Hi my name is liz,and today i am posting on the forum from a whole new perspective.

I have been in agony for three days with tooth ache,and this morning i had to ring round every dentist in the area to try and get seen as an emergency.I am not registered with a dentist so it is really hard to get any one to see you urgently,but i did manage to get an appointment for 11am with a new practice in leeds.
I was seen by a lovely doctor called Thomas who explained i would have to register with the practise and have a full mouth examination with x-rays as well as what ever treatment i needed for my tooth ache.Part of this examination included a full oral cancer screen which he did even though i told him i had had one done only two weeks ago.When he was finished and had done the x-rays,he extracted my bad tooth and i went home minus a tooth and all the pain!!

At 1.45 pm my mobile phone rang and it was the Dentist's nurse asking how i was,(surprise no. 1)

She then went on to say the dentist wanted me to go back straight away as he needed to discuss something he spotted on the x-ray,and when i explained that would be difficult she insisted it was very important for me to go back at 3.30 as the dentist needed to speak to me face to face,to discuss a few matters.

Mum and i duly rocked up at the dentist obviously wondering what the hell was going on.

Shock number 2 coming.The x-rays were fine,but he made me sit in his chair while he closely examined tthe left side of my mouth.When he did the oral cancer screen the dentist had noticed i had an area of hyperkeratosis on my gum where i had a double extraction 5 years ago.I knew about this because the dentist who did the oral screen two weeks ago commented on it and said it looked a bit sore.What he also saw was a white area on the gum which he had beeen chewing over during his lunch hour and had decided he wanted another look at.Once he had finished prodding and poking he very quietly explained to me that he had said nothing when he origonally examined me because firstly he was aware of how much pain i was in with the bad tooth,and secondly when i had told him about Robin,he was reluctant to alarm me.He had wrestled with the dilema and felt he had to look again and then tell me of his concerns.

Bottom line he has referred me to the maxillo-facial unit in leeds for an urgent biopsy which he says will be done before i go on holiday.

He was so apologetic but said he couldnt in all conscience not do this as i was in a high risk category(smoker and drinker)and although he was fairly confident it would be ok,that if it was cancer i should only need surgery to my gum and jaw as the changes were likely to be very early stages.!!!

Jerry and Mike feel free to jump in here and reassure me .

I just couldn't stop myself saying to him that i had heard that before when Robins Surgeon looked us in the eye and said he ha a 90% chance of a 10 year survival.
I then told him there was no way on this earth that i could walk this path again.

Then it went quiet and he looked so distressed i felt sorry for the poor man. I thought long and hard about what i would say to anyone who came on to the forum with the same dillema.It was a no brainer practice what you preach lady.

So i am waiting for a telephone call to go for a biopsy.
My mum is in pieces and my kids are hysterical,but i feel calm and collected.This is not cancer i know it isnt .It cant be. Life just couldn't be that cruel,it couldn't could it???

Liz, Thank God for your dentist quick action....oh my, I am hoping it is NOTHING! Carol

Liz, what a nightmare.. you have certainly had more that your fair share recently.
I, like Carol, am sincerely hoping this is false alarm. But, thank goodness the NHS has Dentists of this calibre... he is to be commended.
Take Care
Marica

Okay Liz---deep breath!
Sounds like an EXCELLENT dentist, who has taken on board your situation, doesn't want to worry you unnecessarily (that's lousy spelling, I think!), but is taking his duties very seriously.
I'll try the 'LIz's advice to others' bit FOR you!

" Read the boards about all the people who've been worried about lumps/bumps/patches and see how many have turned out to be NON-cancerous--lots lately!"

But hell, my 'urgent' MRI and biopsy didn't happen very fast, this being England, but I do know that Leeds has an excellent reputation--it's also a teaching hospital.
I have a friend with a cleft palate who has recurrent surgery there and when I was facing the possibility of major surgery to my jaw, told me about the wonderful results she'd seen at Leeds maxioll-facial unit.

Personal opinion is dentist is making sure that history does NOT repeat itself--he's not negligent!

If you haven't been 'summoned' before next weekend, you sure do need a day away!!

Brenda

God Bren i was sooooo close to ringing you tonight.I so needed someone to talk to.
I WILL NOT believe this is anything more than an excellent dentist taking his responsibilities very seriously.And so i will go along with him.

I sort of get the idea it is something like the reason we have pap smears every few years.It may show up a pre cancerous change that may need watching.Am i right jerry or Mike?

Thanks for the reassurance about the Leeds Dental Hospital not sure if it is part of Jimmys or Leeds General.

You are right lol i will need a day out by next weekend.He is sending the request under the two week government guide lines so i should be done by then.

Liz: Nothing I can say will calm you, but you must know that my heart was in my throat as I read your post. You're going straight to the top of my list...and you know what that means!

Our thoughts are with you...WHY must you live SO far away?

Love, Lois

Liz,
I understand your anxiety about the situation and would not wish these circumstances on my worst enemy. First, have a big hug an take a breath.
I'm not overly enthusiastic about the way this was handled by this dentist. If he performed a full examination and oral cancer screening he should have made you aware of the condition of your mouth and oral cavity and any and all conditions and/or concerns he had as a result of his examinations prior to commencing any treatment. In Canada we have many different types of examinations and a specific code for each. If, in fact a complete examination and oral cancer examination were performed then i have an issue. If he only performed a specific or emegency exam ( these are done to address the immedite problem and do not include evaluation and or comment about the patient's whole mouth. Remember, I am speaking about Canada and the regulations under which I practice.
I assume that from your above post that you did in fact recieve a comprehensive exam and oral cancer screening. In Canada it is required to inform the patient about all abnormal findings, possible outcomes and treatment options that are available as well as outlining the treatment that I would suggest. This is informed consent.
To call a patient after the fact and be dishonest about the reason that they need to return is not only unprofessional, but unethical.
I hate to say this about a colleague, but he messed up. You have options and avenues you can pursue if you want to deal with this issue.

It is not abnormal for the gumes to become hyperkeratotic if teeth are not present and not replaced. Eating pushes food onto the gum tissue and causes the hyperkeratosis, similar to callouses forming on the hands due to repeated trauma. This is the bodies way of protecting the underlying tissues.
This dentist told you that the area looked sore...was it or has it every been sore?
Did he explain why he felt it could be serious and why an urgent biopsy was required?
All of the mishandling aside,I think you should have the biopsy just to ease your mind.
I know you don't want to go down the path that would be before if this is something bad. I do know however that if you have to that you are strong enough to do it and that you will for your families sake. You are a strong woman and an inspiration to many of us here. I'm here if you need me.
I'm sending you my personal e-mail address and phone numbers if you want to talk. Call me anytime.
You are in my thoughs and prayers Liz.

Mike

Thankyou Lois,and your prayers are much appreciated.
love liz

Mike thanks so much for your reply.i have suffered with very sore gums for most of my life as i am one of those idiots who tend to scrub the hell out of my teeth with smokers toothpaste and a hard bristle brush to get the coffee stains off!!Then they bleed like mad and i cant brush them properly for days.

On the bottom left of my mouth i have had my wisdom tooth and a large double tooth removed so i have got nothing there but gum and yes it gets very sore and raw feeling a lot of the time particularly if i eat sharp food like crisps or cream crackers and after brushing.It is the side i always chew my food on and i often have pain like a tooth ache then wonder how it can feel like that when i havent got any teeth there.I always put it down to the fact that i had a huge abscess under the tooth before it was removed,and then suffered a dry socket infection afterwards.I use corsydl mouthwash when it is very sore and this usually helps.
When i went to the dentist yesterday the gum was extremely sore,(but not as bad as the side where the bad tooth was!!)and very raw feeling ,but he said it was the white patch on it which i cant say i have ever noticed that was his reason for calling me back.
I am terrified of dentists Mike amd i am sure my petrification at the prospect of needles prior to the extraction he did was his reason for being reluctant to upset me any further and he removed the tooth in just about the most painless manner imaginable.At the moment the extraction site is MUCH less painful than the offending piece of gum,which i just cant stop prodding at with my tongue.

He did a full exam and even showed me the x-rays and talked me through what he could see on them, which is why i was so bemused when the nurse rang and said it was something he had spotted on the films . You must take in too account that i was in agony with toothache at the time and shaking like a jelly about the treatment he was
about to carry out.

Mike i will be grateful if you can hold my hand through the next few days although my whole instinct is telling me this is NOT a cause for panic and i feel eerily calm.
I dont doubt the calmness will vanish when the phone call comes.lol

liz

Liz,
In my experience soft tissue changes ( hypekeatosis ) do not show up on x-rays. I would be lying if I said this guy was working within the normal acceptable standard of practice.
I'm here, lean on me if you feel I can help, I'm here for you.

Cheers,

Mike

Sorry Mike i obviously misled you.He did the x-rays prior to the tooth extraction and when he showed them to me he said they were fine except for an area of infection under the tooth that was bad.Thats how i knew when his nurse rang and said he wanted to see me because of something he had spotted on the x-rays that something wasnt right

liz

LIZ

OH Man ..I cant even imagine what it was like for you hearing those words. But like you know and we all do ( yet hard to relax) take a deep breathe and wait for the biopsy .

You have so much knowledge and sometimes that can be even scarier , we know too much . BUT I am thinking of you and I agree with Mike in that he should have never let you walk out of his office , but he did call you back . It is best to get it checked and I think you agree. PLease know that my thoughts are with you . I wish you could be closer so we could actually be there . I wish everyone was close enough .

Shar

Liz,

I will be thinking about you and sending good thoughts your way.

I think you are in better hands with this dentist than Rob's. He seems very human to me in being concerned about your health and your emotional state. It is nice to me to read about a doctor/dentist who sees you as a person instead of just a symptom. Even though he sent you home for a couple hours, it sounds like he never stopped thinking about you. You're probably still in his thoughts today. (Mike, I'm not trying to disagree with you from a protocol standpoint...I'm just sharing my thoughts from a patient/personal perspective).

I'm sure he is being super cautious. Liz, wasn't it you who wrote to me when I was frustrated that both of my kids had to have CT scans for swollen lymph glands that you thought it always best to err on the side of extra procedures and over caution?

I think gut instinct is a powerful thing. I can feel your fear, but also your belief that this isn't cancer. Hold onto that belief as you go through the procedures.

I didn't think my kids lymph nodes were anything to worry about, although I did pick up on the doctors' fears. I went ahead with the procedures and all was well. I hated putting each of them through the ordeal, but in the end everyone had peace of mind.

It's an oft-repeated line but it worth repeating...it's not cancer until the biopsy says so. With that logic, right now you are cancer free. And, there's a good chance you will be cancer free after the biopsy too.

My you have had so much to deal with this year.

Many, many good thoughts to you my dear friend. Whatever the news, we will rejoice with you, we will support you, we will be here for you...just as you have been here for each of us through our times of joy and/or concern.

So cookey---how are you doing this weekend after all the good advice you've had???
Still feeling shitty and scared, I bet, and hoping for a phone call on Monday---which we both know might not happen cos this is NHS, England!
You have my number---NEVER do 'I nearly rang you'---just DO IT!!!
Obviously, from your posts, your mum knows and is supporting---what about Lynnne and co---do they know and are 'there' for you??? If not---GET THEM THERE!
I'm here babe, we all are, ring or email any time, I'm sleeping lots at the moment--still blaming it on jet-lag, not cancer! But always know, I'm available! Roll on next Sunday girl!
Love Bren x

Liz,
Sending lots of love your way.
Donna

Liz,
Sending lots of love your way.
Donna

Hi there Bren

Funnily enough i dont feel shitty or scared,i was much more scared about the lump in my neck than this.It is the same side funnily enough and perhaps because i had the scan ,and they covered the area under my jaw and up to my ear and found it clear,is the reason i am quite calm.I dont really mind if they cant do the biopsy till i get back from overseas.

I think because i have read so much about hyperkeratosis,and lichus planus amd leukoplakia,and seen so many come on the boards and go away again after good news it has given me a much more positive mind set.

Mum was with me when i went to the dentist and of course insisted on going with me when he called me back,and i rang the kids straight away,so yes every one is on board,and Lynne and Philip both phoned yesterday to check up on me .

I am lying in bed listening to the rain and wind battering against my windows and praying that the forecast for next Sunday is better.

You get all the rest you need and dont worry about me i am good so far.

love liz

Liz,

Just saw your post, can't get my head round it, how fab you are to reach out and help me when you have so much else going on.

Pull up the duvet

Andrea

Liz,

As always, Mike has given you good dental advice and all our friends have chimed in as well. I really have nothing to add except that the bone in the area where you had the teeth out should be completely healed, even though you had an abcess and a dry socket.

I haven't been ignoring you. I got an email from Donna telling me that you were asking for help. I had just come home from spending three hours in the emergency room of Will's Eye Hospital in Philadelphia. Although I am having trouble seeing the computer well, I did look for a new post from you. I guess my vision was worse than I thought as I missed this thread. I haven't been back to the forum till now. I had a vitreous detachment and I have an eye full of floaters and specks of blood floating around. I see my local retinologist tomorrow. Not sure if I can work until this clears up.

I look forard to hearing good results from your biopsy.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry
look after that eye.!!

liz

OMG Liz, does life ever cut you a break? I was just so happy for you with your trip and new job to look forward to and now this. Here's hoping the biopsy comes back negative and all is well. But remember, you are in the high risk group, so be certain to see this dentist on a regular basis to make certain all stays well. Remember Brian's slogan - early detection saves lives.

Take care,
Eileen

Thanks Eileen i fully intend to make sure i get regular check ups.Have to practice what i preach don't i?
love liz

Hospital appointment friday 7th december 9.45 am!!

hi cookey,
just read this post, and cant imagine how you must be feeling.
well as you said best to get it looked at for sure.
will be thinking of you for sure and hope all is well.

derek

Thanks Derek at least i dont have long to wait i guess friday will come quickly.

love liz

I will be thinking of you on Fri LIZ !!


((((((((HUGSSS)))))))))


SHAR

Liz
Like you knowing that you recently had a scan I'm not unduley worried about you (well I am but I'm not letting you know that). I've had an area for lukoplasia along my scar tissues for a long time and no-one seems worried, so as Mike sujests is you are chewing on that bit of gum it could just be trauma. Try some Difflam mouthwash abour

Hi helen
strange as this may seem,i had no reason whatsover to worry about it because i wasnt aware there was anything to worry about lol.I had a mouth screen done three weeks ago and though the dentist i saw then commented on the hyperkeratosis she said it was traumatic and caused caused by the chewing food on my gum.

This dentist has said he can see white patches on the gum which need investigating,and as i dont spend all day in front of the mirror looking in my mouth ,i guess i just have to take his word for it.
Yesterday after i had my dry socket stuffed with antibiotics and iodine i did suggest i leave the hospital appointment till i get back,and he was horrified,and when i got home the appointment was sitting on the mat.So thats that,but his reaction yesterday did make me feel a little nervous
great to have you back sweetie

love liz

Wahhhh! You and Bren are getting together on Sunday and the rest of us can't be there!
Just wanted to say, Liz, that you are in my thoughts every day. Sending hugs and love to you from this side of the pond!


Lois

hope all is o.k Liz.

derek

Hope you're back from the hospital and not too uncomfortable Liz! Been thinking of you all morning!

Love Brenx

All is well.Diagnosis traumatic hyperkeratosis with some infection.
surgeon said my dentist was very vigilant and did absolutely the right thing refferring me and to have regular check ups as these things can turn nasty ,but no follow up required at the moment.

love liz

Yippe..
Thank god all is OK..
If is it still sore try the Difflam mouthwash, should help it to heal..
Sunshine.. love and ugs
Helen

that is great news !!!!! phew !
no biopsy then ?
derek

No Derek,no biopsy.

good stuff, my tongue is black and blue yet !!

derek

Great news, Liz. Now enjoy that trip and have a Merry Christmas.

Take care,
Eileen

What a relief! Have a wonderful weekend!

Love, Lois

That is great Liz!! Now go and enjoy your holiday out on the beach. You deserve it.

Glad to hear the good news, Liz. You sure do deserve it.

Hava great weekend.

Jerry

Thanks you wonderful people.
I had Georgina with me for a couple of days, which was brilliant,she had to come to the hospital with me and Mum,but she was very good.My daughter flew out to join her hubby in Vegas yesterday and at 2am this morning she still hadnt arrived,She missed her connection in Amsterdam because of bad weather,and is stuck in Mineapolis waitng for the internal flight to Vegas.They are going to the big fight tomorrow night but she will sure be tired when she gets in.Georgina has gone to her Grandads for the weekend and the house is sure quiet.My suitcase is half packed and i am going to meet Brenfran tomorrow if she is well enough.Things are not that good with her at the moment so fingers crossed.
Next sunday all the family are getting together for a Christmas lunch in a local pub,my ex and his family are coming too so there will be 15 of us.It will be nice to get together before Mum and i fly out.And i can say goodbye to my two precious bundles.Georgina will turn two while i am away.

thanks again all
love liz

Liz,

I'm so happy that all went well at your medical appointments. I hope Brenda is well enough to meet, how fun for you two to get together.

I've been reading about your upcoming travel plans and I couldn't be more excited for you!!

Much love,