| | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | OP  Patient Advocate (1000+ posts)
Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 | [quote]Extra capsular anything is usually a signal that they should follow up your surgery with rads and chemo... smile[/quote]The reason I asked about extracapsular is it did not pop up as a term referenced in my tests, diagnosis, or treatment. The main points were the biopsies of the BOT primary and FNA of the lymph stated "poorly differentiated SCC", no mention of extracapsular.
Can they even determine extracapsular from an FNA? I am thinking they can really only determine this if the entire nodes are removed then examined.
Given I got the full "drano" chemo treatment, maybe it does not matter as any loose, micro cancers were killed off which is fine with me. I sure sleep much better knowing my whole system got a full flush then chemo-rads to ensure total annihilation of the nasties.
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | | | | Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 421 Likes: 1 Platinum Member (300+ posts) | | Platinum Member (300+ posts)
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 421 Likes: 1 | Foo,
The only way I know that they can tell if the tumors are extracapsulated is by direct exam. When they went in to remove mine, it was obvious they had broken out...
"T"
57
Cardiac bypass 11/07
Cardiac stents 10/2012
Dx'd 11/30/2012 Tx N2b MO Stage IV HPV+
Palatine Tonsillectomy/Biopsies 12-21-12
Selective Neck Dissection/Lingual Tonsillectomy/biopsies TORS 2/7/13
Emergency Surgery/Bleeding 2/18/13
3/13/2013 30rads/6chemo
Finished Tx 4/24/13
NED Since
| | | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | i read a CT can show ECS, sometimes, and forget the details, and there are always details lol. As Ed explained, ECS is different than ECE, and one is microscopic and other macroscopic, and is surely confusing. I think if its absent in any report is none was seen, but as T mentioned, it wasn't until they went to remove them it was apparent. They can also tell by the size of the node it may. Don, most HPVOPC are poorly differentiated.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 | Paul, I'm pretty sure your cancer slides from 2009 are still required to be stored ( I think I remember being told 7 yrs) so they still could be tested for HPV.
David
Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
| | | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | Thanks David. I think they have to be frozen, and something about two years, maybe the quality. I'll try to look look into it for my own curiosity, doesn't really matter now, but been so busy with other matters, I never did again.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 | Yep only mentioned it because I think you are just like me in having to know EVERYTHING. lol
David
Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
| | | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | That's true with most everything I have an interest in. I'm reading about pathology right now for breakfast, lunch, I don't know yet lol
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,912 Likes: 52 OCF Founder Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | OCF Founder Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,912 Likes: 52 | The mandatory US storage time is 7 years. However many are stored longer depending on the institution. Hopkins has been building a data bank of OPSCC tissue samples that goes back to Maura's original work in 1998. The National tissue bank has samples that Dr. Gillison and OCF were able to tap into for the article on the HPV pages that is a forward look at where we will be in 2020, by looking back a samples from 1972 forward and projecting a trend line. Small labs only have to keep it for seven years, by then usually any anomalies or lawsuits have come and gone.
Last edited by Brian Hill; 08-28-2013 09:25 PM.
Brian, stage 4 oral cancer survivor. OCF Founder and Director. The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.
| | | | | Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts)
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,267 Likes: 1 | Thanks Brian, David! I still have time in the bank..3 years. I'm going to request it, and they should have plenty of samples at my current hospital or previous one.
10/09 T1N2bM0 Tonsil
11/09 Taxo Cisp 5-FU, 6 Months Hosp
01/11 35 IMRT 70Gy 7 Wks
06/11 30 HBO
08/11 RND PNI
06/12 SND PNI LVI
08/12 RND Pec Flap IORT 12 Gy
10/12 25 IMRT 50Gy 6 Wks Taxo Erbitux
10/13 SND
10/13 TBO/Angiograph
10/13 RND Carotid Remove IORT 10Gy PNI
12/13 25 Protons 50Gy 6 Wks Carbo
11/14 All Teeth Extract 30 HBO
03/15 Sequestromy Buccal Flap ORN
09/16 Mandibulectomy Fib Flap Sternotomy
04/17 Regraft hypergranulation Donor Site
06/17 Heart Attack Stent
02/19 Finally Cancer Free Took 10 yrs
| | | | | Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 Patient Advocate (1000+ posts) | | OP Patient Advocate (1000+ posts)
Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,291 Likes: 1 | Giving this oldie a bump due to the recent thread on Prognosis Determination http://oralcancersupport.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=185171#Post185171 where the calculator asks about Extracapsular Spread status. It seems odd to ask about this when it is hardly mentioned here and remains unclear to many.
Last edited by donfoo; 09-18-2014 02:07 PM.
Don Male, 57 - Great health except C Dec '12 DX: BOT SCC T2N2bMx, Stage 4a, HPV+, multiple nodes 1 tooth out Jan '13 2nd tooth out Tumor Board -induction TPF (3 cycles), seq CRT 4-6/2013 CRT 70gr 2x35, weekly carbo150 ended 5/29,6/4 All the details, join at http://beatdown.cognacom.com | | |
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