This time you win. Every thing in the world is alright. We all gave our selves this disease so we get what we deserve or worse. At least I know my badly creased pants won't show in my coffin.

This response I really don't get. All is not right in the world, which is obvious, and which I never claimed. On the contrary there is much wrong with it, including in a small part, (but certainly not at the level of the real horrors that continue unabated each day) the issue of not taking responsibility for ones actions. And I never said that we all gave ourselves this disease and that we deserve it. I said that 75% of those with oral cancer came to it through a poor choice, the use of tobacco and alcohol to excess, which is an established fact, not my opinion. I also stated that of those that have had this disease (at least in the last fifty years, my bell curve period) that particular group had weighted the cause of getting oral cancer towards a poor lifestyle choice rather than just the luck of the draw as in many diseases. I don

Mark,

This is just my humble opinion, but I think it is time to put your feud with Brian to rest. Your posts are very welcome here because you have been through this fight and can offer valuable insight. You seem to be a very caring person and are truly trying to help. However, making smart aleck comments to Brian are not helpful. No one who read his entire post would think he was suggesting that all cancer patients brought the disease on themselves or that they deserved to get it. And, no one in his right mind would think that he was saying that all is right with the world.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but please try to keep pettiness out of it. People come here for help and nit-picking and back-biting is just not helpful.

Rainbows & hugs,
Rosie

Guys..I apologize for being a bit flippant with my remarks about the dry cleaner. My point was a simple one. Obviously there are good and bad doctors ,dry cleaners, and even lawyers. (like myself ).I find that most professionals, especially doctors,are very dedicated and really care about doing a good job, although at times, of course, we wish that some of them could be a bit more sensitive.

Although I have been afflicted with this dreaded disease I feel no bitterness toward anyone, not even to God, if she exists.

Danny G.

There is no personal fued with Brian. My reply was based on the fact that I really don't have time to argue and waste that energy simply for the sake of arguing.

Obviously I feel pretty strongly that several things must change if we are to see progress against all serious health problems.

It should be clear from my posts that my beef is with the low side of Brians bell curve: Those individuals that make life or death decisions for us but through omission, neglect, ignorance or any other errors, cause added pain or shortened life. In my OPINION there is very little mechanism in the medical system that forces these people to either catch mistakes early and improve our plight or allow us to screen them out of our personal health care portfolio ahead of time.

Excusing these "professionals", we rely heavily upon, is not going to make anything better. Neither is tolerating and defending the current status quo.

I do not require nor need any one to agree with my opinion. I feel comfortable that my OPINION is logical, and rational. Further:

Is any one perfect? NO

Do I know it all? NO

Should we accept a certain level of failure amongst the successes? Of course! Perfection is impossible.

Should we strive to minimize failures? Absolutely!

I doubt there is any disagreement on these points.

Now :

What are the best ways to minimize these failures?

Can these methods be applied by everybody or only to those in a position to be their own advocates.

Besides courts and lawsuits, what other ideas would help?

I apologize for the fact that:
The gloves came off (this is a hockey term) about the time my opinion post of what I see as a fairly serious problem, was somehow on the same level of importance as laundry.

There sometimes seems to be a tendency here, to miss the bigger picture of what really is the fight we are engaged.

Since I love all of you as I do my family there is no pesonal ill feeling towards anyone.


P.S. If any medical professionals read this or my previous posts, here is my disclaimer: My opinions are not the opinions of this web site nor the opinion of the others that post at this web site. They are in fact my personal opinions which I alone stand by. Frankly if you are a good medical professional then we probably agree. If you are low on the bell curve...how about a new occupation.

I will close with this quote:

To speak of atrocious crimes in mild language is treason to virtue.
EDMUND BURKE

Brian...here goes. You may get pissed off and kick me off this site. I hope not, because I have the utmost respect for what you have given us in this forum.

But.....I take offense at the fact that you seem to "assume" that we brought this disease on ourselves. Yes, many might have, including my husband who drank and smoked too much, but the oncologist has told us time and again to not blame his alcohol and tobacco use on this disease. The abuse has been something that he overcame years ago.

There are people who have never smoked or drank who are fighting this disease. There was a 4 year old child on our local news who died this week of the same affliction. How do you dismiss this?

In the law of averages, does 25% not mean anything to you? And for the record, yes, there are very stringent laws that protect you in a restaurant setting. Just ask any of us who own one. The health department is there for you once a friggin' month! There are many laws who protect your health.

On a government front, my nephew has been in Baghdad for three months.....protecting your ass from something highly more deadly than any restaurant fungus. Have you given him any credit? And as far as the car you are driving....well you bought it. Did you not make sure there was a warranty on it? Stupid if you ask me.

We might have given ourselves a bigger chance of catching this disease, but did you know about the symptoms and what to do about them before you were condemned for past behavior? I know we weren't.

Hindsight is always 20/20. But how many of us still wear glasses?

There are shitty doctors out there. Thank God, it seems like you never had to deal with them.

I've sat in the waiting room with my husband for over two hours while a hospice patient was falling out of his wheelchair waiting for help. We actually caught him a couple times before he hit the floor. All he needed was blood counts and his wife was beside herself. It was all she could do to get him in the cramped waiting room in his wheelchair. It was so bad, that when my husband's oncologist came in, I blew up.

He had NO FRIGGIN' clue what was going on in his own waiting room...where my husband had been or where he was at in his treatment. Just took my husband's weight, looked at his damn blood results from the week prior and expected me to put up with it. I WENT OFF....told him exactly what I thought of his inhumanity and watched as his nurses came off the floor a foot when I slammed the door to my husband's exam room and went to the parking lot to cry.

Do you even care what his response was? "His office was getting too busy. We would have to put up with it!!!!!!!" Brian, this is one of the leading oncologist's in the Tri-state area. (John-Hopkins, included)

The hell with them. They don't care. At least some of them don't. Don't try to tell us that it's our fault. We didn't ask for this shit.

This is bull. We are here to fight the same enemy. Get over it.
You are no damn better than the rest of us. You've just survived longer than most.

Mandi

P.S. Screw your "bell curve"

P.S.S. What "real" questions would you rather address? Your mortality?

Being a lawyer I have spent a good bit of my life arguing and debating, but I find these days that I don't enjoy it as much as I used to.I guess, because I think it is pointless and after having faced cancer, I would rather spend my time doing other things. I am a little amazed and taken aback by the level of Mandi's vitriolic attack on Brian. Gosh, this guy has dedicated his life, money and time to helping people like us. Most of us, including myself, have done nothing but worry about ourselves and our loved ones.

Brian is about the last person who would cast blame on anyone for having oral cancer. His empathy is obvious from reading any of his postings, as well, I believe, is his even handedness in discussing issues. Facts are facts...drinkers and smokers are more likely to have oral cancer and drinking and smoking are preventable. I am a non smoker and rare drinker who still got oral cancer. I have noone to blame, but for all I know I might have gotten it from sexually transmitted HPV virus.

Those of us with this disease have been dealt a bad hand. I just try to make the most of it and enjoy life as best that I can. I am very thankful for dedicated, caring people like Brian, who create forums like these that allow people like us to express our feelings. I have no problems with anyone expressing his or her feelings, but I do have a bit of a problem understanding directing your anger towards someone as unselfish and caring as Brian.

Danny G.

Mandi,
You seem to have alot of anger, which being the caregiver for my husband, I can understand, but to lash out at Brian is really helping noone. I have been a member of this forum for almost three years and have read every post since. Brian has always been supportive, caring and informative. He does state facts, which frankly I am happy to have. However, just because he states that tobacco is a known cause of oral cancer does not mean he thinks everyone who uses tobacco deserves to get this cancer. In contrast, he is probably the person fighting this cancer the hardest by starting this web site and all the other things that the OCF does.
I always like to hear everyone's opinions and ideas about things, as we learn so much from each other, but personally attacking someone, especially Brian, is uncalled for.

MANDI You can post your screwed up distortions this time. I am leaving them so everyone else can see how off the wall and stupid your posting really is. But this forum is not for this kind of personal attacks and issues not related to oral cancer. Save this stuff for some other place. This is the only posting of this type that will be left on this forum. Any other personal attacks on me or anyone else, and it will be your last posting on OCF.

What does your family member being in the service in Baghdad have to do with anything related to what we are talking about on an oral cancer forum? I did my time in Vietnam long ago and I don't need your sorry ass, protected by veterans like me, to tell me what

Brian,
I will keep you in my prayers that all turns out well. I know you had to respond to that post, but please don't let it get to you. There are so many people out here who admire and respect you for all you have done and continue to do. Hopefully if she choses to respond it will be to apologize. She apparently has much anger that she does not know how to deal with.

Julie