Tell me what you think this means please.

We are dragged along the journey to a destination unknown in a world where control never really exists for the benefit of no particular thing under the guise of chaos without rhyme or rhythm as abstract as creation and the beginning of all can ever be.

Thanks,
Cindy

Sounds like something an atheist or agnostic would say. It makes me very grateful that I personally believe that there is too much order in the universe to support the chaos theory. Conversely I believe that everything happens for a reason or purpose or is a consequence of an action or reaction.

It doesn't sound like a thought that would lead to much hope. But now I'm curious - what does it have to do with cancer?

Ditto what Gary says.

Just something I read after Harry's treatments started and I just wasn't sure what it meant.

It was a philosophical thing I was reading.

It was in reference to loss of control and what we can and can't control in our lives. Not just cancer related but any kind of long term thing like cancer.

It just made me think and I was curious about what others might read into it.

Thanks,
Cindy

Cindy: I am an atheist and actually that statement sounds to me like something a fundamentalist would say. It is saying that there is "something" out there that is dragging one along, a god if you will, to a goal that is unknowable to us humans. Kinda like the saying that "god moves in mysterious ways." Anyway, that is how it sounds to me. That said, I agree that it is not a very helpful/hopeful thought to muse over, but the issue of loss of control is very real to cancer patients, terrifing in fact. For my brother it was and is a big issue. It certainly seems that Cancer takes over your life, whacks your dreams aside & you have to cope with the consequences.

I personally would recommend more positive thoughts, like imaging you can get your hands on the cancer and imaging squeezing it, slowly, firmly, to death. Imagine Harry laughing, 20 years from now, at a family reunions, holding his youngest grandchild, named for him. Hold that thought!

Candace, it is interesting that you mention the control thing. Harry and I actually had a fight about that today. He is angry and frustrated and I understand why but the way he is dealing with it is not good.

I tried to talk to him today about understanding that we have to find a way to live our new life and put the old life to bed. He just got even more angry.

I know the feelings. All to often I want my life back and I am not doing such a hot job at coping with the loss.
The hospital gave me an article that was written by a woman who has breast cancer and has had 3 recurrences. It was a very positive story and enlightening. She says that the world has always been chaos and we just trick ourselves into believing that we have control over it. I think that she has a point. A point I may never have conceded had we not been forced into the "C" life.

Thanks,
Cindy

PS... I am a Taoist which is why I am always submerged in my philosophy.

I would suggest closing this thread. Anyone can make that statement mean anything they want it to mean. I can see this easily turning into a God/No God argument. I know it was my first instinct. So, can we close it?
Minnie

I wasn't necessarily asking for religious interpretations although it is one's right to look at it that way, however if it offends someone I apologize. It was not my intent to start a religious war.

I am just looking for answers to questions that I suppose are unanswerable. Like why him? Why now? etc. etc.

I imagine I am not the first to be asking these questions nor will I be the last. I spend everyday trying to encourage my husband to continue this fight (which is getting harder and harder each day because everyday that passes he sinks further and further into his own inpenetrable fortress) and I guess I am just searching.

My husband is not a positive person. He used to be many years ago, but the last couple he has been very pesimistic about everything. I am afraid that he is not like most of you. He does not look at this as a battle to be won. He looks at it as if the enemy has already won. I spend every waking moment trying to save him from himself. Do I have the power to do that? I don't know but I am not ready to give up trying.

He won't look at this site, won't talk to other survivors, won't talk about how he feels to anyone. I can see it is eating him but he just closes up and shuts everything and eveyone out.

The statement can mean anything anyone wants it too and it was just that that I was trying to solicit. To see the world and this disease through others eyes. It is helpful to me and my husband to have a different view of things. It is far to easy to become wrapped up inside this little isolated world we now live in so I reach out to others in order to hang on to the knowledge that the terrible lonliness that we are both feeling does not really mean that we are alone.

I kind of thought that was what we were here for.

Once again I apologize if I have ofended anyone.

Thanks,
Cindy

Cindy,
You didn't offend anyone. Interpreting statements such as you posted could easily lead to a God/No God debate and Brian tries very, very hard to keep religion to a minimum. We have lost posters because they were offended by the overly zealous religious tone of some posters or by another posters need to state there is no God. The board isn't meant for that type of activity.
Concerning your husband, him withdrawing isn't that unusual when dealing with cancer treatment. Now may not be the best time to try and talk to him about old lives and new lives. I'm sure his mind is controled by one thought right now, and that is getting through treatment. When he feels better, and he will, is when he will begin the process of grieving his old life and accepting his new. I think Harry is VERY MUCH like alot of people on this board. I know Gary will admit he was a bear during treatment and Brian himself felt like he was not going to make it. Only Harry can decide how he is going to handle getting through treatment. He has lost all control of his life and feels horrible. He is getting to the end and sooner then you think both of you will be in a better place. I wish there was more I could do for you but my best advice is to remember that what you are going through has been done by thousands before you and your feelings are shared by many.
I hope you understand better now why I felt we needed to close this thread.
Minnie

I was pesamistic thoughout my entire treatment. I was a vomiter and was dehydrated and not even able to hold to hold water much less the liquid meal. I was miserable andlost 80 lbs. which made me quite anemic looking and weak. I hid in my room and resigned myself to the "inevivitable". I'm relaying this because I'm still here . I have survived 2 years and life is pretty good. When I prayed, I prayed God's will be done..but I thought that was for me to pass on. But obviously it was not . Some people need to deal with the horror of cancae from the worst case scenerio, and I don't think it dampens your chance for survival,provided you keep to your treatment plan. I couldn't focus on life after cancer I just had to get through the day. Noe I'm in school, doing things with my husband and 12 yr. old daughter and my 5 yr. old grandboy. So don't assume your husband has lessened his chances, this may be his way to control a situation that is too big to handle any other way for him. I know it is hard for you,as it was for my hubby but he carried the hope for both of us. Keep the faith.
-Sue

One problem we have often had with my husband is that when I want to talk bout big issues, he is thinking about the small, day to day or minute-to-minute problems, and when he is ready to discuss life philosophies, I can only think about how to deal with the mucous in my throat right now.
Maybe if Harry could concentrate on controlling the few small things that he can control right now, the long-term big issues would be easier to deal with, or not deal with, at the moment.
I am really saying the same thing as Sue in the previous message: this may be the best he can do now. I know it is hard for you, pessimism is contagious.
All the best - Leena

The loss of control is a real issue, and a reality that religious or not, is often shocking to those who encounter it head on. In my own experience it was one of the many things that I mourned as a loss. That transition took me through loss, anger, frustration, and finally acceptance. This path has been reiterated to me by individuals on both sides of the religion issue so it seems a universal experience. Whether you believe that things are preordained by a God, or you believe that we are froth on the wake of life, control would appear to be an illusion in either regard. In either perspective it is nothing more than castles built on sand. Acceptance of life's nature, whether from a spiritual perspective or existential perspective, is what allows balance in dealing with the ever-changing nature of our existence.

Brian,
That was exactly what I needed to hear. I think you are correct and the most difficult lesson is that I never really had the control I thought I did and neither did Harry. We are dealing with that harsh reality in very different ways.

I have always somehow believed that I was in control of my life... all of the things that come in and go out... but the one thing that any major illness can teach you is that control is an illusion that we create for ourselves so that we can maintain some level of order in our lives. At least it is for me.

Now we struggle together and apart to cope and understand what is, what was, what might be, and to what extent we can control any of it.

I think that the idea of control goes to the heart of any faith be it God or anything else. Even sometimes love between 2 people.

I know that in time we will learn and grow and I am really hoping that in a year or two I will be able to speak of the wonders of our lives such as those who help people like me do now.

I can never express in words how eternally grateful I am that you created this place. I am sure that you do know that but it can never be said enough.

With Love,
Cindy

I like this thread, because there are so many ways to view life, approach life, live life & I for one have a better life value since cancer. I do remember fighting completely everthing I could through treatment just to have some false sense of control. It got me through, good or bad. I do hope Harry can find some peace once in awhile for his & your own sake & like others have said the worst will become better & life will again have some sense of normalcy.

I like this thread too. And I too believe there are so many ways to view life. There is a wonderful philosophical piece on living life after cancer written by Brian Hill. I'll see if I can find it & post the url here. - Candace

I'd like to recommend a book that has been helpful to me: "The Five Things We Cannot Change and the Happiness We Find By Embracing Them" by David Richo. He does draw upon spiritual teachings for resources, models, and inspiration.

I am always nervous if someone thinks I have said something profound...usually it's something profane and they have just used the wrong word to describe it!! But now my interest is up. What could I have said that you remember almost a year later.... if you find the URL send it to me please.

Brian: I don't have the URL but I do have the date. It was posted on 19 July 2004 and I emailed it to my brother because he was so angry & depressed about his life after cancer. One of the statements I particularly liked is "Once people have gotten through treatment, they can only be victims if they choose to allow it. Everything that I was doing before I saw the light, was self-destructive and counter productive to getting on with my new life. My different life, my life with limitations, my imperfect situation." I am hoping my brother reaches that realization. It was a very good, helpful article.

Rock on you guys!! I'm so impressed that I was dead wrong on this one.
I agree, this thread is enjoyable.
Minnie

My own take is that the danger zones are the extremes. If we think we are in control, we are in for a surprise when life goes a different way than we were planning. But it is awfully hard to function in complete chaos. I worked with a hospice patient once who told me that, when he looked back at his life, seemingly random things seemed to be part of an unfolding pattern. There are times when we may not be able to see two feet in front of us, but I think it still helps if we try to find our center and stay balanced.

Lawrence

OK, Minnie, is this where I bring up the PEG or not to PEG question??

By the way, I haven't thanked you for all you are doing for all of us right now!!

Ed

Ed, I have been banned from talking about PEG tubes. After my shabby treatment of Glenn I have vowed to never bring it up again!
Thank me for what I've done for all of you?????? Are you kidding me???? It would take me years and a dozen rainbows with pots of gold to repay what the members of this forum have done for me. I sure wish you and your wife could make it to the walk!
Minnie