My brother just told me how little he weighs. (He lives in a neighboring State.) He is almost 6' tall and he weighs 148pounds. I am very concerned because he hasn't even had surgery yet. He cannot afford to lose weight.
He will be staying with us after he is released from the hospital. My goal is to have him maintain his weight and my hope is that he even gain a bit.
Does anyone have high calorie smoothies recipes, something that has more calories than Ensure or Boost?
My husband is thin too. The MD said the Peg has made a big difference for folks in maintaining a reasonable weight. He doesn't have it yet so others will have to tell you more about that.
There is carnation 560 that is loaded with calories. He tolerates it well but I read here that someone compared it to Elmers glue so I'm guessing the taste is not so great to some. And it's not cheap.
The dietician also recommended going to GNC. There are several products that have up to 2000 calories of this powder mixed with 16 oz of water.
We had never been to a GNC before and in our area at least it was filled with bodybuilders. I was betting those kids were wondering what us old folks were doing there...
Dave said that was also "ok."
The carnation very high calorie liquid cans are relatively cheap compared to prescription formula cans. They can be ordered for $44 a case right thru the Amazon link here. Whenever you wish to order anything from Amazon, please use this link as OCF gets a tiny donation every time its used. I use the Carnation VHC daily but its thru my peg tube, its vanilla flavored. Some on this board have relied on this product to get them successfully thru their treatments (Davidcpa).
Since your brother has not had treatments yet, he should be in the weight gain phase. He should be eating everything he possibly can right now. Battling cancer zaps your caloric intake. Its possible to consume 3000+ calories per day and not gain weight.
How about cheesecake, pancakes, puddings, yogurt, soups, milkshakes. Chocolate peanutbutter milkshakes if made right have at least 2000 calories each. I made a list of easy foods, here are the links:
http://oralcancersupport.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94621#Post94621http://oralcancersupport.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109499&page=1
Thank you, SusanW, I will check out GNC for the high calorie powder. Calories are where my concentration is now.
Christine,
You are a treasure.
I told my brother to eat his standard 3 meals a day and also drink 4 cans of Boost a day. He has been worried about his weight before he was diagnosed. He knows he has to gain before surgery.
This whole picture is slowly coming together. On March 13 I have an appointment at the VA with my oncologist. My husband is 100% disabled vet so I have access to the VA hospital. I am going to ask my onc if he can take my brother's case. It will make me feel more comfortable.
When I my tumor was typed I was strongly ER/PR positive and borderline Her2+. Almost all people with Her2+ have chemo along with a drug call Herceptin. We talked it over and decided to forgo chemo and Herceptin even though I am at high risk for recurrence.
I know that this onc will listen to my brother, explain the options to him and will support my brother's decision about treatment.
As usual the people on this board are so supportive and just plain helpful.
I'm a thin guy myself. 5'-6" and 130 at diagnosis. I gained ten pounds before treatment and then lost ten during treatment. I lost another 6 pounds after treatment and have gained back 4.
These are tough numbers for us thin guys. It's hard to explain but it just is.
I would make a shake of carnation instant breakfast, whole milk, ice cream, a bannana and a pack of soy protien to break up the monotiny of the Ensure, and carnation VHC formulas.
I only weighed 145 at Dx (5'7") and I got down to 120. Another problem to watch out for is constipation which is associated with dehydration which usually accompanies our severe weight lost.
Guys,
I have to admit, I am worried. I will watch out for dehydration. Having had surgery and pain meds, I thought about constipation.
The cancer is what it is. But, preparing to be his caregiver until he is finished with treatment is causing no end of stress. Once I know what he can swallow (if he can swallow), I'll start to calm down.
Notself
While it's all good advice, my suggestion to you is QUIT WORRYING ABOUT WEIGHT. Yes, take VHC or Ensure along with water, but my personal experience is that your brother can thrive (let alone survive) even if his BMI is "underweight". I am 5 foot 11 inches tall and weigh 134 pounds. Yet I can bench press 140 pounds and generally out work "normal" men of my age with zero difficulty. I shoveled snow for 4 hours at a stretch while my neighbors were exhausted much earlier even though they were younger and "healthy"
The key is lean muscle mass and instead of taking chances on unregulated and potentially contaminated and dangerous "body building" protein powders etc, just do a Pilates or Yoga class regularly AFTER TX.
My wife worried herself sick when I went from 177 pounds to 134 and the doctors did not help any, instead they compounded the problem. IMO our obese society's pervasive denial of how fat and flabby the majority of people are (including my Cancer center doctors) generates this false worry.
Life extension research comes down heavily in favor of substantial reduced calories (although it has only been proven in mice). The best thing you can do for your brother right now is to make sure he has a pre TX TSH test so he will know what his thryoid levels should be after TX. Now that is a real problem.
Charm
I went from 220 to 147 and after reagaing just a little strength I would and still do go nonstop with works around here of anytype. I just finished raking my yard and shoveling the last 2 ft of snow from my deck. At present I am 170 this morning. By the way I lost weight after losing the OC weight to losing 25 that I had regained due to Aortic Aneurysm surgery 13 months ago. I just have to watch and not use the lower stomache muscles with what ever I do. Don't want to blow the lower end of that thing that is waiting to be repaired.
Charm2017, Thanks for the talk down. I was creating problems where none as yet exists. Thanks for the possible mention of contamination in Bodybuilder powders. I will refrain from buying any. The last think a skinny person needs is a bout of diarrhea. The TSH test is on my list.
EzJim, How in the heck did you discover the Aortic Aneurysm? That must have made you wake up and take notice.
Notself. it was a one in a million reoccurence from surgery in 1999 to reapir the same aneurysm. They found it both times doing a CT Scan for somehting else. The 1st I was told about a year for surgery. Less than 3 month later I was golfing with my brother and started to hurt and feel bad. We went home and I called the Dr. He did a scan and then emergency surgery as it was ready to blow. My angels again saved me . I have been luckier than a duck looking for water and finding a large lake.
The 2nd one was just a routine after OC surgery scan by the same Dr for my esophagus as I still have the barrets which he scans every 3 months. He wouldn't touch this one and got me an appointment with a great Surgeon from Allegheny General in Pittsburgh, Pa. He could only do the upper half for fear of killing me . It is all weird and squiggly looking. He never saw anything like it before. He wanted to wait a year and try again. The year is up.
Notself
Glad you are relaxing a little bit, as you can see from both EZJim and myself, your brother's weight loss need not be as troublesome as you fear. That said, it's easy to say don't worry but hard to do. Perhaps you might like a cookbook designed for Cancer patients undergoing chemo and radiation. A friend sent it to us - they bought it off Amazon, and as Christine posted, be sure to use the OCF Amazon link before ordering if you do - so far my wife likes the recipes even though we need to use a Vitamix to fit them down my G tube
the book's name is The Cancer-Fighting Kitchen: Nourishing Big-Flavor Recipes She eats them too so they taste good,
Charm
I'm finding this thread so interesting. The nutritionist from Sloan was the one who recommended the powder from GNC to us. Dave had told her he was using the Carnation 560 to try and keep his calories up (his mouth is too sore to eat much). She recommended trying the powder in addition to the Carnation.
Every Dr we saw urged him to try to keep his calorie intake up. They did stress that it was better if he could do that since he is so thin and many people lose weight with treatment.
I'm going to mention the concerns about GNC mentioned here to get her take on it the next time we speak to her.
SusanW,
I would appreciate hearing what the doctor has to say. Was Dave able to keep his weight?
Charm2017
I just found a couple of terrific sites for smooth food that I will try. I Googled blenderized food and up they popped.
http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/diet/pureedentreesalads.cfmhttp://www.drjuliatownsend.com/oral-surgery-patient-information/non-chew-diet-recipes.htmlI will continue to look for quality body building supplements to add to the recipes. I might try the local gym where the serious guys hang out and see what they use.
I might be able to pack in enough calories through the use of butter and cream to avoid the need of GNC type supplements.
I'm pretty curious myself after the discussion here.
Dave hasn't started his treatments yet. We meet with the MO on Thursday so I think the hope is the treatment will start a week from today. He is holding his own with the weight but I think the MDs would like to see a few more pounds before he starts.
I don't see that happening though.
It's hard not to worry---I know that I do but it seems the Peg is something that has really helped.
I'm trying to strike a balance between reminding, cajoling, encouraging but not driving my husband crazy due to my concerns about his weight...
I'll let you know what the nutritionist and the MD says about these products.
Hi notself I just finished treatments last week. when I was told about the tonsil cancer I only weighed 128 pounds. 5foot 7 and actually got down to 100 pounds. I was put on jevity and was drinking up to 6-7 cans and seemed to still lose weight. But today I weighed myself and put on 4 pounds. I bought a cuisnart food processor and making all kinds of puree high calories and super high protein concoctions. Yes use those powders at gnc that is a great base and you can add eas Myoplex which contains 42 grams of high quality protein! I work at a hospital in food and nutrition for years and I am glad I learned what I did with those special diets. keep a positive attitude and he will get through it look so far I think I weighed the least out of most in here so focus on that positive good luck donald
As I have posted in other threads, I refuse to just keep taking Jevity 1.5 as my only source of nutrition for the rest of my life. I bought a Vitamix 5200 with the medical discount for $300 and my wife now gives me the exact same lunch and dinner as she has. My weight has remained steady at 134 pounds but I feel much better both physically and psychologically.
I do not use nor need any GNC or health food supplements to get adequate nutrition nor calories. I have found the blenderized diet group on Yahoo to be very helpful as well as the G tube group on Yahoo (again, the wonderful posters on the OCF board turned me onto them both)
As I just posted in reply to another inquiry, Consumer Reports while listing the Vitamix as the number one blender, also liked
CU Recommended image
Oster Counterforms BVLBO7-L
Price: $80
CU Best Buy image
Braun PowerMax MX2050
Price: $50
These are obviously cheaper and if I could swallow, I would have considered them
Charm
Charm, I take the supplements to gain weight,. I went to a funeral home to see one of my better friends that had died. Everyone there I had known for years and not one of them knew who I was. I looked like a blue gill that had been out of water for 2 weeks and made my mind up then that I was going to put some of the 70 lbs back on. Even my neighbor of 30 years didn't know me.
Wow, thanks all for the comments.
My brother is 61. His whole life he was 160-165 until his wife of 17 years walked out on him to marry her cousin. Well he went from 160 to 145 almost overnight. I mean, who could eat? He has been having trouble getting his weight back up ever since. It's been four years.
The last time he visited he gained 5 pounds but lost it as soon as he went back home. What he eats is nutritious but he skips meals. I think he needs some tlc and food. I have a very ancient blender from the 1960's and it's motor could power a boat. I will use that until it blows up. After that I will buy the Vitamix or an equivalent.
Lonliness maybe?? He needs something to occupy his time and mind beside thoughts of what happened.
I have been living off of my PEG for >2 years and hear are a few things I have learned: Cancer feeds on calories/sugars, chemo can damage your hearing (a pre treatment test is a good idea), this site is golden for help and advice. Good luck to you and your brother - our hearts are with you both.
I have just started using a living fuel supplement to replace jevity 1.5/isosource 1.5 and it seems good so far. livingfuel.com
Another good site is Lucys realfood. Great recipes for peg tubes and liquid feedings. I have been making my own peg food since October 2009 with healthy food, healthy calories, proteins and fats and very little sugar content. The recipes were approved by the nutritionist and, as a matter of fact, she was very impressed.
I'm gaining my weight back slower than I'd like but I'm told to expect that.
Thanks for the link. I am reading the how to's and have a comment. Instead of rewarming the food in a microwave, it is often easier to bring it to room temperature by placing the container in hot water. The food container should be around two cups and the hot water should be in a container at least 4X bigger. This prevents microwave hot spots.
I will have about 5 days between the surgery and my brother being released from the hospital to go shopping and pre-make some food. I won't know if he is going to have a peg until after the surgery.
When reheating frozen food it should be reheated to a minimum of 140 degrees. You should also never thaw frozen food in still water or on a counter top. Freezing does not kill bacteria, it only goes dormant so it should be either cooked in a frozen state, thawed in a refrig, microwaved or placed under (preferably cold) running water.
Best is thawing in the fridge then cooking as David said.
I'm also 6' and pre-cancer weighed over 200 lbs. Ten years after treatment I weigh 155 and can't get beyond that. Encourage your brother to consume as much as he can prior to treatment. Loss of taste and saliva can cause a lack of interest in nourishment. Then the stomach shrinks and causes a further lack of appetite.
On the positive side, I feel better now, ten years on than I did when packing 215. My grandkids Wii, says that 6'/155#s is normal. So bro is not that far away.
Most important is that you don't nag or put pressure on him. If his weight becomes problematic, his medical team should be able to deal with it. I avoid Boost and Ensure in favor of store brands. Walmart, Safeway and nearly all of the drugstores have house brands that taste better and are way cheaper.
He is taking Boost as a temporary measure. He has gained about 4 pounds which is a lot when someone has been as thin as he is. I am not a fan of Ensure or Boost or any of that type of stuff, but right now it is going to be good enough.
After his surgery when I have him in my clutches, I will make sure he eats/drinks quality.