| Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 701 Likes: 1 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | OP "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 701 Likes: 1 | I was reading the post about braces and wonder if anyone has noticed a change in the alignment of their teeth post treatment. Clark's teeth on his upper jaw have shifted and he believes it is from his fluoride trays. Consequently, he has stopped using them. Hmmm...
He had 2 molars removed last November on the upper right side, Why would his teeth appear to be sliding forward, crowding his front teeth? Also, his teeth are darker and more brittle. Our dentist is going to use a bonding agent on a tooth that recently chipped. Clark wants to use whitening strips to brighten his smile.
Anyone want to weigh in here?
Anita (68) CG to husband, Clark, 79, DX SCC 11/07, T4N0Mx, PEG 1/08, RAD, post rad infection 3/08, HBOT 40 dives, ORN, Surg 11/09 mandibulectomy w/fibular graft. Plastic Surg 4/10, 12/10, 3/11, 10/11, 4/12, 10/12. All PETS clear, PEG out 1/11. 6/11 non union jaw fracture Fractured jaw w/surgery 7/14 Aspiration pneumonia 7/21, 10/22 PEG 7/21 Botox injections
| | | | Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 404 Likes: 2 "OCF Down Under" Platinum Member (300+ posts) | "OCF Down Under" Platinum Member (300+ posts) Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 404 Likes: 2 | Hi Anita
I can relate to this (just for something different!!!)
Before radiotherapy I had 2 wisdom teeth and one upper crown tooth removed. Following radiotherapy, the space where the crown tooth was taken from closed over, my jaw had contracted. On the upper left side (where most of the radiotherapy was aimed) I have also had 2 teeth move from being straight to bending inwards.
My upper natural teeth haven't discolored. I get them cleaned every 2 months at the dental hygenist. The flouride might be the cause. Is Clark using a mouthwash, because several mouthwashes can cause teeth to discolor.
Take care
Karen
46 yrs: Apr 07-SCC 80% entire tongue removed,T4N1M0 Neck/D,Jaw Split, Trache 2 ops,PEG 3.5yrs 30 x rad,6 x Cisplatin, 30 x HBO Apr'08- flap Recon + ORN Mandibulectomy (hip bone to reconstruct jaw) Oct'08 1 Plate out-jaw Mar'09 Debulk flap Sep'09/Jan&Nov'10/Feb&Jun'11/Jan&Jul'12/Oct'13/April'14-More surgery
| | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 | He needs to get back to his dentist and he should not stop using the trays. I still use mine 4 years post Tx and my dentist says I should continue forever which I hope is a long time. lol
David
Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
| | | | Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,507 Likes: 7 Administrator, Director of Patient Support Services Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Administrator, Director of Patient Support Services Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 10,507 Likes: 7 | Anita, I had to have my teeth removed due to problems from radiation. My teeth loosened and were wiggly like a little kid's. They werent discolored that I can remember. Its terrible being without teeth, hope Clark's can be corrected. I have trismus so bad that the dentist cant get a mold in to make dentures. ChristineSCC 6/15/07 L chk & by L molar both Stag I, age44 2x cispltn-35 IMRT end 9/27/07 -65 lbs in 2 mo, no caregvr Clear PET 1/08 4/4/08 recur L chk Stag I surg 4/16/08 clr marg 215 HBO dives 3/09 teeth out, trismus 7/2/09 recur, Stg IV 8/24/09 trach, ND, mandiblctmy 3wks medicly inducd coma 2 mo xtended hospital stay, ICU & burn unit PICC line IV antibx 8 mo 10/4/10, 2/14/11 reconst surg OC 3x in 3 years very happy to be alive | | | | Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 701 Likes: 1 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | OP "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 701 Likes: 1 | David, Clark goes to the dentist every three months for cleaning. But I agree he should be using the trays for the rest of his life. He is stubborn. He thinks the trays have caused the shifting of his teeth. I don't buy that. If anything, the trays may have helped keep his teeth in line a little longer. But what do I know. I am not a dentist or an orthodontist. Maybe the shifting of his teeth was inevitable, given the numerous surgeries and radiation.
Christine, Clark did use a rinse post surgery (07) that did cause some discoloration. He hasn't used anything since then. Did you mean that fluoride can cause staining, too? I had forgotten that you had your teeth removed. Geez, discolored and crooked teeth are a small concern compared to not having them at all.
Karen, The one tooth that is the worst has slid toward the inside of his mouth, behind the other teeth. I'm guessing that radiation is the main cause for this, NOT the removal of his molars.
Thanks for the comments, everyone!
Anita
Last edited by AnitaFrances; 09-10-2010 06:54 AM.
Anita (68) CG to husband, Clark, 79, DX SCC 11/07, T4N0Mx, PEG 1/08, RAD, post rad infection 3/08, HBOT 40 dives, ORN, Surg 11/09 mandibulectomy w/fibular graft. Plastic Surg 4/10, 12/10, 3/11, 10/11, 4/12, 10/12. All PETS clear, PEG out 1/11. 6/11 non union jaw fracture Fractured jaw w/surgery 7/14 Aspiration pneumonia 7/21, 10/22 PEG 7/21 Botox injections
| | | | Joined: May 2002 Posts: 2,152 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: May 2002 Posts: 2,152 | Hi Anita, I strongly suspect he is using Gel-Kam, HUP reommended, or some other .4 stannous flouride which does cause major discoloration of the teeth. This is what I use and my teeth are darker than when I was a cigarrette smoker. I get mine cleaned and polished every two months by my periodontist. There is a 1.1 some other type of flouride that is not supposed to stain as badly but it is also not supposed to be as effective. Thus far, I have not found any brand available in our area. I did have my teeth professionally whitened by my prosthodontist and it was after that that I started to develop all sorts of cavities eventually leading me to have all my teeth capped (I only have 12, they pulled the others before rads). My dentist says no relation and he is a MDA graduate so should know but I wonder if the bleach on the radiated teeth was just too much. Clark does need to keep using his trays if he wants to keep his teeth. Maybe see if you can find some of that other flouride that doesn't stain as badly. If you do, let me know the brand.
Take care, Eileen
---------------------- Aug 1997 unknown primary, Stage III mets to 1 lymph node in neck; rt ND, 36 XRT rad Aug 2001 tiny tumor on larynx, Stage I total laryngectomy; left ND June 5, 2010 dx early stage breast cancer June 9, 2011 SCC 1.5 cm hypo pharynx, 70% P-16 positive, no mets, Stage I
| | | | Joined: May 2002 Posts: 2,152 Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: May 2002 Posts: 2,152 | One other question? Why does he think the trays are causing misalignment of the teeth. They are only supposed to be used once a day for a maximum of 30 minutes preferably before going to bed. How long is he leaving them in?
Take care, Eileen
---------------------- Aug 1997 unknown primary, Stage III mets to 1 lymph node in neck; rt ND, 36 XRT rad Aug 2001 tiny tumor on larynx, Stage I total laryngectomy; left ND June 5, 2010 dx early stage breast cancer June 9, 2011 SCC 1.5 cm hypo pharynx, 70% P-16 positive, no mets, Stage I
| | | | Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 142 Senior Member (100+ posts) | Senior Member (100+ posts) Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 142 | Ok I am totally confused. I use the 1.1 and I am being told not to use it but 10 minutes max per day. I swear it is actually making my teeth whiter. As to whiting, both my Business Partner and I had our teeth whitened several years ago. Within a year, this was BC (Before Cancer) both of us started having to get multiple crowns. Of course the dentist said there was no connection. I will not ever do it again.
55 12/17/09 High Grade Muceopidermoid Carcinoma Alerted by Largo my Mini Schnauzer 1/18/10 Clr PET 1/27/10 Surgery found Perineural invasion 3/22/10 Began Rad 05/05/10 34 rads 8/19/10 Clr Pet Scan 12/13/10 Clr Ultra sound/biopsy 5/4/11 MRI Clear 8/2/11 All Clear 5/25/12 All Clear 6/3/2016 All Clear
| | | | Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) | Senior Patient Advocate Patient Advocate (old timer, 2000 posts) Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,311 | We have had this discussion before and found "us people" were told everything from am to pm and 3 mins to 30 mins but he really needs to get back to his dentist and let the dentist answer his/your questions because I doubt he will listen to you or to us.
David
Age 58 at Dx, HPV16+ SCC, Stage IV BOT+2 nodes, non smoker, casual drinker, exercise nut, Cisplatin x 3 & concurrent IMRT x 35,(70 Gy), no surgery, no Peg, Tx at Moffitt over Aug 06. Jun 07, back to riding my bike 100 miles a wk. Now doing 12 Spin classes and 60 outdoor miles per wk. Nov 13 completed Hilly Century ride for Cancer, 104 miles, 1st Place in my age group. Apr 2014 & 15, Spun for 9 straight hrs to raise $$ for YMCA's Livestrong Program. Certified Spin Instructor Jun 2014.
| | | | Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 507 "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) | "Above & Beyond" Member (500+ posts) Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 507 | The fluoride that tends to stain some people's teeth is Stannous Fluoride (usually about 0.4%).
The fluoride that does not seem to stain the teeth is Sodium Fluoride (usually about 1.1%).
I was switched early on due to a severe staining problems. I was also told the Sodium Fluoride is as effective overall, because we apply it so frequently.
The brand of Sodium Fluoride I use is call Neutra Maxx 5000 GEL, but there are a lots of brands that should be equivalent.
I get mine for $12 per a 4.3oz squeeze bottle at the Cancer Center's Prosthodontist office. Also my regular dentist has told me he can get it for me.
I have been using my trays for two years with no cavities - 10min, no food or drink for 1hr, usually at night (but not always).
Don TXN2bM0 Stage IVa SCC-Occult Primary FNA 6/6/08-SCC in node<2cm PET/CT 6/19/08-SCC in 2nd node<1cm HiRes CT 6/21/08 Exploratory,Tonsillectomy(benign),Right SND 6/23/08 PEG 7/3/08-11/6/08 35 TomoTherapy 7/16/08-9/04/08 No Chemo Clear PET/CT 11/15/08, 5/15/09, 5/28/10, 7/8/11
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