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#184935 09-07-2014 04:47 PM
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ak123 Offline OP
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The type of IMRT machine they want to use for my brother is tomotherapy.
Anyone have any experience with this?


22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue
CT scan clear LN 6/20/14
HPV-, non-smoker
R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14
(Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead
R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14
PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13
Extranodal extension present
9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun
10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin
11-4-14 IMRT rx comp
3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss.
10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
ak123 #184943 09-08-2014 03:43 AM
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Posts: 286
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No experience, but I know our hospital only recently bought one. After ten minutes reading about it and IMRT and IGRT my brain hurts! It sounds like it is an improvement in targeting the tumour and reducing collateral damage. I look forward to someone else's more knowledgeable response. smile


Cheers, Dave (OzMojo)
19Feb2014 Diagnosed T2N2bM0 P16+ve SCC Tonsil.
31Mar2014 2 Cisplatin, 70gy over 7 weeks (completed 16May2014)
11August2014 PET/CT clear.
17July2019 5 years NED.
ak123 #184946 09-08-2014 06:41 AM
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I never had it either, but Tomo, a form of IMRT, different program, uses CT guidance in real time, which is good for moveable tumors, and works slice by slice, around the patient. There was a study with IMRT vs Tomo posted here a while ago, I think I may have, and believe Tomo was better in certain aspects, outcome.

Tomo seemed popular in 2009 when I was going to have radiation, and now I hardly read about it, everything is IMRT/IGRT, but some center who have it, still use it. Maybe other future investments seem worthwhile...Proton therapy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomotherapy

Here it is. It's more of a challenge from the makers of Tomo.

http://medicalphysicsweb.org/cws/article/research/33598

Last edited by PaulB; 09-08-2014 06:56 AM.

10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs






ak123 #184961 09-08-2014 03:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
ak123 Offline OP
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There are so many options! So once NCCC (the one we go to has tomotherapy).
Not sure what the other NCCC would use for radation. A hospital an hour away which is not a NCCC has proton therapy. How do
We know which one is best.


22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue
CT scan clear LN 6/20/14
HPV-, non-smoker
R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14
(Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead
R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14
PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13
Extranodal extension present
9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun
10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin
11-4-14 IMRT rx comp
3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss.
10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
ak123 #184963 09-08-2014 03:43 PM
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From what I read Proton Therapy really works well. For what specific cancer profiles I have not a clue. I would absolutely ask your current doctors if radiation recommendations are still open for discussion. The drive may be an issue but pales if it means better outcomes, especially in patients so young.


Don
Male, 57 - Great health except C
Dec '12
DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes
1 tooth out
Jan '13
2nd tooth out
Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT
4-6/2013
CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150
ended 5/29,6/4
All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com
donfoo #184965 09-08-2014 04:12 PM
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ak123 Offline OP
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[quote=donfoo]From what I read Proton Therapy really works well. For what specific cancer profiles I have not a clue. I would absolutely ask your current doctors if radiation recommendations are still open for discussion. The drive may be an issue but pales if it means better outcomes, especially in patients so young.[/quote]

We aren't worried about the drive as the NCCC is 45 mins away also. I just wonder is a hospital with proton therapy better than a NCCC with tomotherapy.


22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue
CT scan clear LN 6/20/14
HPV-, non-smoker
R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14
(Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead
R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14
PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13
Extranodal extension present
9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun
10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin
11-4-14 IMRT rx comp
3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss.
10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
ak123 #185024 09-09-2014 12:20 PM
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Paul and others are better educated and experienced to go into the details of Proton Therapy. I know for a fact the facilities and equipment are very expensive and there are still very few of them built. My understanding is it has the ability to better focus and treat the cancerous tissues more precisely and able to do less damage to non cancerous tissue.

I mention it as your brother is so young and the more that can be done to reduce long term side effects is more important the younger the patient.

Talk to the RO about Proton and get their opinion if it might offer better outcomes for him. There are so many variables it is virtually to make any sort of generalized suggestion except for the doctors who have the full data and expertise.

Don


Don
Male, 57 - Great health except C
Dec '12
DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes
1 tooth out
Jan '13
2nd tooth out
Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT
4-6/2013
CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150
ended 5/29,6/4
All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com
ak123 #185039 09-09-2014 02:05 PM
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Don answered better than I. Discuss it with your radiation oncologist. I think there are some requirements to meet in order for the doctor to approve it, either at the proton center or your referring hospital, as well as for insurance, over the use of other therapy, like IMRT, and is a case by case decision. Mine was recommended by my RO, probably as a last resort, in the recurrence setting, so there were no other options having already done radiation 4x in the same location, two IMRT and two IORT, and the new recurrence was on the carotid artery, which has a dose limitation, including the spinal cord, even though resected the buds still needed to be radiated.

The Proton Center I went to is a private for profit entity only for Proton Therapy, but 5 major NYC hospitals just affiliated with them in September, 2013, for their use, and would have one of their RO's on premises once a week, so it was a hassle to get radiation one location, and chemo another location, 2 hrs away, which was supposed to be at my CCC, but chose to have chemo locally, which was easier, somewhat, and still had to pay someone to drive me everyday to a remote area in NJ for Proton, once a week chemo. Some are associated, in or nearby a major CCC. There are a total of 14 Proton Centers throughout the country now.

It's expensive, $7,151 a day, but Medicare covered it, and I have full Medicare coverage with a supplemental, If not, the 20% non coverage adds up, but what Medicare pays is probably half. They did have grants, but never needed to apply.

Tomorrow I see my Proton Radiologist for follow-up.


10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs






ak123 #185086 09-11-2014 07:27 AM
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Posts: 86
ak123 Offline OP
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Posts: 86
Hi everyone,
So I called the second NCCC in MI(Ann Arbor) to see what machine they use for radiation and they use an IMRT machine that starts with a V. I asked them if they have tomotherapy (the place we are treating has tomotherapy) and they don't. To tomotherapy seems like it's more targeted and it's more slice by slice radiation.

My brother is expected to start radiation at karmanos on 9/15/14 tomotherapy and chemo. I trust the doctors at karmanos but I always worry . What if there is something better out there? UM said "you have to look at other factors and not just the machine" well the karmanos radiation doctor that my brother has is the chief of his department.

UM said they can squeeze us tomorrow morning for a second opinion but they wouldn't be able to start treatment until 9-19-14.

At this point is it worth another opinion?


22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue
CT scan clear LN 6/20/14
HPV-, non-smoker
R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14
(Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead
R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14
PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13
Extranodal extension present
9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun
10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin
11-4-14 IMRT rx comp
3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss.
10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
ak123 #185087 09-11-2014 08:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,267
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It's probably Varian.


10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs






ak123 #185089 09-11-2014 08:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,291
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One of the side effects many overlook is the second guessing that can occur. Did we go to the right place? Did we agree to the right treatment plan? Was there another place that could have done it better? ......

Some people manage doubt quite well, others find it difficult and get quite stressed. If you have doubts now and tend to chant coulda-woulda-shoulda, get more input now and be 100% sure you are proceeding on the best path knowing all you know and reviewing all available options.

There are no do-overs and a short delay is a very small price to pay to have peace of mind if you are not 100% sure. All providers will fully understand.

Good luck
Don


Don
Male, 57 - Great health except C
Dec '12
DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes
1 tooth out
Jan '13
2nd tooth out
Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT
4-6/2013
CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150
ended 5/29,6/4
All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com
ak123 #185347 09-21-2014 08:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1
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Posts: 1
Not heard of tomotherapy...my brother 42 has umdergone surgeryand his entire lower jaw has been removed n they ve put skin from the thighs but the flap is not responding coz no blood circulation in tht area..coz he is obese n diabetic...nyone any idea of nythng like this...even radiation n chemo is being delayed coz of this....


Namrata
ak123 #185349 09-21-2014 12:46 PM
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If the mandibulectomy surgery failed the patient could end up having to go thru it again. The procedure has a relatively high failure rate but I doubt it is due to obesity. This is a serious problem! Until the doctors can fix his jaw then nothing else will be done. It might be a good plan to consider getting a second opinion at one of the country's top comprehensive cancer centers. It happened to me too and I am now living without half of my lower jaw.

Best wishes!


Christine
SCC 6/15/07 L chk & by L molar both Stag I, age44
2x cispltn-35 IMRT end 9/27/07
-65 lbs in 2 mo, no caregvr
Clear PET 1/08
4/4/08 recur L chk Stag I
surg 4/16/08 clr marg
215 HBO dives
3/09 teeth out, trismus
7/2/09 recur, Stg IV
8/24/09 trach, ND, mandiblctmy
3wks medicly inducd coma
2 mo xtended hospital stay, ICU & burn unit
PICC line IV antibx 8 mo
10/4/10, 2/14/11 reconst surg
OC 3x in 3 years
very happy to be alive smile
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