My dentist gave me a bottle of "Butler Protect Neutral Flouride Foam" to use with my dental trays and it only takes 1-4 minutes for a treatment, tastes like mint, is pH neutral, so doesn't burn. It is 0.9% Neutral flouride and can only be obtained from a dentist (professional use only) -you won't find it in the drugstore . Easy to use - pump the foam into the dental tray and insert.

My dentist paints my teeth every two weeks( with floride). When I asked about the tray he told me they don't do that any more. Over time it will be less and less.

I'm not sure why your dentist would tell you that trays and Rx strength fluoride are not used any more. It is still the normal protocol at the 4 largest cancer centers in the US. 5 years out I still have my trays, and while I am not a diligent as I was in the beginning, I still use them 3-4 times a week.

My husband is being fitted for these next week. I was interested in when and how long you wear them. I assumed you wore them while you slept. Is that the case? It sounds like you only wear them a few min. a day. Are there different types of treatment?
Thanks,
Cheryl

They are clear soft plastic and you only leave them on for 1-4 minutes (at least those are the instructions for Butler "Protect"). Protect is prescription only, so I get mine from my dentist.
It is a foam type of product in a container with a pump. I just place a little of the foam in the tray and slip it on the teeth. You should store the trays on the mold to prevent them from distorting. I have heard that there are OTC (over the counter)flouride treatment products also -I have no personal experience with them. Protect is about as brainless and painless as it gets and doesn't leave a bad aftertaste.

I use the over the counter stannous flouride and leave it in the trays for approx. 15 minutes every night. The trays were made by the dentist at M.D Anderson and I follow their protocol.

Danny G.

Just and addendum for anyone new to the forum:

Many health insurance carriers will cover the cost of dental trays if their use is for cancer-related treatment such as radiation.

Kim

Thanks for the info about insurance companies carrying the costs of the trays. I found out tommorrow about my biopsy (95% sure it is cancer) and if I have to have radiation, that is one of the first things I want to do for myself (besides getting a PEG tube). THanks for the info! I was wondering but wasn't going to ask.
Desiree'

Desiree,
I am one of the big proponents of PEG tubes. I still have mine 8 months after treatment, although most people get rid of them a lot sooner. But I would not rush to get one. I waited until 2 or 3 weeks after treatment began when swallowing began to become a problem. Putting it in is an easy and quick procedure.
I am still hoping that your results are negative.

Danny G.

Just one more fluoride story for what it's worth. My fluoride is prescription and the instructions are to place one drop in each tooth space and wear though the night (the specially molded trays). I did this faithfully throughout treatment and afterward when my mouth was completely dry, but less often now as a good deal of saliva has returned, for which I am extremely grateful and yes, I know how lucky I am.
Joanna
P.S. Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, I won't have to go through this again, but if I do, I will line up to get the PEG, which I am convinced beyond a doubt is the one thing that allowed me to heal so quickly and get back to real life.

Hi All - i am intrigued by the "flouride foam" stuff - currently JC is using a flouride gel in his trays and each and every time he puts them in he gags as it is very thick, and it seems to get worse as time goes on. the doc said that he would only have to continue with the flouride trays for about 6 months post treatment, but i am noticing here that alot of people are still using them way beyond that - could the doc be "fibbing" to us? guess time will tell, eh? think i will call our dentist and see if we can get the foam as opposed to the gel on his next refill - thanx for the info.

Robin

I HATE my fluoride gel...it tastes like s___t, and I can't rinse the taste out of my mouth for half an hour after using it. But I still do use it 5 years out from treatment. Not every day like the docs at MDACC wanted, but at least 3 nights a week for 15 minutes at a time. The truth is that never again will you have the protective benefits of saliva, and all those good enzymes in it. You will also have some decalcification of the teeth, though not visible to the naked eye, that leaves them vulnerable to dental caries as well. Fluoride is the only defense against serious problems, along with a religious involvement with your toothbrush and floss, interdental wooden picks ( J&J) and anything else you can do to keep those pearly whites free from plaque and bacteria. I even get my teeth professionally cleaned every 8 weeks, and with all that I do, she still scrapes off bunches of... mung. For radiated patients the loss of a tooth to periodontal disease from poor hygiene could lead to an open non hgealing socket, or extraction which could lead to osteoradionecrosis, a very bad hombre.

The foam is a snap to use, tastes decent and doesn't make you gag (which I seem to do a lot of these days). It is prescription only so your dentist will either have to write a prescription or procure it for you (like my dentist did). It leaves no bad aftertaste either. It is called Butler "Protect" Nuetral Flouride Foam. The instructions for use state to leave on for 1-5 minutes. No rinse or drinking any liquids for 30 minutes after that. My radiation oncologist told me that the threat of ORN is for life. Extractions will be dangerous forever.

well i am definately going to check into the flouride foam for jc. they also gave him a very nasty mouthrinse called "chlorhexidine gluconate" which really messed with his taste buds before they went south. i later found out that the soda/salt/water solution works just as well - so he does the soda/salt/water combo during the day the nasty tasting stuff before his gel trays at night - which between the chlorhexidine and the gel trays he is not a very happy camper! (go figure huh) thanx for the info!!

Robin

I am eight months out of treatment and still cannot use the flouride trays due to the burning that makes my tounge sore for a couple of days after each use. I do have some saliva(thank God and Ethyol)and am able to eat some very spicy foods, but I try the flouride every couple of weeks to see if I can tolerate it or not without success. Has anyone else had this problem? I wonder if the Foam would help if it is the same flouride strength as the gel?

Weldon M.

The foam is a neutral pH so it might work for you.
Ask your dentist if this is what he uses - maybe you can sample it somehow before buying it. My dentist gifted me with mine (I was his 12th patient) so I have no idea how much it costs. By the way, you don't swallow the stuff and there is very little that seeps out from the trays.

Oh. and the foam is a presciption product - I can't imagine that it would be weaker than the gel which is OTC. I'll contact my dentist and ask him.

i have a call into the dentist to check on the foam to see if i can get it for JC - it sounds sooo much better than the gel he is currently getting - its worth a try. the gel he is using now is also prescription. guess i just have to wait for the dentist to call back......

well what do ya know, the phone just rang and it was the dentist - he is going to call in the prescription for the foam - said it was just as good as the gel, but needed to also check to see if it was available! pretty cool!!

Robin

Hi folks,

I do not want to make a big (as in paranoid) deal but floride is fairly toxic if ingested. My suggestion is that we be particularly careful about even small quantities being swallowed.

Many of the OTC products we have been talking about weren't intended to be used daily. I am worried that the prescription versions are stronger and therefore even more care should be excercised.


Also Stannous Floride is listed as a potential carcinogen, and the debate about the effects both good and bad about Floride in general, gives me cause to be extra super cautious.

I don't want this to turn into our own version of debate, but if you look around (and skip the radical sites) you will find some interesting information on floride, especially floridated water, out there.

Happy teeth!

I have an MSDS Material Data Safety Sheet and a product description -if any are interested, email me privately - I will scan and send it to you. It is not "stannous fouride" per se but described as "0.9% flouride ion from sodium flouride in a pH neutral base". The "indications for use" recommend 1-2 treatments a year or more often as recommended by the dentist. There are no known contraindications. Since it has a high concentration of flouride ion, gloves and safety glasses are recommended for clinicians. IF ingested it can cause nausea, vomiting, stupor and weakness. (I already have all of those already so I wouldn't know) lol

Mark, I checked on the NIH, State of California and OSHA websites for their list of known and/or suspected carcinogens and/or mutigens and stannous flouride (or just plain flouride) was not on it. So where did you get that information?

And don't tell anybody that Cisplatin and Tamoxifen (and also ionizing radiation for that matter) ARE known carcinogens. One of lifes little ironies -to get cancer from the cancer treatment!

Hi gary, Where I saw it was an MSDS sheet for one of the products but not a brand I am familiar with. Tonight I tried to find it again from home and so far I can't. I'll look in my browser history at work and repost it here tomorrow.

I must admit as I was looking for that particular item I have found that the whole subject of floride (especially floridated water) is heavily debated. My interest is not to take part in that debate here but to suggest caution MAY be in order. It is facinating though if you have some time do some searching.

There is no debate about the stuff being toxic if ingested so be careful.

Hi Mark,
Yeah -you're definitely NOT supposed to ingest it. I wonder how that works with drinking water -hence the debate, which I won't get into either. I drink mainly bottled water myself. The foam stuff leaves very little residue after the trays are put on the teeth, and with mondo dry mouth, it just hasn't been a problem.

I am definitely going to call my dentist and give it a try unless he knows something different!

I am definitely going to call my dentist and give it a try unless he knows something different!

Gary, Here is the MSDS that I was talking about. As I read it I am thinking that the carcinogen it is showing is actually the Sodium Saccharin!
http://www.essix.com/professional/msds/tech_msds_gel.html

I am not suggesting we stop using floride, just that we be careful.

I think what everyone here needs to remember, and I have written extensively about this in previous posts, is VOLUME OF EXPOSURE. The government is now telling us that saw dust.... yes, wooden sawdust, is a carcinogen. But you need a lifetime of working with it without protection to have it be of consequence to you. We know that nickel is a carcinogen, yet it is in all of our coins that we handle everyday. It is in the plating on tons of the silverware we eat with and put in our mouths etc. I could create a list that would fill this whole page of listed carcinogens that at some level you come in contact with almost every day. But you are unlikely to be exposed to enough volume of any one of them for it to be of consequence, unless you work intimately with it in your vocation 8 hours a day. Please consider the exposure levels of all these things you would like to list as risks to your life, and consider that the government and other institutions in their testing of some of these things, gave the lab animals levels that in the normal course of our lives we would never be exposed to. Many of these carcinogens when they are bound to another molecule are less harmful. Fluoride is one of many that this occurs with. Non-bonded fluoride does not exist in oral care products. It has other molecules such as sodium (and many others) attached to it. As to fluoride, it has been in our water for a long time, but again not pure fluoride. Considering that America consumes as much, if not more, soft drinks as it does water, there is a whole 'nuther argument that could be started here as to which is most likely to be of a health concern to you. You don't want to be swallowing your fluoride treatments; if you do, you'll probably throw it up anyway since your stomach isn't going to like this stuff. But the amounts that we consume, even as oral cancer survivors, are likely not going to change our lives. Getting osteoradionecrosis after losing teeth to caries and periodontal disease is a much greater risk for us. Fluoride combined with good oral hygiene will prevent this. So look at your carcinogen lists and find bonded fluorides on them, and then look at what safe levels of those are, estimate your volume of exposure in the next 50 years, and you will likely find that it is a non issue. You may be more logical to consider this is a choice between two evils...which one has the most likelihood of occurring in your life time, fluoride poisoning, (or even more remotely a cancer caused by fluoride) or ORN?