Ok - I'll try to make this concise because I know I have a tendancy to go long. Dan is over-weight by about 50+ pounds. He has been struggling for a while to improve that number and we had started eating more healthy and he has started exercising. Since the cancer dx and surgeries that has pretty much gone out the window and he took to heart the "bulking up" advice and ate like a fiend. He has been pretty fatigued, but the exercise has continued - just not as intense. This Tuesday as I told you guys in another thread - he lost 5 pounds at his weekly check-up. I know this is because eating is now a chore and he is only eating because he knows he has too so no more extra portions, snacks, etc. And of course because his body is now working so hard. Today I tried to convince him to try one of the Boost Plus or Ensure Plus drinks I have in the fridge. I asked him to use them to supplement his diet with extra calories betweeen meals. He said no. I said why and he said because I want to lose weight. He doesn't think the 5 pounds is a big deal at all and is not worried. I know my husband and took the approach that typically works best with him. Calm - so I went through the whole spiel - reminded of all the doctors have said, what I have read, what you guys have said, etc. the gist of it being this is going to get worse still and you don't need to be flippant about the weight and this is NOT the time to be concerned about a diet - right now we need to be concerned about cancer butt kicking. I also told him that his symptoms will get worse and his hearing could take longer if he doesn't take in enough calories for energy.

The help I need from you guys is reference info or links or actual legitmate data / studies that talk about this and show that what he is doing is detrimental to his health. The antedoctal convversations don't seem to be working. I've searched around for several hours, but I am struggling. I think I just can't get the right keyword combination because everything I try just brings up all the stuff about what you need to do, not what happens when you lose weight.

I love him, but this is when I want to beat the hell out of him!!

Thanks in advance for the help.

Tell him he doesn't have to try - he WILL lose weight. If he loses too much then it can slow the healing process considerably. He really doesn't want to extend his suffering does he!?!?!

I can tell him first hand what happens. In one week I lost 17 pounds from nasuea, diariha (bad spelling), and fatigue. I basically got up took a shower went to radiation, went home and back to bed. Since I was without a caregiver, Im lucky to be here at all. I ended up in the hospital for a week. This was at about my 6th week of treatment. Again, at 2 weeks after treatments ended from nasuea I ended up in the hopsital this time for 5 days. My mindset was similar to your husbands, (it wont hurt me to lose a couple pounds), boy was I wrong. Luckily I had some weight to lose, but not so rapidly as it made me feel so much worse. Im 6 months out and still dont eat properly, so still I struggle with keeping weight on. This is something your husband needs to not worry about, he needs to get as many calories as possible for his strength.

Tell him to just listen to what we say because we have been there and frankly he has no idea what he's up against. I tried to do the daily calorie thing but like many I couldn't keep up when the tough period came and I lost 30% of my body weight and I was at my ideal weight when Tx started.

It most likely will get much worse than it is now and believe me he will loose weight and it just doesn't stop when the rad is completed. It took me well over a year to start gaining weight back.

Michelle,

Perhaps some of our posters (Brian, Gary, Marcus, others??) can chime in with more technical info regarding the importance of nutrition or the negatives when it is not optimal during treatment. If not, you just may have to "beat the hell out of him!"

Bill had at least 40 pounds to give as well and he lost that even with me feeding him religiously 6 times a day thru his PEG.
His most significant loss was post treatment. The weight loss will happen without any work on Dan's part.

Sorry he is being so "muley headed" as my grandmother would say. I was so thankful for Bill's sweet and compliant
nature when he was sick...thanks for reminding me.

Deb

I have nothing technical to tell him, but I lost50 lbs and was doing my best to eat,Man, get some food into you and try some of the Carnation VHC, it's loaded with calories and is the only thing keeping me moving. Give your wife a break , she has enough to worry about. Hell Man, I wish I had one worrying about me and my health.

Thank you guys very much and Jim thank you for putting it in perspective!! Today is our long day with chemo and radiation and I play to have a serious talk with him as I'm sure the docs, nurses and dietician will do as well!!!!!!

I printed these post out so I will be sure to have my "ammo" with me when we talk

Not to "one up" anybody but I lost 61 lbs - I looked like a Nazi holocaust death camp survivor. It's pretty weird when you don't recognize yourself in the mirror.

5 years+ and I have put about 40 back on.

I have to turn the Ensure and Boost commercials off when I see them on TV - makes me want to puke. If I ever have to go back on a liquid diet again I'll shoot myself... I got by with Carnation Instant Breakfast. They didn't have the VHC stuff when I was treated. That other crap just gagged me. I did much better with the powder mix in milk, I would add Hagen Daz to it for a little extra caloric bump.

It may be "cool" to be able to drop weight that easily. But as Gary said, you do not have to try it WILL happen. .. and you may get more than you bargain for.
The idea is to support your battle and starving yourself at this point just makes you weaker.

M

Thanks everyone for what you've told me so far. I've been sharing this with him throughout the day and I had his chemo nurse talk with him about it too. It sparked a good conversation between us. He feels like he's doing great because even though his throat is killing him and he has no taste he is still eating 3 normal meals a day. His snacks consist of V8, an apple or orange or jello. He thinks that is enough calories and if the weight still comes off, it still comes off and he won't be upset about it. I told him yes I was very happy and proud of him for still eating the 3 meals, but I want him to have more calories. Even though he's eating 3 meals a day since it is now a chore or just fuel and there is no enjoyment his portions are a lot smaller than pre-tx and he has no interest in things like the salad or bread or dessert. He's still walking on his treadmill about 1/2 an hour every other day and running the business (hands-on not office work) so he's pretty active. I'm going to start sneaking them in where I can with more cheese, butter, etc. Another thought I had (since he won't drink the supplement drinks yet) is I have some regular Carnation IB that I use for chocolate milk for David if he's not eaten well that day. Maybe I can trick Dan into drinking a glass of "chocolate milk". I had hoped to make milkshakes, but ice creat tastes horrible he said. It's odd to me how somet things have not taste and some actually taste bad.
Anyway thanks for listening and I still welcome any words of advice, etc. I read him all these posts!!!

He may be one of the very few that tough their way through treatments, and in the process lose a ton of body weight. While there are exceptions to everything, for the most part he will perhaps prove he is a tough guy, but he will heal slower than necessary. The recovery period of a month for every week of treatment is a common denominator. His hardheadedness will only cause that period to last longer than necessary, allow him to be more susceptible to every bug, flu, virus, that comes his way while his immune system is not up to par.

For some people logic does not make a difference. Let's hope that his decisions do not compromise his healing to much.

Hi Michelle
Maybe you can try a different approach.

Craig is barely eating 3 meals a day and won't eat the whole meal just pick off what he can stomach. I've told him that he has to supplement with the Boost Plus because he isn't getting enough vitamins!

As he is barely able to swallow his chemo meds (let alone a big 'ol horsepill-sized vitamin) he is taking the Boost as his vitamin pill equivalent to make up for any vitamin deficiencies.

I also mentioned the possibility of getting scurvy if he doesn't get enough Vitamin C and that his teeth will fall out as a result(something he fears) and showed him the side of the Boost where it lists all the vitamins it contains including Vitamin C.

He's not giving me much trouble with this anymore. He's drinking at least one Boost Plus a day.

Maybe this might work for your hubby?

..oh, no! not ANOTHER Superman! Yeah, Buzz was THE MAN....Before beginning IMRT/Chemo, he was determined NOT to get PEG tube (those were for 'sissies')...then we met a guy in the waiting room who was about half way through his tx WITHOUT a PEG...Buzz was horrified because the guy looked like a POW survivor! He immediately changed his mind, got the PEG and STILL has lost about 50 lbs (down to approx. 145 now). Not only was he doing feedings, there were only TWO days during tx when Buzz couldn't eat three meals.
Almost six months out of tx now...he eats like a horse, drinks Boost/Ensure/VHC, but still gains no weight!
(On the other hand I have gained more than 15 lbs while trying to 'fatten him up'!
Keep harping...he may thank you one day!

Lois

Brian - thanks for the straight talk

Marina - good idea. I'm going to try that approach tomorrow.

Lois - thanks for the commiseration. I am working hard on him and hopefully I will get through that thick head of his.

I'm just going to have to be more tough with him and take the gloves off. I love him and I'm sorry he's sick, but damn if I am going to sit by quietly and let him make stupid descions that will hurt thim. That would be like letting David touch the candle flame.

Thanks to all of you!

Michelle:

You mentioned adding carnation instant breakfast to his milk. I drink chocolate milk which is 400 calories a pint. To add more caloies I add a scoop of the instant breakfast which makes it now 530 calories for the pint. I do taste the difference, and its thicker too. But it sure tastes alot better than boost or ensure. Since your hubby's taste isnt quite what it should be, wouldnt hurt to give it a try.

When the going gets tough, Carnation Instant Breakfast VHC is the way to go with 560 balanced calories in an 8 oz can. It only costs about $1.30 a can and some have gotten their insurance to cover it.

My brother added the dry carnation breakfast to a lot of things - ice cream, whole milk, cereal, etc. He also drank lots and lots of the VHC that David mentioned.

Jean

This is what worked for me, once my taste buds "went bad" then went out, and carried me all the way through:

Whey protein powder mixed in milk to assure 1gm protein for every lb of pre-treatment body weight.

Cream of Wheat swimming in butter for breakfast when I could get it down.

Daily multivitamin/multimineral (I tried Boost for the vitamins but it was "oily" tasting to me and after a while I couldn't stand it told my wife to throw the rest out.)

Liquid L-Glutamine every morning during tx.

As much water or sports drinks as I could stomach (toward the end so little that the MO's office would have to "fill me up" with liquids even in between chemo sessions.)

If I could eat anything else (my problem was nausea, not mouth pain during tx) I did, but it wasn't ever much.

The RO said I was in the "top 5%" insofar as showing little adverse impact from the radiation, the tech people who administered the tx agreed, and gave the whey protein the credit.

Like I said, it worked for me, but check with your doctors before trying it. I stayed away from the nutritonists recommendation to "get calories any way you can," and lost about 30 pounds during treatment (from 210 down to 180.)I am stable now at 200 (21 months after tx ended).