biopsy, strictly based on a visual exam - not even a scope.

I wasn't trying to be facetious when I inquired about your background, but it has to be part of your differential diagnosis. Environmental and genetic conditions have to be taken under consideration. Being exposed to second hand smoke all of your life is an additional risk factor but bear in mind that some here smoked all their life and still didn't develop cancer until their 50's.

We occasionally see other young people here who have also had multiple doctor/specialist visits and were found with nothing, yet were convinced they had cancer. We have also heard of a blown diagnosis when a doctor disallowed the possibility of cancer because of age and statistical profile. Medicine is more of an art than a science and process of elimination is the main diagnostic tool -it is the basis for "differential diagnosis". I have had isolated infections - even fistulas and I felt fine otherwise with no other symptoms.

I would present it as you did to me, that you have a history of cancer in your family and were exposed to second hand smoke all of your life and you are concerned about swollen nodes and no pain. Bear in mind though that swollen nodes would be more symptomatic of a primary (or an occult primary) somewhere else (unless you have lymphoma) besides a simple infection.

If it is lymphoma, blood tests and/or an FNA would reveal it.

Have you had a dental x-ray to rule out your wisdom teeth? You are the perfect age for an infection from impacted wisdom teeth.


Gary Allsebrook
***********************************
Dx 11/22/02, SCC, 6 x 3 cm Polypoid tumor, rt tonsil, Stage III/IVA, T3N0M0 G1/2
Tx 1/28/03 - 3/19/03, Cisplatin ct x2, IMRT, bilateral, with boost, x35(69.96Gy)
________________________________________________________
"You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14 NIV)
#28210 08-28-2006 12:05 PM
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The ENT actually does know about the previous cases of cancer in my family as well as my exposure to second hand smoke. And I do have one impacted wisdom tooth on my right side, but there is no pain from it and I have a swollen node on my left side so I figured that it wouldn't cause both sides to swell. Plus the oral surgeon said he couldn't find any signs of infection in my mouth. Honestly, if it was just a swollen node that I felt I would probably let this go. But the node feels like it extends out onto my windpipe. And I can feel a bunch of little lumps as well as one bigger bump where it feels like these smaller ones end (it's not the Adam's apple, though, it's a lot further above that), so after reading stuff online I think, "Uh oh, that could be extracapsular spread." And it really saddens me that my mother is convinced that absolutely nothing is wrong because the doctor simply felt the one node and said that he didn't "think" it was cancer. I just can't think of anything else that causes something like, especially since it has gradually gotten bigger since I first found it. And I hope that it does turn out to be something that isn't serious, because it seems like I'm going to have to wait those 2 months (because I'll have no transportation and it's practically impossible to get into see a specialist in Richmond).


~ Amanda
#28211 08-28-2006 02:00 PM
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Amanda,

I would not wait 2 months. If this is not gone in 2 weeks, please see someone else and demand that tests are done. I would take someone else with you as a witness and also tell them that you want a copy of your records at the end of the visit. I know this might sound silly, but maybe them being worried about getting sued if this is something might prompt them to take the actions that you are looking for right now. If necessary, go outside of Richmond. You can always go there for treatment if it is something, but you need to get in sooner than later.


DX on 05/01/06 with SCC of right tongue. 05/11/06 surgery-tumor 1.2cm & 4 cm clear margins & parital glos. & neck dissection with removal of 34 nodes/1 positive at 4mm)T1N1MO
35 IGRT & 3 cycles of chemo (1 cisplatin & 2 carbo-complete on 8/9/06.
#28212 08-28-2006 11:48 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I'm calling my ENT back today and telling him my concerns and that I think the one lymph node has actually gotten bigger since I started (and now finished) his set of antibiotics. And I'm going to my college's Student Health Services for another opinion, mainly because they are directly affiliated with MCV, which is a CCC that I live only 2 miles from on campus.


~ Amanda
#28213 08-30-2006 03:34 PM
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Just an update- I called my ENT to tell him I'd like to discuss some of my concerns and I'm still waiting to hear back from him. Plus I have an appointment with a hematologist scheduled for September 14, so maybe he can suggest something.

I hope everyone is doing well!


~ Amanda
#28214 09-15-2006 06:59 AM
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I just thought I'd update and say that I went to see the hematologist (who also happened to be an oncologist) yesterday. After feeling my lumps, he first remarked that they were not lymph nodes at all. He is pretty sure that they are cysts, and very small ones at that (according to him, they're 2 mm, if that), but he did schedule a CT scan for my own peace of mind. I feel kind of embarassed now, especially thinking that something was seriously wrong with me because I had hard lymph nodes that weren't going away, but if they are cysts then I guess they're supposed to feel that way. Thanks everyone for your support, though, and you are in my prayers every day.


~ Amanda
#28215 09-15-2006 10:05 AM
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Hi Amanda,

You never have to feel embarassed, especially here. It's always better to err on the side of caution and get checked out. Since my Aunt has had BOT SCC, I've been to the ENT myself after finding some red spots on the far far back of my tongue after I had the flu. I have a great ENT who is also a head and neck surgeon, so I made an appointment and saw him as soon as I could. The first thing he asked me was "you can see that far down your tongue?" Then I explained to him about my Aunt and that we examine our mouths now. He went the whole route, examined my mouth and throat, shoved a scope up my nose and down my throat and declared those red spots large taste buds. I was very very happy when he said "you're perfectly normal. Pretty, pink and normal." I did a similiar thing when I recovered from a bout of classic chest flu and I found a pliable jelly bean in my neck. Three doctors checked me out and my Endocrinologist (who knows what my neck feels like because I have thyroid disease) told me I had an inflammatory node and it would be gone or at least smaller in six months. Yup, much smaller in six months. It's always better to be cautious, but while you're being cautious, try not to make yourself sick with worry. I've done that to myself, and it doesn't help you get through it any better or any faster.


Niece to Aunt Ro- Dx: 4/03. SCC Stg 4 BOT with mets to fl of mth & crvcl lymph node. AdenoC 1 sal gland. Two add. reconstrc. surgeries for adhesions. Recurrence 7/06- Sub-Mand AdenoC. Mets to both lungs. Lost her battle 5/4/07.
#28216 09-15-2006 01:31 PM
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I am surprised that anyone would notice something that is only 2mm.... after all, that is about the size of a pencil lead. More than that, I do not belive that any doctor via palpation of a hard spot can tell you it is a cyst or whatever. Just how does he, through touch only, determine that it is a cyst? It is a good thing that you are getting scans to get a big picture view of everything.


Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
#28217 09-17-2006 03:59 PM
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Amanda,

I agree with Brian, I am not sure that anyone can feel something 2mm-did he say 2cm possiblly? Scans do not detect anything smaller than 6mm I believe, so I would be surprised if that is something that could be felt through touch.

Don't be embarassed if it is nothing. Anything that doesn't go away in a reasonable time frame should be checked out! That being said, if it doesn't go away after this, please follow-up and be persistant! Doctors often want to dismiss young people and oral cancer because it is rare-but it does happen!

Sarah


DX on 05/01/06 with SCC of right tongue. 05/11/06 surgery-tumor 1.2cm & 4 cm clear margins & parital glos. & neck dissection with removal of 34 nodes/1 positive at 4mm)T1N1MO
35 IGRT & 3 cycles of chemo (1 cisplatin & 2 carbo-complete on 8/9/06.
#28218 09-21-2006 04:42 AM
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Thank you for your advice, everyone. But it looks like at this point that if I do have cancer, it won't be oral cancer. The oncologist said he was pretty positive they were cysts or some other benign growth, but he's doing the CT scans just to be sure. But he said he was quite certain that my lumps are NOT lymph nodes because apparently there are no lymph nodes in the little areas that I do have lumps.


~ Amanda
#28219 09-22-2006 05:49 AM
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I am so sorry to continually nag this forum, especially considering that I haven't been diagnosed with anything bad yet (and I'm hoping I won't be), but I tend to be perfectly fine and happy after every doctor appointment because they say what I have isn't cancer, and then after a few days I fall back into depression. This is no way to live at any age, particularly 19, and I don't know how much more of it I can take (September 16 was my three-month mark from first finding a lump). I go for my CT scan this afternoon and then meet with the oncologist again on Monday, so hopefully I'll know what it is then, although a part of me doesn't really want to know what it is if it is cancer. I probably shouldn't have gone online and researched things in the first place, because then I find out that oral cancer is typically very aggressive in younger people (although I've been assured many times it isn't that, it's not like they've actually done any tests or biopsies yet). And I'm still afraid that the doctors aren't really taking me seriously because apparently cancer in the 15-19 year old age group is quite rare (I actually would have developed the first lump when I was 18, because I found it less than a month after my birthday) and is often lymphoma if it is. If an oncologist, who sees these things everyday, even in my age group, thinks it is nothing to be concerned about, should I still worry so obsessively? He sounded very sure that the lumps in my neck are not lymph nodes, although he did call them "unusual". And I'm not so sure of the cyst story because the one lump flattens out on the end over my windpipe (unless cysts are supposed to do that). I'm just really in a bad place right now. My mom keeps telling me that I'm fine and my doctors apparently don't think that my lumps are cancer. But then I come on here and update on my good news and I get replies that I still need to be persistent and this still COULD be cancer. So I don't know what to think anymore. If this was cancer, and had worked its way from one side of my neck to the other, wouldn't I be feeling something painful by now? Wouldn't my blood tests show up something even remotely unusual? Oh, and this one last question is the one that I can't find anywhere and would really like answered. How does cancer grow? I figured that if what is on the right side of my neck is a lymph node that is swollen because of cancer, wouldn't it continually get bigger first without seeming to grow out from the main little bean-shaped ball that a lymph node is? And the lump on the left side of my neck literally popped up in less than a day and hasn't gotten remarkably bigger since then, so isn't that a good sign? I'm just so worried because I can't find anything else good this could be. My blood tests are now completely normal, so it's not an infection. The oncologist said they're not lymph nodes, either, so that really does rule out infection. I didn't think that cysts could grow the way whatever is in my neck is. I just don't know. Anyway, again, I am so sorry to continually do this but I don't know who else to tell my concerns now because my mom says I shouldn't worry or contemplate anything until a doctor has officially diagnosed whatever this is with 100% certainty. Can benign tumors grow weirdly like mine seem to have? Eck, I'm sorry, I'll stop wasting valuable time now.


~ Amanda
#28220 09-22-2006 02:30 PM
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Amanda, here is a hugh hug from me [age 65] to you and some grandmotherly advice- trust what the Docs are telling you-if you have confidence in them- and start thinking about going to Medical School. With your inquisitive mind, you would be a good doctor smile Go get your hair and nails done and buy a fun outfit and get back to being 19 yrs. old! We'll be here if you need us. Amy


CGtoJohn:SCC Flr of Mouth.Dx 3\05. Surg.4\05.T3NOMO.IMRTx30. Recur Dx 1\06.Surg 2\06. Chemo: 4 Cycles of Carbo\Taxol:on Erbitux for 7 mo. Lost our battle 2-23-07- But not the will to fight this disease

:
#28221 09-23-2006 03:45 AM
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Thank you so much. I think I needed that. And I had my CT Scan yesterday and I know that the radiologist saw them and she was all chipper and said, "We'll have these to your doctor in 3 or 4 business days." So hopefully everything is fine. Thanks again. smile


~ Amanda
#28222 09-29-2006 02:49 AM
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Well, I go back to the oncologist on Monday. He's had my CT Scans for a few days now and hasn't made a call to rush me in, so I'm hoping that's good news. My dad actually had a biopsy done on a polyp in his sinuses a few weeks ago, and when he had his CT Scan prior to this, his GP had him into the surgeon the day she got them. Of course, he's a smoker/drinker and almost 50, so naturally they would think it might be something serious. I'm still frustrated that all of the doctors I've seen seem to downplay my lumps because I'm only 19. And I would feel more confident in them (I have seen a grand total of 5 now) because I would assume that typically a group of doctors (including 3 specialists) would be doing an FNA if they honestly thought something was wrong, but I really don't want to have a situation where they could have done something a few months ago but now it's too late because they decided to take the watch and see approach. I'm feeling very bitter right now.


~ Amanda
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