follow up to earlier thread about nutrition, here's a comprehensive and well-researched article that pulls together findings from different studies. it's well worth reading. (link removed by OCF)
be well.
gita
Good info, but exhausting to think through... and I could find other articles that contradict different parts of this... sigh...
I agree with Eric...seems so exhausting and confusing to figure out what is really good to eat or drink...so much even about water and fluoride, etc. And then for those like Helen who was a total veggie, didn't keep her from getting cancer...wow, so hard!!
Thanks, Gita, for sending the site for information!
Take care and God bless,
Debbie
I, too, agree that it is very difficult to find what will work while you sift through the myriad options people direct you to. Keep in mind, the basic (or newly revised, I should say) food pyramid as a guide. Another important thing to remember is that while you are going through chemo and/or radiation, radical changes in diet are a shock to your digestive system and entire body, for that matter. A comprehensive change from a carnivorous diet to pure vegan diet would take many months for a healthy person and would most likely not be beneficial to someone going through chemo and/or radiation until many months after treatmnent. A very important part of radical dietary change is to detox first and then gradually work in the new diet. Detoxing while undergoing chemo and/or radiation is not going to be a good thing as is heavy detoxing while active cancer is in your body. Refined sugar intake with active cancer is also not good. Get your sugar from fruits as much as possible until your body is somewhat cancer free.
Take regular mutlivitamins. Sublingual B-12 will help your damaged digestive tract absorb and use protein versus just pushing it through.
Beyond this basic information, always consult with a dietician/nutritionist and your medical oncologist on all diets and changes in diets.
Ed
For a number of years now, in addition to daily multivitamins, my oncologist has had me taking Vitamin C (500 mg/day) and Vitamin E (400 IU/day). I know there's a lot of controversy over whether Vitamin C supplements help to ward off colds, but in my case during the years I've been taking them, I've had almost no colds.
Cathy
Cathy, like you I have been taking Vitamin C (500 mg/day) for about a year and I am usually the last one to catch a cold in my family when the weather changes (knock on the wood).Even if I have a cold, I can recover pretty soon as compared with others. Again I am not sure if it is the Vitamin C that helps me or that my immune system has been strengthed through healthy diet and exercises.I don't take other types of Vitamin and I don't eat too much fruit because it doesn't taste good to me. But I have a tomato as my breakfast every morning.
Karen.
Cathy/Karen,
I have never taken Vitamin C supplements and on the average, I get a cold about once every three years. I can be around a houseful of people with colds and they just affect me once in a while. The last one was November 2002 and I had a temporary office in the hallway facing the north and it was 10 degrees (f) below zero with the wind howling in on my all day. I took some zinc lozenges and it cleared up in 2 days. I guess I am just fortunate.
Ed
Please note that OCF has chosen to remove the link in the first post of this thread. First, if you read and agreed to our rules of use of the message board, they require any links related to treatments, nutrition etc. to be approved by the staff of OCF prior to posting. Second, while the recommended site has some good information
I received a couple of emails about all this, pro and con, from the informed and the less informed, from
Based on the research I've done, here's what I do:
...first, anyone currently in treatment should talk to their doc about taking supplements. It's possible they could interfere with treatment. For instance, both chemo and radiation rely, at least partially, on the use of oxidants to kill the cancer cells. The use of anti-oxidants could cause problems. In my case during treatment, the nutritionist would only sign off on a multi-vitamin that contains no more than 100% of the RDA.
OK, here's what I take:
Every morning and evening
-------------------------
500mg ethster C
160mg echanasia
250mg ginseng
...in addition...
Every morning
-------------
200 IU vitamin E
200mg folic acid
Every evening
-------------
multi-vitamin (Theragan M)
3mg garlic oil
Every Monday, Wednesday, Friday morning
(this is in addtion to the other morning supplements)
-----------------------------------------
25000 IU vitamin A as beta carotine
400mg selenium
200mcg chromium
One day or two out of every couple of weeks, I won't take any supplements to give my body a break.
Why only three days a week for some of these? Vitamin A and selenium can be toxic because they accumulate in the body. I don't want to make myself sick when I'm trying to do exactly the opposite. No matter what, I don't want to over do it. The body does need some oxidation. So I'm not "mega dosing," but I want to make sure my immune system is as strong as I can nutritionally make it.
...anyway...it seems to work for me. (knock on wood)
-Brett
Right or wrong, I don't take any pill other then the tiny white pill to adjust my thyroid. I bought bunches of this stuff right after radiation ended, even took it for awhile. I bought boxes and boxes of Ginseng and Green tea also. Eventually as cancer allowed me back into the drivers seat, I just stopped taking them. I can honestly say that I didn't notice. Boy, I sure do remember the Chocks vitamins my mom used to give us as kids, they tasted so good.
Is there one certain thing that EVERYONE is taking or that is PROVEN to help?
I have been praying a lot and I think that has helped me the most.
I stopped taking everything except the mixture of 19 Chinese herbs my Accupuncturist mixes up from herbs that come only from Taiwan. I also have a special Accupuncture treatment twice weekly that is intended to boost the immune system. I will admit that there are only two cases of total cure, one was base of tongue tumor with lymph node involvement in a 17 year old. I can't remember if it is 19 herbs or I am confusing it with Colonel Sanders 19 herbs and spices
and I want fried chicken almost every day, too.
Does all this work? It makes the Accupuncturist beam with excitement and I see his love when he gives me the herbs and treatment (at no cost, by the way). He has invited me over to a pure vegetarian Chinese feast prepared by his wife. He also diagnosed my cancer. I had been to many, many doctors over 7 months or so and when I was telling him about it, he placed his hands on my neck, grabbed my hands and made me promise I would go straight home and make an appointment. He is always jovial and laughing and I could see the tears in his eyes and the fear. It frightened me and I went immediately and had a plastic surgeon remove the lump which turned out to be metastatic SCC. My Accupuncturist was an MD in Taiwan for the US Air Force.
Besides all of the above, I eat 3-5 types of vegetables a day and cook most of them with fresh garlic and wash them down with green tea. My mother survived both atomic bombs and she told me as hard as they had to scrounge for vegetables for months afterwards, they always tried to eat each meal with 5 vegetables, even in small portions. One always had to be a long root as long roots were good for a long life in Japanese culture. She died of cancer at 66 so I don't know if it helped her but my grandmother lived to be 94 and my uncles are in their 70's and 80's.
Ed
dear brian,
i entirely disagree with your decision to remove the link in my post. [if anybody wants the link, e-mail me and i'll send it to you personally.] i find this to be a rather patronizing attitude that underestimates the intelligence of people in this forum. there have been other articles posted elsewhree by ohter people, so posting a link to an article by itself is not against OCF's rules of use. you have made a decision on the basis of the article's content alone not with regards to the rules.
as for the links in the original article's website, i wonder if would you disallow a link to say an article in "washington post" because their pages are riddled with commercials and advertisement links?
in your justification, you state your personal bias more than anything else. allow me to provide an example of why there is no reason to consider NCI and ACS, etc. with any less degree of critical doubt:
in the nutrition guide on NCI site which i posted in another thread, in one part of the document they advise against refined sugar intake, while in another part they recommend muffins and ice cream as foods to sustain while you're sore post treatment. of course, anybody can see the glaring contradiction here, no? why are we to believe that NCI and ACS and others like them have no agenda? why shouldn't we ask the doctors why they recommend "ensure," a product that many people here have lived on for long periods at a time, knowing that it is high in refined sugar content?
cancer is not just a disease. it's an entire industry that generates quite a lot of profit for many, whether they're in the mainstream medical establishment or on the fringes. should we ignore this fact and put our blind trust in this industry? for whose benefit?
be well.
gita
We have visited this sugar thing before. Clearly, limiting the intake of refined sugars is one of the cornerstones of a healthy diet and a healthy diet is key to cancer prevention. The problem here is that one of the major recovery issues faced by Head and Neck cancer patients in difficulty eating and weight loss. Excessive weight loss and malnutrition inhibits the healing process. In other words, does the good outweigh the bad. In our situations the fact that you can eat something is more important than what is in it. I lived on Carvel shakes, I know they are bad for me but, as I said I lived on them. I had a look at the nutritional site and, if you read it, they point out the need to eat what you CAN eat and, additionally, they stress the need to enjoy what you eat. You will need to come up with a better reason for Brian to allow a "free for all" environment in a web site that has clearly cost him so much.
Glenn
Gita,
I am sorry you feel so strongly about the link but I understand somewhat. Like it or not, we are at the mercy of a moderator on any message board and even if we don't agree 100%, there are still avenues to express our views and share information. I recently was directed to all of the rules of posting here and I had not previously or don't remember seeing them much less agreeing with them. I had to agree to get back on the board but I don't like to agree with something unless I really do agree. I may have taken exception with the part of not expressing any specific religious beliefs but I have tried dilligently to adhere to the rules of engagement, if you will.
That being said, do not underestimate the value of all the work Brian has put into this whole process. Likewise, do not underestimate the value of your contributions as they build into a community of contributions with a diverse mix of people. The main topic of Adjunctive Therapy has a reminder that no links are allowed under this topic. You can always mention something controversial and ask anyone to email you or private message you for details.
I know from experience that anything beyond NCCC guidelines is not very popular. I have had my butt kicked up and down the street like a tin can on several occasions. However, I will continue to post and try hard(er) to not take it personally. There is much too much valuable contribution from all here to let any one thing deter me from my two cents worth.
One person will never fully determine a community or a culture. If so, why do we have literally thousands if not millions of cultures and sub-cultures in the world? Brian has a vision and from what I have seen, he has created an incredible thing that provides loads of information and a support community! His choice to not make it a free for all is certainly justified given his level of blood, sweat and tears, not to mention the financial burden he has endured to keep this thing going.
You don't have to agree with everyone. Nobody ever will. Just recognize the the path of least resistance. You have enough to deal with right now.
By the way, I will email you a link you may enjoy.
Ed
a few clarifications are necessary:
1- i'm sorry i did not state this earlier: i DO value brian's work in creation and maintenance of this site. and i DO understand his concerns and reservations. nevertheless, i disagree with his method and decision in this case.
2- i DO NOT advocate a "free for all." i'm no more interested in junk science than anybody else, and it's great to have informed moderators in a setting like this. however, no moderator in any setting can be assumed to be fully objective and that's human. in a case like this, many of us would learn a lot more from a healthy debate around the issues that have been raised than from staying in the dark. for example, it would be helpful to know what glaring "inaccuracies" there were in that article which, by brian's own admission was not too poorly researched. the issue seems to have been more with the other stuff in the site than with the content of the article itself.
3- had i not posted another article link in another nutrition thread on "adjunctive therapies" board i would not raise the question of inconsisency in this case. if it is a rule to not post links to this board why wasn't the other link removed? was it because it was to a page on NCI site? hmmm...
be well.
gita
I have to agree with gita on this subject. We can determine thriugh research and follow-ups to alternative trearments. I don't think we need everything screened. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate.
However more times than not the "Magic Potions"
some of the vulgers tout out there do create a hope where none really exists. This is crule!!!
Not to mention expensive,
Dan
It has been some time since we had a good debate on here!
I am not and have never been a follower in life. I like to have things my way and work hard to make sure I get that as much as possible. Where this board is concerned I am a respectful follower and will follow whatever decision Brian makes. It's a privilege to be allowed to be a member of this board that Brian maintains and pays for. If I want links to other websites, I will go to a search engine and get them.
Minie
ALRIGHT! a good debate, let me in here!
Gita your points are well taken. You are fairly new here and I want you to feel welcome. The fact that there is a section here for "Adjunctive" therapy is testimony that the minds here are open. This site is visited by millions of people (or 1000 people thousands of times) monthly. They are sometimes brand new to this disease and are hurting. OCF has a reputation of not allowing anything that might confuse or mislead them in the path of their learning. In addition there are directors of OCF that are the tops in the various medical fields associated with this disease. We all need to be sure that we respect their good names otherwise they would be reluctant to offer their help. You needn't feel singled out in this bit of censorship, many of us have had our wild hairs trimed. In fact if you look back in the archives there are some doosies (if they are still there) When I first started posting here within weeks I was crossing lines and getting shot at. (I fired back too
) As Greg points out it has been a while since we had a "good one"
As Ed said It is still a worthwhile effort for you to be here and for us to be here. There is a need for new information to find it's way here and it is also probably better to be overly cautious in screening that information. I believe we should still discuss the subjects at hand even if we don't have a web site to zap to. You can still cut excerpts out and paste them here for us to ponder. You could also mention a key search word or phrase for us to try.
Be well enough to be able to give some wellness away.
Although we are in the same boat sharing the same goal of fighting cancer, we are all very different, different in our perspectives, our value judgement, our interpretation to information around, and many more. As a webmaster of such an active site with thousands of visitors, Brian has every right to censor the content of messages especially on critical or sensitive issues. Somehow I think it may cause embarrassment or even ill feelling on the poster whose message is removed after being up for a while. I am not sure if it is technically possible that censorship can be done before any web link is posted and the poster can be informed privately if the message or link has to be deleted from the forum.That can make the poster feel more comfortable and respected.Just to add my two cents' worth.
Karen.
Hey Mike, I wish you would stop calling me Greg.
Glenn
Jeeze I must be stupid or something Sorry GLENN
Mike
I am not going to get in the middle of this one again. I will state a couple of things for the record, and in doing so state they are my opinion which may not be shared by others. First, this site was designed to offer people with a specific disease a place to look for UNBIASED information, edited by some of the best doctors in the US on this disease. Second, the forum was established to help those who are searching for advice, support, and information, to gain it from others who speak from their own personal experiences and knowledge. To exchange a
Hi Brian
Well said.. as a radio ham I had to keep politics and religion out of my world wide contacts.. this is only good manners when you are not'face to face' with the other person.. respect the other person's point of view and sometimes you learn more than you thought possible.. and yes I NEED to trust this site.. it is my primary source of information..
take care and once again thanks
sunshine... love and hugs
Helen
The chase for bogus treatments and the removal of those who promote them continues. Please check out the latest news story at
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=177 For those of you who do not regularly check the OCF news pages, they are updated twice a week with articles that we think will be of interest to our members.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for that link about Laetrile. I am sending it to a close friend who said I should try it, some people he knows have "cured" their cancer from the product......
Cheers!
Tizz
If you are living in New Zealand, be reminded that there is no selenium in the soil here so it is a good idea to make sure you supplement your diet with it whether you have cancer or not. Every farmer gives it to his livestock. An important trace mineral. I reckon you cant go wrong with few mls of organic flaxseed oil on your porridge every morning, either. Tastes great, some really good fats and it might be good for helping to prevent some cancers (probably not oral, though).
kem
While I can't eat nuts at all since radiation, darn and I love them too, Brazil nuts are loaded with Selenium. Just three a day is supposed to supply your daily requirenment and I defy anyone who can eat nuts to stop at three. For those that can, enjoy.
Eileen
Eileen, wonder if Brazil nuts could be ground and stirred into pudding or sprinkled over icecream. Amy
Don't know. I can eat small amounts of nuts that are in things like carrot cake or chocolate chip cookies, but the nuts in butter almond ice cream are impossible.
Give it a try. Everyone's mouth seems to be different. If it doesn't work for you, at least the rest of the family can get it's selenium quota.
Eileen