| Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 Supporting Member (50+ posts) | OP Supporting Member (50+ posts) Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 | The type of IMRT machine they want to use for my brother is tomotherapy. Anyone have any experience with this?
22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue CT scan clear LN 6/20/14 HPV-, non-smoker R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14 (Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14 PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13 Extranodal extension present 9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun 10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin 11-4-14 IMRT rx comp 3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss. 10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
| | | | Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) | "OCF Down Under" Gold Member (200+ posts) Joined: Mar 2014 Posts: 286 | No experience, but I know our hospital only recently bought one. After ten minutes reading about it and IMRT and IGRT my brain hurts! It sounds like it is an improvement in targeting the tumour and reducing collateral damage. I look forward to someone else's more knowledgeable response. Cheers, Dave (OzMojo) 19Feb2014 Diagnosed T2N2bM0 P16+ve SCC Tonsil. 31Mar2014 2 Cisplatin, 70gy over 7 weeks (completed 16May2014) 11August2014 PET/CT clear. 17July2019 5 years NED.
| | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | I never had it either, but Tomo, a form of IMRT, different program, uses CT guidance in real time, which is good for moveable tumors, and works slice by slice, around the patient. There was a study with IMRT vs Tomo posted here a while ago, I think I may have, and believe Tomo was better in certain aspects, outcome. Tomo seemed popular in 2009 when I was going to have radiation, and now I hardly read about it, everything is IMRT/IGRT, but some center who have it, still use it. Maybe other future investments seem worthwhile...Proton therapy. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TomotherapyHere it is. It's more of a challenge from the makers of Tomo. http://medicalphysicsweb.org/cws/article/research/33598
Last edited by PaulB; 09-08-2014 06:56 AM.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil 11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp 01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks 06/11 30 HBO 08/11 RND PNI 06/12 SND PNI LVI 08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy 10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux 10/13 SND 10/13 TBO/Angiograph 10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI 12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo 11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO 03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN 09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy 04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site 06/17 Heart Attack Stent 02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 Supporting Member (50+ posts) | OP Supporting Member (50+ posts) Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 | There are so many options! So once NCCC (the one we go to has tomotherapy). Not sure what the other NCCC would use for radation. A hospital an hour away which is not a NCCC has proton therapy. How do We know which one is best.
22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue CT scan clear LN 6/20/14 HPV-, non-smoker R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14 (Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14 PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13 Extranodal extension present 9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun 10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin 11-4-14 IMRT rx comp 3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss. 10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
| | | | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 | From what I read Proton Therapy really works well. For what specific cancer profiles I have not a clue. I would absolutely ask your current doctors if radiation recommendations are still open for discussion. The drive may be an issue but pales if it means better outcomes, especially in patients so young.
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | | | Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 Supporting Member (50+ posts) | OP Supporting Member (50+ posts) Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 | [quote=donfoo]From what I read Proton Therapy really works well. For what specific cancer profiles I have not a clue. I would absolutely ask your current doctors if radiation recommendations are still open for discussion. The drive may be an issue but pales if it means better outcomes, especially in patients so young.[/quote]
We aren't worried about the drive as the NCCC is 45 mins away also. I just wonder is a hospital with proton therapy better than a NCCC with tomotherapy.
22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue CT scan clear LN 6/20/14 HPV-, non-smoker R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14 (Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14 PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13 Extranodal extension present 9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun 10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin 11-4-14 IMRT rx comp 3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss. 10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
| | | | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 | Paul and others are better educated and experienced to go into the details of Proton Therapy. I know for a fact the facilities and equipment are very expensive and there are still very few of them built. My understanding is it has the ability to better focus and treat the cancerous tissues more precisely and able to do less damage to non cancerous tissue.
I mention it as your brother is so young and the more that can be done to reduce long term side effects is more important the younger the patient.
Talk to the RO about Proton and get their opinion if it might offer better outcomes for him. There are so many variables it is virtually to make any sort of generalized suggestion except for the doctors who have the full data and expertise.
Don
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | Don answered better than I. Discuss it with your radiation oncologist. I think there are some requirements to meet in order for the doctor to approve it, either at the proton center or your referring hospital, as well as for insurance, over the use of other therapy, like IMRT, and is a case by case decision. Mine was recommended by my RO, probably as a last resort, in the recurrence setting, so there were no other options having already done radiation 4x in the same location, two IMRT and two IORT, and the new recurrence was on the carotid artery, which has a dose limitation, including the spinal cord, even though resected the buds still needed to be radiated.
The Proton Center I went to is a private for profit entity only for Proton Therapy, but 5 major NYC hospitals just affiliated with them in September, 2013, for their use, and would have one of their RO's on premises once a week, so it was a hassle to get radiation one location, and chemo another location, 2 hrs away, which was supposed to be at my CCC, but chose to have chemo locally, which was easier, somewhat, and still had to pay someone to drive me everyday to a remote area in NJ for Proton, once a week chemo. Some are associated, in or nearby a major CCC. There are a total of 14 Proton Centers throughout the country now.
It's expensive, $7,151 a day, but Medicare covered it, and I have full Medicare coverage with a supplemental, If not, the 20% non coverage adds up, but what Medicare pays is probably half. They did have grants, but never needed to apply.
Tomorrow I see my Proton Radiologist for follow-up.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil 11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp 01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks 06/11 30 HBO 08/11 RND PNI 06/12 SND PNI LVI 08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy 10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux 10/13 SND 10/13 TBO/Angiograph 10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI 12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo 11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO 03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN 09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy 04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site 06/17 Heart Attack Stent 02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 Supporting Member (50+ posts) | OP Supporting Member (50+ posts) Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 86 | Hi everyone, So I called the second NCCC in MI(Ann Arbor) to see what machine they use for radiation and they use an IMRT machine that starts with a V. I asked them if they have tomotherapy (the place we are treating has tomotherapy) and they don't. To tomotherapy seems like it's more targeted and it's more slice by slice radiation.
My brother is expected to start radiation at karmanos on 9/15/14 tomotherapy and chemo. I trust the doctors at karmanos but I always worry . What if there is something better out there? UM said "you have to look at other factors and not just the machine" well the karmanos radiation doctor that my brother has is the chief of his department.
UM said they can squeeze us tomorrow morning for a second opinion but they wouldn't be able to start treatment until 9-19-14.
At this point is it worth another opinion?
22 YO Brother Dx 6/17/14 w. SCC R Lateral tongue CT scan clear LN 6/20/14 HPV-, non-smoker R tongue, right hemiglossectomy Surgery 6/24/14 (Not reoccurrence but went to NCCC instead R neck dissection, tracheostomy, radial free flap, R tongue dissection surg 8/11/14 PT1N2B.3 positive lymph nodes out of 13 Extranodal extension present 9-15-14 IMRT (35x) & Cisplatin (2x) begun 10-21-14 peg in. 10-31-14 1 round of carboplatin 11-4-14 IMRT rx comp 3-27-15 Recurrent tumor in lymph node, L neck diss. 10-29-15 brother passed away, 23 yrs old
| | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 |
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil 11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp 01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks 06/11 30 HBO 08/11 RND PNI 06/12 SND PNI LVI 08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy 10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux 10/13 SND 10/13 TBO/Angiograph 10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI 12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo 11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO 03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN 09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy 04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site 06/17 Heart Attack Stent 02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 | One of the side effects many overlook is the second guessing that can occur. Did we go to the right place? Did we agree to the right treatment plan? Was there another place that could have done it better? ......
Some people manage doubt quite well, others find it difficult and get quite stressed. If you have doubts now and tend to chant coulda-woulda-shoulda, get more input now and be 100% sure you are proceeding on the best path knowing all you know and reviewing all available options.
There are no do-overs and a short delay is a very small price to pay to have peace of mind if you are not 100% sure. All providers will fully understand.
Good luck Don
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | | | Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 1 Member | Member Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 1 | Not heard of tomotherapy...my brother 42 has umdergone surgeryand his entire lower jaw has been removed n they ve put skin from the thighs but the flap is not responding coz no blood circulation in tht area..coz he is obese n diabetic...nyone any idea of nythng like this...even radiation n chemo is being delayed coz of this....
Namrata
| | | | Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,507 Likes: 6 Administrator, Director of Patient Support Services Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Administrator, Director of Patient Support Services Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,507 Likes: 6 | If the mandibulectomy surgery failed the patient could end up having to go thru it again. The procedure has a relatively high failure rate but I doubt it is due to obesity. This is a serious problem! Until the doctors can fix his jaw then nothing else will be done. It might be a good plan to consider getting a second opinion at one of the country's top comprehensive cancer centers. It happened to me too and I am now living without half of my lower jaw.
Best wishes! ChristineSCC 6/15/07 L chk & by L molar both Stag I, age44 2x cispltn-35 IMRT end 9/27/07 -65 lbs in 2 mo, no caregvr Clear PET 1/08 4/4/08 recur L chk Stag I surg 4/16/08 clr marg 215 HBO dives 3/09 teeth out, trismus 7/2/09 recur, Stg IV 8/24/09 trach, ND, mandiblctmy 3wks medicly inducd coma 2 mo xtended hospital stay, ICU & burn unit PICC line IV antibx 8 mo 10/4/10, 2/14/11 reconst surg OC 3x in 3 years very happy to be alive | | |
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