How do you help someone who won't help themselves? Gordon skips meals occasionally, doesn't really eat enough and gives little thought to his nutritional needs. He's now back to work full-time and just sits up late on the Internet, getting 5 or maybe 6 hrs. of sleep a night. He doesn't read anything about oral cancer, or what's happened to him, and never has. He complains about his blood sugar, which is shooting up again (he's prediabetic), but keeps eating the cereal that's contributing to the problem. He says oatmal makes him gag, even though he hasn�t tried it for months. He says that eating is just a hideous chore, yet he's definitely eating better and appears to be almost enjoying some things from time to time.

I nag, plead, yell, cry and all that useless stuff. Doesn't make much difference and just gets me really upset. Yes, I've read "Co-dependence No More" and see myself on every page. My view is that we both have to be working on his health, not just me. What do you do? Back off and let him wait for the consequences, which of course will mean more caregiving for me? Deliver an ultimatum (start looking after yourself or I'm outta here) and be prepared to stick to it this time?

Yes, he is depressed, and is on Prozac and Mirtazipine. Of course now he's trying to chuck these meds. because he doesn't like being artificially propped up. I've urged him to speak to his Dr. before going off them, which at least he is going to do. I know how hard it is to cope with the eating issues, having observed it all at close range for nine months now, and I can't say I'd be able to do any better if it were me.

I'm angry at him almost every second day, feel depressed myself and seem to be not so good at the "detachment" part of changing my codependent behaviour. I'm kind of at a loss�.
Anne

Anne - Being a caregiver can be so difficult at times, but at least it's good that you got Gordon to agree to speak to his doctor about the meds he is on. There are often bad side effects and reactions depending on the individual taking them. And it can be scarey to even look up stuff on cancer even though you know it's better to find out. Before I found this forum it took me several days before I could even bear to search the internet for "Squamous Cell Cancer". I was so afraid of that I would find out and of losing my son. So I can see why maybe Gordon is hesitant about reading anything about oral cancer. My son only came on this site a very few times because he said it depressed him so I ended up printing out the more positive aspects of recovery for him to see and the awesome people on this site helped us both more than words can ever say. You say that Gordon is eating better so it sounds like he is making some progress. At one point, when my son just did not seem to care about his recovery I told him I felt I was the only one fighting this cancer and he just had to help me out a little! Maybe if you talk to the doctor before Gordon does and let him know what's going on, he might be able to give him a little encouragement in getting healthier. Caregivers get depressed, too, Anne - so do think about what you can do for yourself to help you feel better. Please check back and let us know what's happening.

He gets 5-6 hours a night sleep? I wish I could. I have struggled with insomnia ever since I started the cancer adventure. They tried to put me on the "crazy meds" too and I had had enough drugs. For now anyway - lately I have been reconsidering.

There is nothing wrong with proper management for depression and anxiety but go to a psychiatrist who specializes in that sort of thing and will properly monitor and refine the dose rate and drug combinations. One needs to be "dialed in" to those types of medications and it can take years of trial and error to do so. Brain chemistry is very complex. Cognitive therapy, with a psychologist, should be a component of that plan should he follow it. Depression is a most common side effect of cancer treatment. He is also probably greving his pre-cancer life and most likely suffers from PTSD as well. Too many non-qualified doctors are prescribing these complex medications like aspirin these days and doing a great disservice to their patients.

Nagging, yelling, etc. only enable him - his resistance, to you, is probably the only thing he has control over. Find a good CODA group for yourself and stuff your anger (around him) - it's not helping him. Just reading a self help book doesn't make you an expert on codependancy. Consider, at least, some anti-anxiety meds for yourself. Everything you have described in your first post sounds more like your venting your problems and not really solutions for his.

I'm not trying to minimize your pain here. We cancer patients have it easy - if things don't out we just die and it's game over. Caregivers are left behind with a lot of emotional damage, second guessing, etc. Caregiving is truly the more difficult of the two.

Thanks to both of you for your support and suggestions. They are much appreciated and it's helpful to get some perspective on all this.

Gordon doesn't have insomnia, he just stays up late on the Internet, so there's an element of choice involved. The lack of sleep isn't going to help him with his recovery.

He has been seeing a psychiatrist, who put him on Prozac, and refused to budge when Gordon told him it wasn't working (he just upped the dose, and that didn't work either). He added the Mirtazipine, which doesn't seem to have had much effect. Gordon told him that he thought he was suffering from PTSD, but the psychiatrist just looked vaguely interested for two seconds, and then never mentioned it again. Gordon has now ditched this psychiatrist (who is useless as a counsellor as well) and is going to try to see someone else.

Yes, my original post is about my own frustration and anger - this seemed like the best thread to vent. I remember the last day Gordon could eat any solid food (oatmeal) three weeks into treatment, and I wondered how, as the sole caregiver, I was ever going to get him through the rest of it as he was bombed on painkillers and could do nothing for himself. Having had to give over my whole being to try to keep him going, it's really hard to see him not doing what he needs to do for himself with the three cornerstones of recovery: nutrition, sleep and exercise.

However, your points about enabling and codependency are well-taken. I've never pretended to be an expert on codependency after reading one book, and am aware of how difficult and time-consuming it is to change your own behaviour. Clearly the way I'm handling things isn't working, and I'm going to have to back off and let him find his own way, for his sake and for mine.

I think you're right about control being the issue here, and he's probably trying to regain some semblance of it any way he can. He may be grieving about the loss of his previous life but isn't really dealing with it or showing it yet. I'm seeing a counsellor myself now to try and work on some of my issues. Ativan every night at least allows me to get some sleep and keeps some of the anxiety at bay. Sometimes, I just feel angry, depressed, hopeless and alone. Anne

PS - Dying if things don't work out isn't exactly getting off easy, IMO.

Kick him in the rear when he's comfortable. Hell I get tired of cereal but sure am glad for it. Oatmeal comes in flavors, Tell him to try those.Even put a little vanilla in it for flavor. It works. As for the internet, what's the attraction there for him? You are a lady to be appreciated not made to feel bad.

Thanks EzJim. Your words bring tears to my eyes, for reasons that I can't explain here. Anne

Hi Anne

Substitute the name Alex for Gordon and you are telling my story. It is frustrating when you know this dependent and recalcitrant child used to be your intelligent and respected equal. Why does he have his head in the sand when the consequence is death or permanent loss of function? Does he have a death wish? Are you wasting your time trying to keep him alive? Do you have the energy to see this through? Will you even be able to keep the resentment at bay and keep loving him? All these questions I have asked myself and in my weak moments repeated them to him -usually at screaming pitch.

Gary is right - none of the nagging and threats help him but then this thread is about you not your husband. How do YOU cope with his apparently self destructive behaviour? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it is exactly what you are doing by getting help for yourself (drugs, time out, counselling, keep a journal, vent here etc).

However, Gary has another very important point that I wished I had realisd earlier in my own battles with my tantrum throwing , petulant, self destructive man/child - your husband is trying to re-assert himself and take some control back. This was explained to me when my Alex apparently embarked upon a suicide mission to starve himself to death. With his entire life in shreds, his future on hold, his earning capacity (and therefore his sense of worth) at zero and others dictating his every move, this was the only thing he could control. With me nagging at him daily about his nutrition, his only option for taking control was to refuse to eat. And he did. Down to 48kgs (105lbs). He is still horribly underweight and still PEG dependent but I have stopped nagging and vent to others when I need to. Suprisingly, since making the decision to stop commenting on his diet, I have found it less stressful myself. However, I NEVER allow him to lie to himself either and correct comments such as "I can't swallow" to "No, you CAN swallow, you CHOOSE not to". He forfeits the right to complain about how boring his diet is as a consequence of his choice, but at least he has control.

Sounds like your Gordon is doing the same - not necessarily the best choice to make but not a deal breaker either. Completely off the subject, late night internet interaction is not peculiar to your husband, - my mother has been an internet/computer game widow for the last 20 years and in my own relationship, it is me sitting up at 2am typing madly on OCF website whilst Alex, the cat and his feeding pump all burble quietly in the background

Thanks Karen, for your comments. I'm sure we're not the only ones struggling with these particular issues. It's horrifying to think that your husband engaged in such destructive behaviour at such a crucial time. Why can't they see that looking after themselves is also a way of taking control? I just don't get it.

I'm trying to back off from nagging Gordon about his weight, food intake, sleep etc. It means I have to bite my tongue a lot, and it's getting pretty chewed up. At a certain point, if the lack of self-care continues, what do you do? Just stand by and let them go down the drain?

Gordon's Internet overuse is not uncommon (there's lots of talk about Internet addiction these days), but it does interfere with him getting enough sleep and then trying to get through the next day's work. More tongue-biting, I guess. Anne

I actually forgot to say the most important thing:
Gordon's behaviour is absolutely normal - well, maybe not normal so much as common, as is your reaction to it all.

I have found the greatest comfort on this site, has been the discovery that Alex and I are not unique with our weird thoughts and behaviours - everyone else has them too.

I still don't get a lot of why Alex does what he does (or in his case doesn't do), but feel reassured that he is probably not suicidal just a horrible patient!

But if he tells me one more time how logical and rational he is ...