Don, I think your question is really too generalized to answer my friend as I can't, nor do I know anyone that would know the specific leucine content of every whey product on the market. Also consider that age, sex, activity levels, lean body mass percentages etc are all going to be a factor of how much protein/leucine is needed. Everyone is going to be different.

So I will give you information from both Drs Layne Norton and Donald Layman, PhDs that have been published in the Journal of Nutrition on the subject of leucine and protein intake.

"While the combination of high-frequency stimulation and growth factors increases protein synthesis postexercise, synthesis is not fully stimulated and skeletal muscle remains catabolic without supplemental dietary leucine, either alone or as a part of protein or an amino acid mixture. Supplemental leucine allows for the muscle to achieve maximum protein synthesis and anabolic recover"

"Carbohydrates, nonessential amino acids, and other essential amino acids do not have stimulatory effects on protein synthesis when compared with leucine. However, in most cases, the combination of amino acid supplements with carbohydrates produces additive effects on the stimulation of the PI3-kinase and mTOR pathways, producing the maximum rates of protein synthesis during recovery"

"The impact of supplemental amino acids and carbohydrates on muscle protein synthesis was further evaluated by Volpi et al. They reported age-related differences in how subjects responded to protein and carbohydrates. In both young adults (∼30 y.o.) and older adults (∼69 y.o.) supplemental essential amino acids produced an anabolic effect on muscle protein synthesis. Further, combination of the essential amino acids with carbohydrates produced an additive enhancement of muscle protein synthesis in the young adults. However, in older adults, addition of carbohydrates (producing increased plasma insulin) eliminated the anabolic effect of supplemental amino acids. These authors suggested that the presents of carbohydrates in nutritional supplements may impair the anabolic effect of muscle protein synthesis in older adults."

Eric,

Those articles were what got me thinking about amino acids and their ability increase protein uptake. What about more general question like, "Do you think drinking amino acid supplement during the day, between protein shakes, would likely help protein synthesis or just wasting my money and just as good to drink plain water?" :-)

One other question please. Does BCAA naturally exist in the whey protein or is it usually added as a supplement to the basic bulk whey protein ingredient?

Don I don't think you're wasting your money on supplemental BCAA's nor would you be wasting it on a whey or any other protein supplement for that matter (I'm not a fan of Soy by the way).

When you think about those of us that are recovering and fighting the long term effects of radiation and our increased need for building blocks, supplementing just makes sense, especially when you consider the intake challenges most of us face.

Getting over 1g of protein/lb of body weight is a steep task via whole foods that even someone without the swallowing issues most of us face would have issues keeping to. I know I've tried it.

I truly believe that "proper" nutrition (not the latest diet fad) is the key to not only recovery (as I think I'm a great example of) but also in our longevity after our cancer ordeal. Always make sure you check this with your physician prior to making any diet changes.


All essential amino acids and BCAAs and will be in a complete source of protein, like Whey, Egg, animal, soy, and other "complete" proteins.

Eric,

[quote]All essential amino acids and BCAAs and will be in a complete source of protein, like Whey, Egg, animal, soy, and other "complete" proteins. [/quote]Good to know. So, I will keep looking for any general breakdown of say whey protein isolate and its natural BCAA components for tracking purposes.

My son has some good amino acid supplement that I will use in liquid form in my daily water for consumption throughout the day.

This combination will ensure optimal protein synthesis and uptake.

Now, I need to go back and adjust the quantities in the primary protein shake to account for at least 1g/lb. Lastly, I'll need to recalc the amount of maltodextrin and other (complex,simple) carb to get the total caloric daily target.

Sound like a plan? I need to get this done; otherwise, I continue to wilt away and the docs are going to PEG me if I don't keep the weight on. LOL

Don,

There is a free app for smartphones called "Calorie Counter" by Fatsecret that I use to track my weight, caloric intake, macro nutrient breakdown, and calories burned. If you don't have a smartphone then hit their site www.fatsecret.com.

This makes it easy to keep your goals in site and track your progress.

Keep pushing forward my friend

Eric

Don,
how often are you eating? I had to 'remind' (aka, nag) my husband to do his lunch protein shake for several months. Tracking online could be useful, too.

When you are up to it, and have a REALLY good blender, you can include raw apples (minus the core) in your shakes. My husband adds cinnamon and cloves to these and they are surprisingly tasty.

Best wishes and take care so you don't wither away OR get 'PEG'ed.
Maria

Ditto!

Eric, you are the nutrition guru so I am watching for your posts too. So sad to look Old Frack, I think of him a lot, especially around recipes for some reason.

Do you happen to have a sorted list and suggestions for adding sweetness to a protein/carb powder mix?

I'm a bit stuck on what to use. Obviously HFCS gives the highest sweetness kick with the worst release rate and lack of nutritional value. Maltodextrin on the other hand is good for even breakdown into simple sugars but is marginal to add any decent sweet kick. I have recently come across stevia, any opinion on this one? don

[quote=EricS]You bet David. I'll start writing it today and we'll get it posted. I've been working with a couple of guys with Doctorates in nutrition and Physical Therapy on these thoughts and we've got some great material to help patients in treatment and then recovery after.

As I do not want to hijack Jim's thread I won't answer any nutritional questions here and will save it for my own post. This is Jim's thread for Jim in dealing with his diagnosis and an opportunity for us to show him love and support, so that's what I'm going to do.

Let us know your results from your appointment my friend, looking forward to it. [/quote]

Ok...hijacking but only temporarily.

While you are doing this please look into the lipid connection for nerve damage. I got down to 5% body fat and they had to put me on methadone for several weeks because of intense nerve pain head to toe. For ALS patients it is imperative to keep lipids coming for comfort and slowing disease progression. We hear low fat no fat all the time but the truth is we really need the fat. It is just hard to find healthy fat.

Ed

[quote=PaulB]I assume it's BOT or Tonsil? Speaking of eating all you can eat unnecessarily prior to treatment, just to bulk up, I read excess nutrients can also feed and progress cancer. On the other hand, I basically live to eat, and ate most foods on my bucket list before starting treatment knowing I wouldn't taste much in a while, and making up for every meal I missed for the past 3.5 years lol, but 95%, if not more, what I eat is home made, fresh. Good luck.

"High levels of cellular nutrient metabolism result in ROS production and oxidative stress that can contribute to the development and progression of cancer..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3190402/ [/quote]

Oxidative stress is one theory on post radiation lower motor neuron disorder. Martin Pall a biochemist from Washington identified what he has dubbed the NO/ONOO cycle. He along with others believe not addressing the oxidative stress can create a cycle that becomes chronic and not reversible. It is believed to be tied to CFS, PTSD, FM, post radiation issues and a few other inflammatory type diseases.

http://thetenthparadigm.org/otherdiseases.htm


Ed

Thanks, Ed for the added info.