Jen-Amen! Amy

Jen...just don't survive cancer to die of heart disease!!!! Calories are not just calories. If that were really true I'd be living on all the bad things that really taste good to me. There seems to be an inverse law of taste and eating satisfaction. The more you like the taste of something (for me it's something that has fat in it) the worse the actual contents of that thing are for you. I used to be a card carrying member of the "We don't need no stinking vegetables group" Give me a piece of greasy fat laden prime rib any day... that was the old me. I shudder to think what the walls of my arteries looked like. And the disease cofactors that went with that lifestyle

Mark,
you crack me up! I hear alcoholics, every day, in AA meetings say that they only "drank for the effect". "Normal" people drink to get a little "tipsy". I can assure you that those of us in recovery for a while are more open minded about alcohol then you think. I buy drinks for people on occasion. Even the (AA) "Big Book" states that 80% of people are "normal" drinkers and that's ok.

Glenn, I don't believe that I have a "myopic" view on alcohol at all,although I have "strongly" counseled people on occasion who obviously have drinking problems.

The bottom line here is that alcohol and tobacco use are implicated as a causitive factor for H&N cancer and also for recurrence (and many other forms of death as well).

This is directly from MSKCCC's website

"Tobacco & Alcohol Use
People who use tobacco (including smokeless tobacco) or drink alcohol excessively are at much greater risk for the disease. For example, smoking raises the risk of cancer of the larynx (voice box) or hypopharynx (the top portion of the esophagus) to 5 to 35 times the risk of nonsmokers. Heavy use of alcohol raises the risk of those cancers 2 to 5 times. Those who smoke and also drink heavily might be raising their risk to 100 times that of non-users."

So who are these imaginary people with their "myopic" viewpoint? It isn't evident who "they" are in this thread anyway.

If you want to drink, knock yourself out. MSKCCC's key buzzword is "Heavy". I doubt if an occasional cab with a steak is going to kill you (but be sure to trim the fat -that's for you Brian ;-)

Jen - there are better ways to get calories than alcohol. If you enjoy an occasional drink just admit it. Rationalizing it out for the "calories" is skating on thin ice.

Gary, I was worried because you were quiet on this. Good to see you again.

Actually, being somewhat of a control freak, I've never enjoyed a drink. As Tom pointed out, alchohol has ceremonial and ritual uses as well in our society. I've adopted the "When in Rome" philosophy when in adult company. I figure most of the calories in a cream drink probably come from the cream. Outside of a ceremonial sip of wine or mead for a toast, I never even finish the glass. Sometimes just a dab will do ya.

No worries about the vegetables, Brian. It's just that since I'm trying mightily to put weight back on, I try to up them... like squash baked with lots of butter and brown sugar or sauteeing them in olive oil.

I've been concerned with clogging my arteries and asked my doctors if I should be worried about all the cream and fat. They assured me that at this point I probably need it at this point. I even asked the nutritionist if I should be at all concerned with all the dang ice cream I've been eating and she told me that calories are calories no matter where they come from. Just for my own piece of mind though, I've been working hard in PT on weight machines trying to build back the muscle mass I lost. Don't want to just get fat.... I want my body back FIRM not flabby.

Cheers!
Jen

Jen,
I too was concerned about fat in my diet when the RO suggested that I eat Hagan Daz every day (I don't any more). Like Brian, my diet has changed predominantly to healthy things now and because that's what seems to taste the best, not because I'm worried that food will cause a recurrence (I still like my Coca Cola though).

See - "I never even finsh the glass" Spoken like a true "normie" No self respecting alcy would EVER leave a drop behind.

I never did put all of the weight back on and I am glad. I am the perfect weight now and can eat whatever I want. I just passed my 3 year post Dx mark.

Mark, most of these threads are so well covered what more can I add??

You could start a "friends" thread about blowing holes in Mr. Osama

Gary, I too am glad to see you back. As one of OCF's strongest FACT posters, you are a valued source of core information, besides your own experiences. Don't be a stranger around here.... or are you waiting for me to catch up with your record 1540 postings helping other people?

I can not over emphasize to the newbies here that a person like Gary, who has been around since almost the beginning of the board, who continues to come back to help strangers year after year, is an invaluable asset and an individual who like Mark and other long term givers, exhibit the highest form altruism, helping other people. It's a special kind of person that gives of something as valuable as their time to help people they will likely never even meet. This posting gives me the opportunity to once again thank they many of you who have continued to participate and offer your insights to the newcomers year after year.

It is with clinched teeth, I am posting this because disagreeing with Brian is like disagreeing with God. But, I have to take issue with his reply to Jen. 1st of all, we are all gonna die of something-hopefully old age-but maybe that isn't so great either. The nursing homes in this country are stuffed full of those who have outlived their family's capabilities of caring for them. 2nd-I believe the calorie consumption issue has to be addressed at each stage of your recovery. My husband's 1st IMRT was May 25th- the last July 8th. Today, Dec 7th, I can just about see every bone in his body. His mouth is a wreck and we are struggling each day to get good or Any calories into him. And that includes beer and wine. When he gets past this, say 6 months from now, then we will start counting "fat calories, etc." again. John's feeling is he would rather have a heart attack than starve to death. His stomach will only tolerate so much ice cream [shakes, etc.]In this discussion, I think we should delineate between those just trying to rebound from tx. and those who are far enough out to be more concerned about the kind of calories they are consuming. Love ya Brian. [and Mark and Gary too! Wish I could hug you guys in person}Amy

It's OK with me, and please do not make those kinds of comparisons about me. I know a bit about lots of things, an expert in anything I am not