I hope this is not taken out of context. I am sure everyone is appalled and saddened by the Virginia Tech tragedy. These were our future leaders, doctors, scientists, teachers etc. All were so young and bright. All had promising futures. Who knows what contributions to mankind were lost? I cried on 911 a few times. I shed a tear every time I read this forum, some happy, some sad. I get choked up when they show these kids pictures and give insight into who they were and their aspirations. I even feel for the culprit

Thank you for that post about Virginia Tech. My kids both know kids at VT. I work with a woman whose daughter attends VT, all of them are fine but what a nightmare. I don't think your post was inapproprate, but it is not up to me to decide. Those stats on oral cancer deaths are so, so sad....early detection is right under our noses, but,there are so many being diagnosed in the late stages, oh my...it makes me really sad. I know in my particular case, I practically begged for help with the sore on my tongue that would not go away. My prior dentist said they had never had a patient with oc before, I was only 44 and did not smoke, etc, etc....still, no excuse. In his defense, he sent me for a biopsy which came back negative for oc, finally a month and 1/2 later I was sent to my oral surgeon, who took one look at it and knew exactly what it was, Sorry to ramble...Carol

I think the VT Poetry Prof summed it up very well. He basically said " No one who is the recipient of tragedy seeks that end, or deserves that end, but tragedy is part of the human condition and hopefully, those stricken can find a way to prevail". That is applicable to all of us at one point or another in our lifetime. Amy in the OZarks

That is beautifully said Amy (both the quote and your words about it). I've been a full time college professor for over 12 years now (and if you count the teaching I did as grad student, over 18 years total), and this really hit close to home for me. I don't teach at a Virginia Tech, I don't usually teach the best and the brightest--at least those aren't mainly the students I see because I teach at a community college. Still, it doesn't matter how much drive and talent has shown itself at a young age, the loss of a life that young is just tragic.

It is all so tragic , and scary cus when I was growin up i dont remember all this nonsense. really dont . I am not sure what this world is coming to but I feel for our children and now will be our childrens children. AMy you always have the best way of putting things.

The Va. Tech trajedy is very close to home for us. My older kids have tons of friends there and 4 of my cheerleaders were accepted to that school for the fall. They have all been at my house this week discussing their choices. Tomorrow is "Virginia Tech" day for our area, we spent all day and evening making up Tshirts and ribbons. There are over 1200 students from Hampton Roads at VT and some of the victims were from here. There were hour long lines of people at the stores trying to buy a VT Hokie flag to fly for tomorrow. The mood everywhere we go is very somber. It's almost to much for the mind to process, isn't it?

Condolences to you all. I believe this tragedy has shocked the world. Young lives so full of promise. Who knows - one of them may have found the key to preventing cancer. Thinking of you down under, Helen

I too have wondered how many of the people on these boards have been affected by the terrible tradgedy which has been the main topic of news in the uk this week.I wasnt sure if it was appropriate to mention it here but as you have started it i will take this opportunity to send my sincere condolences to everyone in the usa and in particular people in this forum who have been touched by this madness.
liz inthe uk

The cause of death on each one of the deceased's certificates should be listed as 'failure to shoot back'. Had at least ONE of the victims or bystanders been armed, there may have been a very different outcome. But this was a 'gun free zone' wasn't it? Didn't work too well, did it?

Riley,

You nailed that one!

Bill D.

Yes, it was a gun free zone, as it should be. It's a college campus, full of hormones and immature minds, and a place where guns should NOT be.............as evidenced by what happened.

Houston, We Have A Problem!
Ok guys. This is a touchy subject. Let's keep it to grieving please. Thank You!

There are many young people on college campuses and in high school who are extremely disturbed but go unrecognized and/or un-aided. The signs are there in their compositions, in their handwriting, in their behavior and in their anger. When teachers do report it, nothing much is done except maybe a "talk" with the principal, suspension, move to another "special" school. When they get to college, with a whole new set of stresses, it gets worse. Often, when disturbing behavior is reported, the teacher is not supported because of a reluctance to offend the parents and lose university contributions. When someone is ill physically, we pay attention to their physical health. But there is a definite lack when it comes to paying attention to a child's or young person's emotional/mental health. I hope that this tragedy can get attention to where it belongs before it gets to the gun-toting stage.

This is a multidimensional problem here that starts with people who are 5150'd (which is typically a police report) and people who perpetrate domestic violence (also subject to a police report) are restricted from purchasing handguns according to DOJ. Those questions are on the DROS form that must be filled out for the background check. The loophole is that currently there is no provision to report this to the DOJ which would have prevented him from access to handguns. Currently only felonies are reported to DOJ.

Stories have come to light that he was picked on and bullied as a child and high school student. Society really needs to take a long hard look at our civility towards others and it should be mandatory curriculum and monitored closely. Ihe students who tormented him have to bear some responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

But it always seems that it's the counselors who are first jobs they cut.

Hopefully because of the mismanagement of this student by VT, better procedures will be put in place to better protect students at all schools. Most state laws already ban firearms from school campuses - so they should all be gun free zones. But this is not about gun control as much as rage gone to delusion and psychosis. He could have just as easily driven his Toyota down the quad mowing people down.

Even though we continually advance in our intelligence and technology, we fail to improve our civility towards others.

Good post Gary. I agree that the students who bullied him when he was younger, and possibly those who made fun of him at VT, should be looking hard at their role in this. Civility is indeed somehting we don't emphasize enough in school curriculum.

Just some facts about guns and violence and why arming students is NOT the solution!

1. Experiments show that just the prsence of a gun in the room makes people behave more aggressively. Guns prime aggressive thoughts. Agressive thoughts are more likely to lead to aggressive actions.

2. Alcohol makes people more agressive. And, depsite everything everybody does to prevent it, alcohol abuse is common in college.

3. Young males of college age are statistically the most likely to behave agressively against someone else.

4. Research shows that gun owners who have not been trained to use their guns in a combat situation are unlikely to be able to successfully wound a gunman, but misfire to such a great degree that they have some good chance of hitting someone else in a chaotic situation.

I am not overall anti-gun. I have no problem with responsible gun ownership for the purposess of hunting (but I don't think we need semi-automatics for that). I just think there need to be a lot more safety checks about who can buy one and we should NOT be talking about arming students because of this. That would only lead to more senseless student deaths.

I also have some pretty strong opinions about how hindsight is 20-20 here in terms of looking for someone to blame. We as cancer survisvors should know that sometimes senseless tragic things happen and there's not really anyone to blame.

OK. I'm done. I also think about this every time I go into work. Almost all our classrooms are on a high second floor--not realy a place where jumping out windows would work if a gunman came in. To say nothing of the fact that the windows don't open! Statistically, I'd guess this sort of thing would have more of a chance of happening at a community college since we are the college of second chances and seem to have way more students on psychiatric meds than the 4 year school where I used to teach (I know this because I teach psychology and in intro. psych when we get to teaching about neurotransmitters and medications I often have classes where students ask me about their medications!)

Nelie

Ok, your twisting my arm.(UNCLE) All points are well taken. And yes, let's leave the 2nd amendment alone. Here are two phrases I like to quote upon."When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". and "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". But I believe what Gary says to be correct. I too believe society has taken a turn for the worst. Especially with the violent lyrics of "that damn devil music" of today and the vidio games, and movies. I can't remember the last time I read G-rated on anything. When I was a kid we had fist fights to settle disagreements and usually became friends after a bloody nose. A knife attack was all it took to make people cringe. When I was 10 years old our nation was stunned by the Texas Tower Massacre at the University of Texas. The culprit, Charles whitman, born in my home town but certainly no hero, left a "last request" note to donate his insurance money to a Mental Health Foundation anonymously. I think our civility is definitely where we need to start. And I thought cancer was hard....

We've heard how this unfortunate young man was picked on and bullied but it was also reported in his writings that he mentioned pedophelia. Any child who is abused or molested sexually is likely to have very long term effects and this is something that is extremely difficult for the child to come to terms with, even with counseling and often leading to severe depression, relationship and behavior problems and suicide. True, it's difficult to blame any one person or organization, but we all bear responsibility towards each other and I hope we can find a way to help and teach our children how to protect themselves from this ever happening again. My daughter (police lieutenant in Knoxville) suggests that if the students had been able to rush this guy, even if he got a shot or two off, they would not have been fatal and he could have been subdued. I taught at community college and more recently at university level and it's true that most windows don't open and most classrooms have only one door. When I taught at the community college, I always kept my cellphone and pepper spray with me. We really need to educate ourselves at every level to make things better and safer for our schools.

Petey,

Just to add a bit to your first quote, ". . .only outlaws and the government will have guns".

As for blame, it seems this day and age the masses have to find someone to blame for a tragedy such as this other than the perp. Good example is all of the litigation against tobacco companies. In my case, no one made me start smoking around 1964 but me even though I was bombarded by tobacco advertising in those days. It was also ME who decided and chose to continue smoking until I was diagnosed with base of tongue cancer a year ago. Maybe it's because I'm now 60 years old and from a different generation but I have no one to blame for my cancer but me. I also think that I have a better chance of learning a lesson from it all since I'm the only one to blame.

Bill D.

Bill, you do make a good point. We can try to find why the perp did what he did, but he is still responsible for his actions. It's like suing the bar for serving the drunk who caused an accident. I had a student who missed a final exam because he got drunk went to jail for two days and he insisted it was the fault of the police who put him in jail so he couldn't make it to the exam. :rolleyes: Whether it's our actions or our health, we have a responsibility to do what needs to be done to make things come out right.

The thread is very interesting but wandering away from the oral cancer topic. Closing it down.