Ok this is going to sound nieve but it is sincere. With everything we as survivors have gone through and what is known to cause this monster to grow, what is the deal with drinking. I am wondering if having a few drinks effects recouperation. I don't drink very much at all, but love a good glass of wine or beer now and again. So basically I am wondering to cheer or not to cheer? Sorry to ask and it has probably been discussed many times but for as long as I have been here still have trouble finding information..It's not the site it is me computer illiterate lol

Dianne

Your topic has been discussed and there were many opinions on it. Im not sure where to find the posts. Personally Im on the side of dont drink. My reasoning is if drinking is a contributer to oral cancer then I dont need anymore risk factors against me. Also my post radiation mouth would probably never be able to take the alcohol since I cant even drink a soda. Thats only my opinion. Im sure others will disagree with me.

That's what I needed Christine opinions and or facts...I don't or haven't but like I said Christmas, New Years and the odd birthday are times when I would normally have a drink or two...I am not a huge drinker. It has been a long while since I had one and like I said I don't wanna do something that would cause any further problems cause I already have issues of fear sore ear throat not sure if connected to surgery same side as tumor (have contacted doctor about this) but I really don't wanna give a hand to something that needs no help.

Shhh...I had an appletini about 2 months ago but honestly, it wasn't that good - I was just curious about how it would taste post treatment. Haha. I'm the type that might have a drink twice a year (and my first drink was when I turned 21 and now I'm 23) so I hold the opinion that drinking every so often is not going to up my chances for a recurrence, and red wine is good for the heart, right? But, I know that others have different opinions on the subject and everyone is in a different situation so what is good for one person may not be good for another. If in doubt, call your doctor up. I'm sure you wouldn't be the first person to bring the subject up.

For the 3 years after my first diagnosis and surgery, I didn't drink at all. Since my 2nd surgery, I will have a beer every now and then (rarely more than 1 or 2 a week) as IMHO, it didn't stop it from coming back! On any out of country vacation, I break my own 2/week rule but truth be told I find that even though I "could" drink sometimes, I just don't bother. A virgin Ceasar tastes the same as one with vodka.

My R.O. said he didn't see a problem with an occasional drink - in his words its hard to determine exactly what causes cancer to recur as "we don't live in a bubble".

I dont drink hard liquor at all,

Donna

Doctors' opinions vary on alcohol post treatment. My ENT/surgeon says it's better not to drink at all. My RO says a glass of wine or beer a day is fine, just no hard liquor based on his patients's experience (he had noticed a definite link to hard liquor and reoccurence but then saw reoccurence where they had totally abstained from alcohol) . Both agree that if it bothers my mouth even a little, don't drink. I worry about the reports linking alcohol in Mouthwash to oral cancer. Yet I still have a beer or wine for special occasions and certainly plan to toast the Holidays. Just my choice - not a recommendation for others. I certainly am no longer a social drinker.

I was told by my RO at Moffitt that I could have a drink every once in a while but believe me I tried a beer about 4 months post Tx and it tasted like crap. I tried another one 2 months later and it tasted OK a so I had a second one and I thought I was drunk. I was never much of a drinker but I could always hold more than 2. lol

I tried some beer and some wine and they *burned* back of tongue and throat -- The least burning came from a sweet white wine, but it was still there. I still don't taste sweet or sugar, but I do feel the effects (as in the wine) -- If I put sugar in coffee, I can't taste it but the coffee will be less bitter.

Thanks folks as always given me a lot of information to digest and a lot of really good ideas...I have a call into dr already and am gonna ask them when I inquire to the pain experiencing...not sure why now but I am sure there is logic there somewhere. I just know one thing it is one or the other in connection to my t#3 and alcohol... so thanks again...

Last week we were a friend's house and he had a bottle of Johhny Walker Blue which he offered not to show off but because it was a gift and he wanted to share it. That stuff is so expensive it should be measured out with an eye dropper. I am not a fan of scotch but could not pass up the opportunity. WOW! It had a very smooth smokey almost burned taste which lingered for more than just a few minutes. It was not harsh like that "burned taste" scotch whose name I forget - it has a black and white label.

Malka--could you be talking about Jack Daniels?

My RO said no problem to ocassional beer or wine - he seems to heve a much stronger opinion against liquor. That worked for me as beer was always my drink of choice and a cold one going down does feel good on my pipes now. The taste is not as good as it once was but making a come back. Cheers to all for the Holidays.

Dianne,

I was told not to drink during the vital years, the years that have a high percentage of the cancer coming back--the first two years post tx. However, my RO told me not to drink at all forever. He explained that alcohol is strong enough to damage the cells in our mouth, he added for a healthy person it's not a big deal but for someone who has had OC the outcome can be detrimental. My RO also told me his patients that did not stop drinking or smoking after OC diagnosis did not make it, that cancer has always won. Now, even though he didn't tell me I know he was talking about excessive drinking...But why take that chance. I was never a hard drinker...maybe a few drinks here and there...maybe 1 or 2 cigars every year or two on special occasions. Maybe just a few drinks and 1 cigar a year was enough to give me cancer...The point is I don't know.

Will I go out and drink casually? No. Will I have a glass of wine at a wedding or special occasion? Yes, but not for a couple of years or so. Why take a chance during the vital years. Will I have a cigar if I ever have a child? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'm addicted to breathing.

Once again thank you all for you imput...I just never realized what drinking had to do with oral cancer exactly. I understood having to do with liver kidney stomach and other parts but the mouth?...I understood smoking. Just seems all the "fun" stuff is bad. I never used to drink much either. Usually weddings, christmas new years and birthdays. So I rather doubt I will. This is probably nothing new to anybody here but it would be nice for a night or even a few hours of no pain and let loose. Seems to do that naturally has been harder than I anticipated. We still have fun but to let guards down seems to btake a few. Funny my friend and I used to go to bars and drink coffee. At the end of the night everyone thought we were as drunk as they were cause we fit in so well. We just had to let everyone else catch up to us on the crazy side... We were that naturally...So whether I will or wont have a drink I think I will go with the flow and how I feel. Right now it is a big fat Maybe lol

LOL, Dianne, you know you will have 1 or 2 drinks. Then you ccan have my share. Just don't fall off the stool and sue me.LOL You are such fun on here. I likes ya lady.

An oral surgeon told me that I shouldn't be using mouthwash with alcohol -- It's the irritant on the mouth cells that is the problem -- I asked him if it was OK, from a cancer standpoint, to shoot the stuf into my veins and he admitted that way would be alright, just not putting it into my mouth!

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice!

Ray,
It was Johnny Walker Blue. It costs about $250.00 a bottle (maybe cheaper at Walmart??)

You know Jim I will probably wuss out as usual...I have too much trouble with my concience to begin with and if something happens I will think I caused it with a glass of wine or couple of beers over the holidays. I would just have to beat myself up. Wow starting to feel a lot of restriction like I did in my rebelleous teen age years...Can't do this can't have that...grrrrr...Only now I am old and know better...but this sucks...A whole new normal...no drinking no smoking what else can be taken away ...BUT WE ARE STILL ALIVE to complain about it!!!! not that all that stuff is so good for you anyway but they say breathing can be harmful to your health too!!! Happy Holidays ....

LOL I guess that's the good thing where you can say the devil made me do it. You could go with Pete's shoot it in the veins. If it works let me know and we'll get the staggers together Dianne.But on steps going down,, you have to go 1st.

Ok just be careful where I would lead you....you never know with the devil made me attitude...
hee heee...

goodness! just where would that be?

Johnny Walker blue.........

See my other quoted numbers elsewhere: 89.47% of doctors consume beer, wine, or strong drink. (yes the number is based on my observations not real science.)

The doctor I credit with saving my life was a Pathologist, he drank a bit too much, himself smoked over a pack a day. He was the person that told me to have the lump checked "now" (while we were both in a bar)

His name was Rodney F. Rod died last winter of hypothermia. He fell on ice when getting out of his car in his driveway. The temp. was -20 when he managed to crawl 20 feet with his injuries and was found frozen just outside his garage door. He was returning home from a visit with his wife whom has alzhiemers.

I guess what I'm saying is he did not die from drink, he did not from smoke, he died from cold......so lets all be warm!

Dianne,

I think your rebellious teen years yielded nicely into your rebellious adult years. JM2C's

Blush... thanks David...but seriously I don't think it is girls that just wanna have fun...and like Mark's doctor if your number is up it is up I guess...That is such a sad story but you know what we can all keep warm by fireplaces...or with each other telling stories and making each other laugh and keeping spririts up. Right now I have been given a second chance and I truly really want to LIVE and whatever that consists of I want to experience new feelings see new things. So that is more going with the flow.

I also know the limits that my new normal holds too and know too well that common sence should rule...Smoking despite how much I know it is a huge part of why I am here I stand still addicted and true to the addicts oath Never give up on a good (or what feels like a good) thing. It is months (gosh seems like years) since my last smoke and I still think of them fondly...this is scary but standing true to what I know is good.

But drinking is something I can live without. I just don't like being told on any level I can't have it. That has always made me want things more. Even being diabetic being told you can't or shouldn't have that chocolate bar and my reply has always been your right as I devour it. Rebelleous, crazy or just plain stupid I am not sure just know I want to live and enjoy life's little indulgences...Then there is missletoe hmmmmmm a whole new door lol

n Hummm, I'm a willing learner Dianne. Just be easy with me. LOL

-20 degrees!!! Freezing to death outside of your house!! I read another post who said it was -60 degrees with the wind chill...I live in Pa and right now it's about 30 to 35 degrees and it's freakin' cold...

Where the heck are you people living!..LOL..LOL..

I helped my buddy move back from Cleveland...Man was it cold there..he was like isn't this great...I thought I was going to throw him in Lake Erie...The Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame museum was closed and I saw the Brown's Stadium--that was neat.

Malka--I was talking about the rot gut you were talking about but couln't remember the name...I've seen Johnny Walker Blue but never bought or drank it. I have an unopened bottle of Johnny Walker Red that I've had for about 2 or 3 years.

I know someone who drinks almost every day and about 5 packs of smokes a day--he's fine.

My stepfather's uncle smoked 7 packs of Lucky Strikes a day and drank daily (he owned a bar)--he died at the age of 67 eating a vanilla ice cream cone. Someone told him a joke while he was eating the cone...he started laughing then coughing then choking then dropped over dead. It was a lot better then his brother's death--his brother didn't smoke or drink and watched his weight and his wallet--he was shot five or six times while the bar was being robbed--he was only 64. You never know.

Oh yeah Ray! I'm in south Louisiana and it's 72 outside!!!! I'm wearing shorts right now. It was almost 80 yesterday. And, to make matters worse, it snowed here LAST week! Haha...crazy Louisiana weather!

Ray,

You don't want to hear our weather. LOL

It's very White Christmas outside my window across Puget Sound from Seattle right now, with snow falling and Christmas lights up. My desk is set up by a second floor window overlooking the street, so it's a nice view.

I love the snow lit up by lights it is such an amazing picture for sure...And people are so creative. Both the parks in our area go all out with businesses supporting the lights. Walk through the park you can even talk to Rudolph. Man it is a beautiful world!!!

we are up north of you and had almost a foot and a half and now it is snowing like a dickens again and gaining fast ... hoping the hurricane force winds do not kick in like they say, but if they do, they do ... we have the generator ready to go if it gets bad...

stay warm and enjoy the view - we don't get this much very often ... 1990 was the last i remember this bad ...

i got some awesome shots with the cam ... downright jaw dropping beautiful i tell ya...

I remember a winter in the early 1960s that it was -30. The oil in my carwas so thick it was like paste. Had to put heat lights under the oil pan for a few hours to get the engine to turn over. Had to work that nite on the RR and had my face mask freeze from my breathing. That was while riding across the OHIO River on the 1st car to make sure no one was crossing the tracks in front of us going down hill in WVa. That was the coldest I have ever been. Just couldn't tell one of my brakeman to do it.

OK now it's our turn as a massive cold front is headed our way. By Monday am the temps are expected to be in the mid 40's and the high only creeping up to the mid 60's. Supposed to last until Tues am. Man this winter is cruel. I need to move south.

David, I guess your next move is some where in the keys? LOL

Stephanie, I know what that south weather is all about!! I have family living in Texas and Florida...I also know some people in Venezuela and Aruba...

I can always drink some rot gut to keep me warm! JK

We are NE from David and S from Stephanie. It was in the 60's in the early AM and is dropping to the 30's later this evening. It is 50 outside but not cold enough inside for the heat to go on. Now I feel chilly inside.
I have to go look for my earmuffins because we are going to the Menorah lighting later this afternoon. It will be on a plazza over looking a bend of the Mississippi River and the wind can be very strong there. This year the menorah will be lit by newcomers to New Orleans. We are still in recovery mode and appreciate all the goodness which has come our way from individuals up to foreign governments. Many people have helped in many ways. Those who have chosen to move here are a special class of people who have come in spite of the challenges of living here.
It is a powerful sight to see the huge Menorah burning as the ships pass on this great river which is still the backbone of America. Goods and materials from almost the whole Northern continent and all over the world pass through here via a network of ships, barges, railroad and trucks. Every year I am reminded that here in the USA all are free to believe in and openly practice their particular faith with neither limitation nor coercion from the government. No one has to be hide nor pretend to be what they aren't. May this soon be the norm everywhere.

WARM wishes to all,
Malka

Here in San Diego it is awfully wintery. Temp is 75F and the sun is shining on the pool deck.

But I sure would like to see more opinions on drinking after this ordeal.

I was raised with wine at dinner, Somehow a good steak without a glass of red wine sounds anathema.

Of course in my case, I first have to learn how to swallow again, as I can't even get yogurt down my throat.

But more opinions or experiences would be valuable.

From what I understand from listening to oral surgeons and ENTs, it's that alcohol is an irritant, so I suppose if one only irritates occasionally, it might be OK.

However, presuming my cancer came from tobacco or alcohol, I had abstained from them for 35 and 11 years respectively before the cancer came out, so it's apparently a delayed effect. If it was HPV, that was only a 10 year abstinence. Yet, there was only about 2.5 years between my irradiation and a second recurrence in the irradiated zone.

I know more than I understand about this disease.

OK another opinion...

I have a drink or two every now and then. Dr said as long as I wasn't excessive it should be cool. Fairly certain my cancer came from smoking 2 pks a day for a few years, unhealthy eating habits, and there is a significant history of cancer in my family.

I try to eat better and reduce the overall amount of toxins I expose myself too, but I think an adult beverage every now and then is OK.. Provided it doesn't irritate things in your mouth.

tim

Pete, For a second there, I thought I was reading a question from the SAT's.

As far as drinking goes...I would do what you personally feel comfortable doing. From what my doctors told me, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a drink 2 or 3 years post tx. This OC left a bad tast in my mouth....no pun intended.

Heck--I can't even handle black pepper..And I love spices.

Charlie, I also finished tx on November 4th...It's hard to eat but it's getting easier. Try to drink as much as possible to get those muscles working again...I was having trouble too and drank a lot of water. I think that's what helped me.

those of you with above freezing temps are Pikers. We had 5 degrees F all day with wind chills at -15. snow Friday and Sat. meant work all day today.

We think ourselves into warm.

There are statistics which suggest that alcohol is a potential causitive factor. If you look at numbers from countries that have a high per capita alcohol consumption rate, their OC rates do not always follow their consumption rates.

7 years ago the "studies" did not even recognize HPV. Do they really know what we should worry about? Personally, I believe that mental health is as important as anything. Alcohol in various forms and in social settings can be very theraputic. Is the therapy worth the risk? You have to make your own decision.

IMHO Alcohol has been overly picked on. There are many here that were not heavy consumers of alcohol.

Do what makes you feel healthy and in moderation.

Oh, by the way, I think tobacco is bad in all forms.

i have never been a drinker .. socially on some weekends for probably 2 yrs in my very young adult years but since that time frame i have my 1 bottle of baileys (with coffee) each holiday season and that is it for the year ...

they say drinking heavy and/or smoking heavy can be a cause - smoking and drinking combined greatly increases risk ... but will an occasional drink cause it? imho I highly doubt it ... and would worry more about an occasional cigarette over an occasional drink ...

BUT But but but but but ... once you have already fought the monster I would think you would be more prone to problems from known factors, so on that note, I did not buy my bottle of baileys this year ... and will not anymore. i will stick to an irish cream latte instead now, have them throw in some peppermint.

If I loved wine (which I do not) I would try to limit my consumption and greatly reduce it, if not eliminating it ... It is all mindset and you can adjust a lot quicker and easier if you remind yourself this is all part of your healing, treatment, etc. and that it is ongoing.

You and you alone have to decide what risks you are willing to take with your life. If it has even a tiny tiny tiny chance of causing problems - is it worth it when there is always a risk anyway? If I had a recurrence I would want the peace of mind that I did nothing to cause it.

You are breaking my heart with your cold weather woes David. Suck it up big boy. Is my room ready yet? 40F sounds a heck of a lot better than the -28C we will see on Tuesday!

Donna

Tim,

How have you been? Great to see you post your wisdom again.

Charlie,

Nice to meet you and I hope your recovery goes well and I agree that swallowing is a tad more important now.

Malka,

Yesterday they lit a menorah in St Petersburg (Fl) and the Rabbi was in black shorts. Just kidding if that's a religious no no.

Mark,

OK, what's a Piker.

Ray,

Yes to Key West if they can get those hurricanes under control. I like Aruba except those "seasonal" trade winds which have been there every "season" I went there.

Mark--I also want to know what is a piker? Anybody living above freezing temps? That's my guess. What's the origin of the piker?

David--Those winds always exist in Aruba. Did you notice the Divi Divi trees? They grow with the wind. Those winds also keep the bugs at bay and that's a great thing. Aruba is also out of the hurricane belt, but, there are rumors that the island is going to sink. Something about it being the tip of a mountain and that the rough seas on the north side of the island is wearing it a little thin underneath. The island is about 20 miles long and 5 miles wide. Great food. Aruba is one happy island! I know because it use to say it on their license plates.

In case Mark missed the ? re Piker here are a couple of translations from downunder.

Someone who doesn't want to do something especially within a group.

Someone who doesn't want to fit in with others socially, leaves parties early.

Ray,

By your definition I would think you meant to say BELOW the freezing temps like on a mountain as in Pikes Peak? Just guessing.

Also I was being sarcastic about the winds in Aruba as I have been there many times and after the first visit when the seasonal winds were still there I figured out that's why the Divi Divi trees grow the way they do. Laying on the beach will get you sandblasted for sure.

[quote=Mark]those of you with above freezing temps are Pikers.
We had 5 degrees F all day with wind chills at -15. snow Friday and Sat. meant work all day today.

[/quote]

It was cold, so maybe my brain was frozen.

I wish I was presently in Aruba eating some very fresh seafood

Sorry, I used a word that might be local (regional) slang. I have to admit I looked up the definition and it dosn't match our local usage. I think the "down under" usage is closer. Piker in local slang would be a beginner, novice, and stretching into chicken or "fraidy cat" Give up too easy or too soon.

I always imagined the origin was from the logging trade which around here (about till 1930) was done in the winter and then in the spring the logs were floated down flumes and ultimately rivers to the sawmills. Pike poles were used by men that would ride the logs and try to keep the logs moving and not jammed together. Thus the men might be called "pikers".

It turns out that it might also come from the Norwegian language. We have a great number of Swedes and Norsk (Finns too) that settled around here. In Norwegian "pike" is girl. Perhaps piker comes from a derogatory use meaning not masculine. I.E. "John couldn't even lift the box, what a piker!"

Hey you learn something new every day.

Very common term here as I posted earlier Mark.
As is Budgie smugglers for Speedo's

Piker is a wanna be and is far from it. Just a pretender.

Call me anything you want but I still hate cold weather and locally that means anything approaching 60 or below. Anything 50 or below is downright cruel and inhumane and has no place in my Florida. JMHO

Can someone explain to me the "budgie smuggler" / speedo thing?

I've always associated it with cheapskate or tightwad who won't pay fair share.

You all certainly have a funny language up North.

David, just so my intent is clearer, the term piker is generally used amongst friends in a teasing way.

Further, I am in absolute agreement, anything below 50 is positively inhumane. The only thing between calling you a piker and 60 degrees is jelousy (mine). Why my ancestors chose this part of the world to take up residence is beyond me. I stay here because all my neighbors have moved to your state and driven the price of real estate beyond what I can afford.

Maybe not true right now as we are beginning to see some signs that our R/E market may have finally bottomed out.

I grew up in Va so as a kid I had all the pleasures of snow and especially those snow days off from school. When I grew up and I use that term loosely I realized snow and sleet and those ice storms were not as much fun anymore so realizing that I was going to retire to Fl one day anyway, I decided to beat all my friends and get here early.

I enjoy parts of Florida, my brother use to live in Fort Lauderdale and I thought that was nice. I know Texas is becoming popular as a retirement state. The Texas real estate never had a great increase like so many other places and a popular retirement destination for Texas residents is Mexico. Parts of California and Florida had major declines in the real estate market, so a deal can be made in those places. Las Vegas is another market that had it's fair share of troubles.

Mark--there are plenty of warm places to move too. Me on the other hand...my GF wants to retire to the Jersey shore...I was hoping for someplace warmer. Maybe if we move there now I'll get to go farther south later!!

If you can find me a little cottage on the water with a dock, anywhere from where you are to Pine Island or Sanibel Is. for $50K I'll be packing my bags tomorrow! (fixer upper is OK).

PS I need 4' water depth for my sailboat.

As far as Texas goes, I've been to the Brownsville area (South Padre Is) Nice there but man they need to grow some trees!

Donna, (Pandora) I don't know who started with the budgie smuggler thing here, but if you want to see what they mean just search google and you'll see enough. I'm going to speculate that Lake Winnipeg is cold enough where you might get chicka-dee smugglers once and a while but probably no budgies at all.

Well folks I just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and all the best in the up and coming New Year! It is a year for all of you to shine...

Of course I still didn't get an answer from my nurse about alcohol I planned on it and I got distracted with other issues I was concerned about like my pain in the ears and headaches...gonna to wait and see...

So as far as celebrating with alcohol I am still not sure what I plan on doing. I think it will be a very very quiet christmas anyway so probably won't have to worry about it!!

I don't think that drinking on special occasions would hurt anybody...JMHO

It would burn me and plus I don't have a desire to have a drink.

Well I guess I got my own answer...I tried some wine. The first sip tasted wonderful...then it started not necessarily burn but stung a bit then everything started to tingle and not hurt but tweek I guess so I never finished the glass. There was my going with the flow...

I talked to a family member and found out that her mom at 78 also went through oral cancer....And my opa he has had a sore in his mouth since he had his teeth removed and got dentures...I talked to one of his daughters and she didn't think we could ever talk him into seeing a dentist...I didn't have to after seeing me and hearing my story he asked me to "hook him up" so to speak...wow what a turn around the man dislikes doctors of any kind....So there is hope yet...

So for today...It has been a great christmas!!! I wish the same for one and all!!!

He may dislike doctors in general, but I'd bet that seeing your experiences brought home the danger of waiting instead of finding out!

When I was in hospital last time, one of my IV lines was partially clogged so the nurses flushed it with cranberry juice (for the acid) -- Strangely, that set up a craving for cranberry juice so I got some after discharge -- Burn!!!

Congrats for getting him so interested, he wantsto be checked, Dianne. You get an extra star up there tonite . I'm so glad you had a nice day. I went to my daughters and then we all went to to my exes for supper. She is still one of the better cooks in the valley. I brought home some of her cherry and some pumpkin pie. Ummmm good as they say.

Picture's worth a 1000 words.

You bet and in person...guess I have my work cut out for me...going from a patient to a possible care giver...Interesting...He has been having trouble with his mouth for years just last year had all his teeth removed...and they were all rotten..

and speaking of pie we got the most fantastic bannana creme pie...it is inches from heaven!!

Shots would have gone down quicker! JK...drinking anything with alcohol would throw me in a tail spin right now.