i dont understand...why would a person who just had surgery on there tongue want to smoke?? i know people are addictated to cigs but you would think after getting that 2nd chance at life you would wake up and not want to smoke.. and make the best of the 2nd chance that has been given to you..it really upsets me to see people smoke after all of this...

Barb,

I know it is hard to understand.. ?? You do not smoke so I understand your thoughts. ( I am guessing)

I first had tongue cancer and thought after surgery all was well... I guested Wrong!!! I did quite smoking for 6 months., Then started again... Then had cancer spread to other nodes.

OK, now you ask, why did I smoke.?? I did because I did not know that the cancer had already spread. I did because this is my addiction for over 40 years. I started smoking when I was 13. I am smoke free as of 2005 and I am very proud of it!!

Now here is a new lesson for you. You do not have to be a smoker to get this type of cancer. Shocking !! isn't it?? I was very shock to learn this.

When I was diagnosed with this, I thought well it is your own fault.!! Then I learned later that people that did not smoke got it... So now what??

I hope this will help you understand what is what. Smoking is a addiction, a chemical, a drug. Even coffee is considered the same. So it is important for all of us to learn everything we can about CANCER.

Take care and keep Learning!!
Diane

Barb - I share your feelings. I never smoked but have had loved ones who did and it has been so difficult for me to understand why some people seem to quit so easily and others cannot. My son, for whom I've been a caregiver is a non-smoker. He's the one that got cancer whle my other son (five years older) who has been a long time smoker has never had cancer of any kind! (so far) From what I've learned, nagging the person doesn't help so I'm still learning and when I find the "right moment", I share with my older son what I've learned about cancer and its effects.

well i hope i didnt offend any one with this question but it just doesnt make any sense to me at all.. and your right Diane im not a smoker so maybe thats why i have a hard time with this.. so if a person continues to smoke after surgery how much more likely are they to get there cancer back? i know a girl i work with has had tongue cancer twice now.. she didnt quit smoking after the first time and the cancer came back and now after the 2nd time she has quit and so far shes ok..are some people more suseptable then others on this coming back if they continue? I dont want to offend anyone with this but i just need help understanding it all.. im guessing if i was a smoker i would feel different about it..

This is from the Mouth Cancer Foundation uk website:

"Tobacco and alcohol are the most important oral cavity and oropharyngeal cancer risk factors. Mouth cancer is largely a lifestyle disease, meaning that the majority of cases are related to tobacco and alcohol use. Approximately 90% of people with mouth cancer are tobacco users. Smokers are 6 times more likely than nonsmokers to develop mouth cancer. Users of smokeless tobacco have a 50 times more likely chance of developing mouth cancer. Statistics show only 6% of head and neck cancer recurrence in patients who stop smoking in contrast to 37% of head and neck cancer patients who continue smoking developing a second cancer. People who stop using tobacco, even after many years of use, can greatly reduce their risk of all smoking related illnesses, including mouth cancer"

But everyone is different. As we all know - this just isn't an exact science unfortunately.
My chemo nurse said that life stlye choices can make a difference as to whether a cancer will reocour. But that would of course depend on the cause of the original cancer.

As a none smoker it frustrates me too to see people playing russian roulette with their health. I'll never understand it. But i respect it's their choice. & if they get cancer as a direct result of their habit. Then that burden is on their shoulders i guess. Maybe thats harsh?

Maybe Chelle but why does one person get it and another doesnt?

Who knows!
So many factors have to be in place for a cell to mutate into a cancerous one. I guess some of it must be chance.
For example, they think the cancer i had is related to the EBV virus. The cells in the back of the Nasopharynx release an immortal protein because of the virus - but that doesn't makes them cancerous. Some other contributing factor then makes them mutate, and becasue they can't die the mutated cells multiply into a tumour.

Perhaps some day scientists will understand the whys and wherefores. Until then i guess some of us are just unlucky.
& in the view of smoking - everyone knows its not good for your health, cancer, heart disease, lung disease etc. But people still start smoking every day!
Maybe if the reasons some people get off scot free (though with lighter pockets) are discovered then there would be no life style related cancers! & if that reason were ever discovered then cigarettes would be made illegal & where would our government get all there taxes from? *lol*
Now thats just opening another Pandoras box!

i got another question... what about second hand smoke?? is it worse on a person then just smoking the cigarettes your self?? im 38 years old and never had a cigarette in my mouth but i dont think i would really want to see what my lungs look like... i have been around smoke all my life and im sure my lungs look just like anyone that smokes..some times i think i should just take up smoking but then think better of it..

I know what you mean Barb,
Both of my parents were heavy smokers. My dad would even smoke in the car with me & my sisters! It's selfish, because what choice do kids & babies have?
I don't allow smoking in my flat. Even my partner goes outside for a cigarette now. & everyone's respectful not to smoke around me.

Hi All,

I am ashamed to admit that I am a smoker. At 13 it was the "cool" thing to do. I quit when I was pregnant with my daughter 23 years ago and picked up the habit again when she was about one. I think I quit again for about 5 months sometime between then and now, only to pick it up again. On Feb. 3 of 2006 I quit for 6 months only to once again pick up that cigarette during a stressful time. (kicking self) I've been smoking ever since. This Tuesday I will be having surgery on my spine to remove a herniated disc at the C-4, C-5 level. Once I'm released from the hospital I will be spending a week at my moms house where smoking is not allowed. My plan is to get over the "hump" while I'm at my moms and have all the cigarettes out of my house so when I return home they will not be available. I wont be allowed to drive so going around the corner to get a pack is not an option.

Cigarettes are by FAR the most addictive thing I have ever put in my body. I really want to kick this thing, especially with all that is going on with my Dad. He NEVER smoked a cigarette or took a drink in his entire life. Why he got this terrible disease is beyond me. I've many times thought that it should be me going through this and not him.

Chelle, you are right....how selfish it is to smoke around your children as they have no choice in breathing in the second hand smoke. I always smoked outside and never in the car with my daughter.

The last time I quit, it really wasnt that bad. After 72 hours the nicotine is out of your system, after that any withdrawls you have are purely psychological.

I'd like to challenge anyone out here who is a smoker to please kick the habit with me this Tuesday, August 14th. We could start a topic under the Friends section and help each other through it. If you dont want to do it for yourself, give it some thought and do it for the ones you love. I'm doing this one in honor of my Dad.

I'll be out of pocket from about Tuesday through Sunday, but I hope to see that others have accepted my challenge when I return.

Joy

Chelle, They also think my husbands cancer was related to the EBV Virus. They asked my husband if he was ever in South East Asia, and he said he was in Guam and Vietnam during the war. So who knows, my husband chewed for 30 years. He stopped cold turkey on 1/4/07(the day he ws told he had cancer) A few of his friends stopped chewing since his cancer but some say it won't happen to me. I am sickened by this. But he did asked the Dr. if the chewing was the cause of his cancer and they told him they just didn't know for sure but it certainly didn't help, It is just the luck of the draw! Would your chances of been smaller without the chew? Of course but who knows. So much uncertainty in this cancer world. I have to hold myself back when I see a young person chewing, I want to go up and tell them our story. One thing I do know, I have a large youth group I am in charge of at our church and you can bet they will hear my story come fall!!! LJ

I will throw in what my ENT told me last year when I was diagnosed with Base of Tongue. I had been a smoker for 40 years but she told me that the stats show that 8% of all BOT cases involve folks who have never touched tobacco. I guess she was trying to make me feel a bit better as I was convinced that I did it to myself with no one to blame but me. Not even R.J. Reynolds.

Bill D.

Barb,

In case you missed this thread I started last week, check out the link in my post. It might help you understand the addictive nature of nicotine and why it is so hard for people to stop. http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/001386.html

The inforamtion on the radiation from Polonium is very interesting, too.

I discuss smoke cessation almost daily with my patients and I agree with some statistics that I recently read that 80% of the people that smoke, want to stop. I think that the 20% that don't, either think that they won't get cancer or they enjoy smoking so much, they really don't care! Do you know that there have been cases of people smoking through their trach hole after having throat cancer? Hard for us non-smokers to understand.

Jerry

I for one am tired of hearing smokers come up with excuse after excuse. The insurance company should not pay one dime for a smoker health insurance, that might help with there addiction.
Smoking is not only bad for your health your family health anyone who gets near ya. Besides that it makes you stink like ash tray. I got my cancer because of smoking. Everytime I look in a mirror it reminds me of what a dum ass I was.

It sounds to me like your angry that you got this cancer instead of "someone that smokes" and are not looking to lash out at smokers. That makes no sense. A smoker doesn't "deserve" cancer anymore than a nonsmoker does. It's that simple really. It's very, very easy to judge someone else from the other side of the room but I suspect that we ALL have our vices in life. I know my grandmother cannot function with out her cup of tea first thing in the morning. No different a feeling then smokers have, no different an addiction. Only difference is that tea isn't a carcinogen.
Whether or not someone else smokes has no effect on your cancer so why waste emotion and energy on it by judging them?

Well said Minnie.Dont you think cancer is punishment enough Dogman do you really think sufferers need reminding that their habit is probaly the cause of the disease even more so if they drink as well.

I gave up smoking 7 years ago but now as result of the enormous strees of Robins illness i am back with my filthy habit and i hate it.I could have gone to the Doctor and become a valium addict,i could have turned into an alcohol dependant soak,i could have turned to sleeping pills or worse to drugs.
We all have addictions of some kind or another some with more serious than others,and it is very easy to be critical,particularly after the horse has bolted,but i paid my national insurance stamps all my working life,and i also paid a very high tax and duty on every cigarette i smoked ,so any cost to the health service for treating any illness i get as a result has been well and truly paid in to.and i will give up again when i have coped.!!!

For what ever nit wit reason you come up with to smoke make no sense what so ever. You know what smoking has done and what it can do. State after state is baning smoking for a very good reason it will kill you. Insurance companies for one after they have paid for our bad habit once, should drop you in a heart beat if you smoke again.
Minniea Angry would be one word for what I think of smokers, Anyone who keeps smoking after what we went threw, must of got some brain damage along the way.

Now hasn't this opened a WHOLE can of worms!
I don't think ANYONE 'deserves' to get cancer. I wouldn't wish it on the most evil people in this world never mind just because someone somkes!
People that smoke KNOW the potential risks. In the UK it's printed in black & white on every packet!
I don't judge people that smoke - it's an addiction (that can be treated with medical assistance & a big dollop of will power). It's no better than being an alcoholic though - just as not every smoker will die from their vice, not every alchi will die from from liver cancer or something alcohol related.
I'm far from perfect!
If we wanted to completely rid ourselves of carcinogens we'd have to eat differently, use different cleaning products, use different deodourants, different toiletries, the list is endless. BUT it's a fact that cigarette smoke has many carcinogens that CAN & DO directly cause cancers. But i do respect that's it's your individual choice. I dont push my views on my family - my dad smokes, my step mum, sister, step dad & my partner of 6&half years. They respect me for not wanting to be around it.
My mum gave up on July 1st this year & so far so good. (she waited until then, because the stress from me being ill meant she didn't have the will power to do it before).
Anyway, good for you Joy!

So dogman if a person has two carwrecks or two bigmacs should they be denied insurance. Should we give parents who give their children french fries out of the deepfryer forty lashings on town square. You are not lifes teacher, life is. Your freedom is a gift that this smoker fought for as well as many others are doing.

No smoking is not the best idea and smoking around our children is selfish. Cancer as well as many other diseases are costing our nation a boatload of money. All we really know about are risk factors aside from the new HPV findings. Sunburns raise the risk for cancer too and I assure you that many of those who get them had nothing to do with the depletion of the protective layer that we used to have. So awareness and lifestyle changes will help. Adaptation to new problems will help. Hope and compassion will help. Anger, disrespect (especially to those who have openly had compassion toward you plight), and judgement will only cause us to waste time, when we could be carrying a good message of information to those who need it. Thanks, Lee

Dogman, if you choose to waste time and energy on being angry at someone that smokes, more power to you. I can promise that it won't get you anywhere and it won't change anything for you. But just as that person is free to smoke, you are also free to have your feelings.

Carwrecks & BigMacs are not even in the same ballpark. No one in the world is going to tell anyone of you smokers anything because your not willing to listen to the facts. What I find it hard to understand is at the bottom of each one of your replys, is what smoking has done for you.
That we all have incomon. Squamous Cell. I got it from Smoking because I would not listen to people tell me it is BAD. You don,t have to stop keep puffing away, I made a choice not to don,t want my children to nor do I wish it on any of my love ones. Barb T now maybe after reading this you can see your not alone, they have every reason in the world to keep smoking, really Sad.

I did not open this topic to get everyone upset... i just had a question and wanted answers...it is each and everyone of our own choices what we do in life and as some of you said "yes we know its a bad choice" and i know cancer is a bad thing and i know you dont have to be a smoker to get it, smoke is in the air no matter where you go, and im aware that smoke doesnt even play a role in some cancers, i know its a habit to smoke, i have bad habits of my own, smoking not being one of them but the diet pop can be just as addicting and im sure it can cause health problems too..what doesnt cause health problems in the world anymore?
But to all of you who responded i do have compassion for you all and i know what its like being with a person with mouth cancer, i would do anything in the world for EzJim,,it just upset me when he lit that first cigarette after his surgery but it is HIS CHOICE and no matter what i will be here for him..who ever said nagging will get me no where is right it only makes the whole thing worse.. so i give up on that.. as i said its HIS CHOICE...
thanks for the information you guys all gave me i do guess it helps me to understand some of what i needed to know... THANKS AGAIN BarbT

Barb,

I think your question was just fine. So do not feel bad for asking it. It was a good question.

My husband quit smoking 13 years ago, but heres the catch.. he chews now. My son quit smoking too... he chews now. You can imagine my up set with this!! I have told them both to quite the chew, and I would rather see them smoke. (not really) The chew is worse. I just know I will see one of them start down this path I just got off of.

I love that saying from Movie "Stupid is as Stupid does" Something like that. Well it seems to Run thick in my house.. Ha ha..

Take care,
Diane

We

Dogman, where in the world did anyone in this thread condone smoking after treatment? I know I don't smoke and I don't believe anyone else on the thread does either. What I said to you is why are you angry at anyone but yourself? Don't worry about other smokers, it's their choice just as it was YOUR choice when you were smoking. If you want to be angry with YOURSELF fine, but it makes no sense to strike out at or judge other people that smoke. So you're "you smokers won't listen" lecture was way off base and out of line.

I went with Dennis to Johns Hopkins today. He will have to face surgery this time around.........base of tongue reconstruction, lymph nodes removed, trach, feeding tube (again!)....and most probably, radiation to the tongue graft.

The doctor smelled the smoke on his clothes, and went through the whole speech on why he had to quit. My husband does not lie....never has to my knowledge....he looked at this doctor, promised he would quit, and promptly left to find a smoking area.

It may be easy for you to sit back and pass judgement on someone you find inferior, but, you don't know this man. If you did, you would understand how far he's come, how hard he works for his family, and never asks for anything in return..........he just smokes.

It's not fair to judge anyone....and especially someone who already feels quilty for putting his family (not to mention himself) through the cancer treatments. How dare you?

Love,
Mandi

Dogman the subject is emotive and your presentation of it is down right apalling.
As the widow of a man who paid the ultimate price for his failings i know from many months of posting on these boards, that the one thing you should do before writing,is to consider the affects your callous remarks may have on others who are not as saintly as you.
The subject is a great discussion point but not a chance for a reformed smoker to get on his soap box and condemn others who may be trying but havent succeeded.

You might just as well ask why a woman who's husband beats her black and blue stays with him rather than runs for the hills.Human failings are not something the layman should criticise leave that to the experts who at least have some degree of sensitivity.

liz

I would like to say something on smoking i am recovering from cancer of the tongue and smoked from when i was sixteen ,if you were sixteen you were allowed to smoke at my school in break periods in the smoke room with the teachers which we did , this was a grammar school at which i stayed till i was nearly eighteen happily smoking away ,the teachers did it so it must be OK , perhaps i should sue them for a bad education (better at smoking than grammar you poss have noticed ) anyway i smoked until i was told i had cancer then stopped , then started again telling myself it would be OK till i started treatment ,then stopped again this was in march this year while i was in treatment i was so ill i could not smoke even though i watched my wife smoke who is a nurse( it never ceases to amaze me how many in our health service smoke ) , the problem is now i am feeling better it is almost as hard not to start smoking again as it was having cancer ,i have spent hours on the Internet trying to find some info on smoking ( in moderation ) would possibly not that harmful or perhaps cigars or a pipe maybe ,it is as hard for a long term smoker to give up smoking as it is to fight this disease so i certainly would not criticize any one with cancer for not being able to stop it hard enough fighting the cancer, hopefully as the recover (if they do) they will see that they are a lot more likely for it to come back if they carry on , i am not smoking now but i hope i can carry on not smoking i have had a go but it tasted horrible so i now i would have to teach myself again ,what i am trying to say is leave people alone with there smoke problem they know what they are doing let them get on with it , and if any one finds a site that says smoking is good for you let me know , and lets have some moaning about drinking because you are just as likely to get throat cancer through drinking ( well nearly ) and i don't think i will ever give that up , cheer everybody Allan

Dogman - I am glad that you made the comments you did. They were honest and you and all of us have a right to our own feelings. I'm sure it represented what many of us non-smokers were thinking but were afraid to express. I am also grateful to Barb and everyone else's comments and especially Brian's post. It has helped me to understand my son Paul's anger at why he (non-smoker) got cancer and his brother (smoker) did not. It has also helped me to understand and be more patient with my older son's difficulty in quitting. Certainly, no one "deserves" to get cancer, whatever the cause for its appearance. I prefer to be angry at the cancer beast itself especially if it helps me to fight it.

Brian,

You made an excellent point regarding the often times comment of the doc delivering the Dx to the tobacco using patient. This is exactly what my ENT did in April of '06 when handing down my verdict. I told her that I obviously caused the cancer from almost 40 years of smoking and she tried to shift gears. She said "don't kick yourself while you are down. 8% of all base of tongue cancer victims have never used tobacco". Yeah, at first that sparked hope until it sunk in that. . .DUH!. . .that means that 92% of BoT victims were/are tobacco users. A little voice then told me, "Bill, do the math".

Bill D.

I will say one last thing about smoking, I was a smoker, I got cancer from it, they had to cut part of my tongue out and full next dissection, have trouble moving my right arm, and all my teeth removed my life changed forever because of smoking. How dare me, how dare your doctor, how dare anyone, that would say stop smoking. You don,t like my presentation, sounds like im angry I really don,t care what you think.
I have paid a price to have this opinion of smoking. I buried 3 other freinds from smoking.
Sure you can get cancer from other things and good old Gorge Burns smoke for 90 years, but the fact remains smoking will kill you in more ways than just cancer. We have been emotionally tied to our addictions because excuses make it easyer to deal with what we did to ourself.
Smoking has been socially acceptable for years. Now things are changing, people have had enough of it, just like anything else change is hard.
How bad do you want to live. How bad do you want your children or your grandchildren to have it.
Oh Dad smoke or Grandpa smoke why can,t I.
I am sorry for those of you that are having problems watching others smoke, I still do, What really is sad people don,t care enough to stop smoking in front of us. Why is that???

The publics view of this cancer as being a "smokers" cancer is part of the problem in making others aware that they need to have their oral exams or that they need to have lesions and sores in their mouths checked even if they do not smoke. For non-smokers to think it really matters how they feel about smokers is total arrogance and it attaches a horrible stigma to this devastating cancer. I have the same feelings about an oral cancer patient that didn't smoke as I do for one that smoked for 30 years. My mother was just at my home for a week, she still smokes. Am I supposed to be angry at her? Am I supposed to rail and ask why me and not her? How selfish is that. She's addicted, she has tried to quit with no success. It's her demon, not mine and I am not going to judge her for it as her smoking has nothing to do with me.
So, non-smokers, please know that your attitude is one of the biggest battles that oral cancer victims face..........the publics belief that "they caused their cancer so why feel bad for them". And the public doesn't stop to consider that maybe this patient didn't smoke.......so that negative attitude hurts even the non smoking OC patients. Now THAT is unfair, THAT is what we should be battling.......not sitting here judging others for an addiction.

I agree with the point that non-smokers shouldn't think they'll escape getting Oral cancer because they don't smoke. & it isn't right that people assume you should have done something to get cancer. I had a PM recently from someone asking me 'what did you do to get cancer' Hello??? i didn't DO anything thankyou very much! That emphasises people ignorance that non-smokers can & do get H&N cancers to. But facts are facts, and statisticaly smoking is the common denominator, and that is what is pulisized most. Perhaps there need to be more campaigns to raise awareness amongst non-smokers too.

I wholly accept that smokers (and cancer survivors) have the right NOT to be judged. I don't pretend to know what a smoker goes thru in trying to quit, because I don't. However, I think I have the right NOT to breathe the smoker's smoke. Nobody smokes in front of me. I don't go anyplace where people smoke. I feel I have the right to say what comes into my house especially if it is smoke. When my smoker son comes to my house, he smokes outside no matter how cold it gets and no one nags him about it. He also smokes outside at his own house. My non-smoker son had a girlfriend a while back who was a smoker and whenever she was with him at my son's house, she wore a nicotine patch that he bought for her. If I travel by car with a smoker, I tell them about how I get violent headaches when I'm around smoke and that they cannot smoke in my car but I am very happy to make as many stops as they wish for them to smoke outside my car. Or we can use two cars.

dogman is mad at himself for apparently not quitting smoking years ago when his parents or someone else advised him to quit. we all suffer someway in life and pointing fingers doesn't stop it. Be Happy with what you have and that you still have your mind in working order. We are all to blame for our mistakes and must live with them..have a great day all!!!!!!

Here's a blog for the smokers (for smokers rights) and may I say personally, thank you for improving my survivability odds!

And one for anti-amokers:

http://www.stop-smoking-updates.com/quitsmoking/blogs/0.htm

Feel free to join one or both of these these blogs. "Fair and Balanced".

OCF position is smoking inherently unhealthy for you.

See: http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/tobacco/index.htm

I am closing this topic because it will never get any resolution and we can better use the bandwidth. It's also getting too personal.

This thread is now closed, as it is not producing anything positive anymore. Bottom line is we are all responsible for our actions be it as a driver, smoker, consumer of junk foods, and so much more. That bad choices in many areas of our lives are going to come back to bite us is not a revelation. We are getting fatter as a nation, and because of that we have coronary and other health issues mounting. This is only one of many lifestyle choices that leads to bad health. The list is long, but it is all around us.

We should be involved in tobacco awareness and cessation as oral cancer survivors and patients. But that awareness is lost on people who are already part of our family here. We need more people educating our kids before they start, (outdoortexan kind of work) a government that will finally get this poison off our streets instead of being more interested in making money from this highly profitable crop, that is the single most preventable cause of disease and death in our country and around the world we export to. If we become strong anti tobacco advocates in the public arena with our stories it does good, if we beat each other up here it does nothing. Revelation at a point in life where you cannot undo the problem you now recognize is particularly painful. I would prefer this board not become a vehicle to add to that pain.