I Am suffering this weekend with ulcers and sore mouth. Has anyone got any good tips? I have been rinsing with salt water and have used cordysyl mouthwash but am worried as it has alcohol in it. I have docs on tuesday but hought I'd see if you guys had any thing that really worked for you.
Thanks
Jayne x

Earlier someone posted about the benefits of Manuka Honey and I am usually very sceptical about such things, but decided to try it. I was and continue to be very impressed. Give it a try. It should say UMF 16+ to have the maximum effect.

Let me know what you think if you try it.

Hugs

Donna

Was glad to see this post! Just yesterday I bought an 8.8 oz jar of Organic Manuka Honey ($28) at the health foods store. The jar says 15+ so I hope that's good enough. I got it to apply topically to a tiny blemish on the side of my nose which my dermitologist biopsied some time ago and found to be ok. My daughter also has a similar area on her nose, biopsied w/same results. The honey I bought is mainly to be taken by mouth. Seems like the blemish disappears and reappears and I am probably due for another dermitologist check up soon. I noticed the MH is also available online and they offer a variety for topical application and I've been wondering if that makes a difference other than maybe being "non-sticky". If I apply the sticky "by-mouth" kind to my nose and then go do my power walk outside, will I be too attractive to some of the local honey bees?

Im not familiar with the cordysyl mouthwash you are using. Ask your doc for something called magic mouthwash. Its a prescription formula and can be made several different ways. Mine was benedryl, malox, and lidocaine. It will numb your mouth long enough for you to eat.

As far as the Manuka Honey goes, it has not been officially trialed and proven to work. However, several members on here have used it successfully. There are several different strengths available at the health food stores. Im sure someone who has used this will help guide you.

Here is a list of easy to eat foods that might help.

http://oralcancersupport.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94621#Post94621

Hey there I used it the Manuka honey from week 3 and it definitely helped! For mouth sores - I would take a mouthful 15 minutes before radiation - let it melt - and swish for 2-3 muntes - then do it again after. - I also did it after meals - alternately I used the baking soda mix - and or club soda - flat!! You can swallow the club soda- it helps with the thoat.

Organic Manuka honey - is the best - Willmaine suggested -16-20 something strength but anything above 16 has been manipulated by man so I stuck with the 16.

It really helps but can sting when your sores are open - this only lasts a few minutes though - then they feel numb- if it's really painful take a about a mouthful of warm water mixed with the teaspoon of honey blend them and swish that. I did this the two weeks after radiation. Because of this I had very few sores - some pain - but recovery was fast. 5 weeks out I have just a few unbroken blisters - and bit of a sore throat that comes and goes - based on how dry I am. (usually worse in the morning) and what I've eaten (tomato sauce is still not my friend!!!! )

With regards to topical use - go for it. Not sure about the bees but they do use it - for skin wounds - I know it's sticky - but I would go with the actual organic honey as the topical stuff though not sticky may have other stuff in it...

There are other mouthwashes out there without alcohol. Do not use anything with alcohol without consulting your dr. I use a mouthwash called Toms of Maine - it's natural minty and baking soda based - no alcohol - but I use it just to freshen - if you want something for pain magic mouthwash is it.

Hugs. -and feel better soon.

Thanks, Cheryl - this is great information! What I have is the "Certified Organic New Zealand Manuka Honey. It does say only 15+, though but having used it just last nite on a tiny blemish on my nose, it looks all better today. I noticed the Manuka Honey is a lot cheaper online and you can help OCF as well by going thru their Amazon affiliated site:
http://www.amazon.com/?ie=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&tag=oralcancerfou-20&link_code=hom&%2Aentries%2A=0

Jayne, hope the mouth sores improve. My son also used the Magic Mouthwash and it helped. I wish he had had the Manuka Honey at the time he had the mouth sores. It's certainly seems to be worth a try.

The thing with the honey is it's natural and really can't hurt - I'm not a fan of the mouthwash - but did use it when things were really bad for about 3 days at the end!! (constancy of it is gross - and the taste not very good!! Btw I didn't mention this - you swish and swallow the honey as it will help the throat as well.

Glad it worked on the blemish!! I love that it's natural and helps - beats drugs and medications by a big margin.

Take care!!

Sorry Cheryl

As you know I am a fan of Manuka Honey but not because it is natural. I am so vehmently opposed to the concept that "natural" can't hurt that I must respond.

My enduring memory during my time as a nurse was witnessing the anguish of a mother after being told her child had died due to the administration of 1 teaspoon of Royal Jelly. She had administered the "natural" remedy to her developmentally disabled daughter because she had read somewhere that Royal Jelly is brain food.

So maybe a caution is in order. Natural is not a synonym for safe

Absolutely. I always ask the dr. Prior to anything like that. When Will suggested the manuka honey - I first looked it up to see if there were any contraindications (if it was an antioxidant in particular) that would work against the radiation, then i educated myself about it, and its properties, then I asked my dr. (RO) prior to even trying it. I'm a big proponent of healthy and natural stuff, but before we start taking things - especially herbs and naturopathic pills etc... It is best to educate yourself and then talk to your dr.
What I meant to say was in this particular case the honey is natural, you aren't ingesting it ( with regards to the use of it on a blemish ) so it's great it works topically and is natural.
but before anyone puts anytng in their mouth (that's something they don't know anything about) it's always important to check with a dr. - on the other hand this is honey... So it's something a lot of people eat regularly on toast, in cereal and so on.... So in a way its like calling the dr. And asking if it's okay to add strawberry jam to your diet. However because of my treatments I verified it first.

Take care.

my mom is getting ready to start radiation and I think Im going to go out and get this manuka honey for her. thank you for sharing, it helps to hear others stories. I hope you feel better soon Jayne x

Hi
Finished rt on Monday and I have sore mouth using bicarbonate and water and Manuka honey which eases it. I am sooo tired I seem to spend all my time in bed! I also don't feel like eating and am still being sick at times is this usual? How long before I feel like I'm going to start feeling like ME again?
Haven't got to go back to hospitsl for 6 weeks
I'm drinking plenty and eating soups can't seem to keep the ensure down.
Thanks
Jayne xx

Yes very usual - brace yourself... The two weeks following rads are the worst people think that you're done you should feel better - but rads I cumulative - so you feel the most effect at the end! Keep up with the honey. It really helps. Take any pain meds - and rest as much as possible, eat if you can to help heal and gain back your strength. I lost the bulk of my weight the two weeks following my Rads. God luck and try not to worry this is normal. Hugs and healing vibes to you.

My mom started her radiation this past tuesday, she is on day three. My sister that lives close by her got the manuka honey. My mom asked her radiolgist about using the manuka honey and they said not to because its an antioxidant. is this true? I have read on this forum that many have use it and it helps, we are not sure what to do..

Patty, its best to follow your doctors orders.

Yes - I answered this in another post but do what your dr says. I used it - and my dr. Was aware of it. He didn't say no, in fact I asked him before I started using it at week 4 and he also knew that I was being very careful about my antioxidants... From the beginning of treatment the only thing that went into my mouth was 2-3 teaspoons of honey, and ensure or boost. They tell you not to take antioxidant supplements - vitamin c ,e and selenium. The honey has none of this ( it actually says on the package vitamin
C & e quantities are insignificant) I was concerned after reading this that the boost and ensure might have a lot of these vitamins - and the do - each bottle has a quarter of the Rda - interestingly enough I looked up the antioxidant Pamphlet handed out at my hospital.. And it says keep eating normally - just dont suppliment your diet with antioxident pills - and be careful your vitamins dont push you over their daily maximum - which was listed - it also says boost and ensure are okay... Weird - but i digress...Bottom line - listen to your dr. Sorry your mom is having a tough time. Take care and hugs!!

thanks ladies, yes mom is doing the ensure and now going to start on the carnation hi calorie drink.
I appreciate all the input. it's a tough road....
hugs back!

I thought we needed some clarification. So I did a little more research. I'm not an expert but this is what I pulled together re manuka honey... This is not written to try and convince someone not to do what their dr. Says. I am an advocate of listening to your Drs. I just wanted to share what I learned when I was researching so others could make an informed decision. I will also post this in the adjunctive therapy forum so everyone else can read it. Plus I think people were concerned as to whether or not it was an antioxidant - so the info is here so you can decide for yourself.

First off when I heard about manuka it was from someone else, prior to trying

it I looked it up online. Several places are doing trials with it (hospitals) with patients to see it's affect on oral cancer patients mucousitis - results have been varied I can tell you for me it helped... But what works for one person doesn't always work for another. That said prior to taking it I asked my radiation dr. (who knew I was being careful about antioxidants etc..) He said yes. The amount I was using was very small. 2-3 teaspoons a day. Was usually all I could choke down. The honey itself is 80% sugar , 18% water, and 2% vitamins and minerals much of which is dependent on the actual honey -

But this is what I got from one web site.


Nutrition
Facts
Calories in Manuka Honey

��Serving Size:
1 tsp

Amount Per Serving

�Calories 32.5
�Total Fat 0.0�g
� Saturated Fat 0.0�g
Polyunsaturated Fat 0.0�g
Monounsaturated Fat 0.0�g
�Cholesterol 0.0�mg
Amount Per Serving
Sodium 2.0�mg
Potassium 0.0�mg
Total Carbohydrate 7.8�g
�� �Dietary Fiber 0.0�g
�Sugars 7.8�g
�Protein 0.5�g
��Vitamin A 0.0�%
��Vitamin B-12 0.0�%
��Vitamin B-6 0.0�%
��Vitamin C 0.0�%
��Vitamin D 0.0�%
��Vitamin E 0.0�%
��Calcium 0.0�%
��Copper 0.0�%
��Folate 0.0�%
��Iron 0.0�%
��Magnesium 0.0�%
��Manganese 0.0�%
��Niacin 0.0�%
��Pantothenic Acid���� 0.0�%
��Phosphorus���� 0.0�%
��Riboflavin 0.0�%
��Selenium 0.0�%
��Thiamin 0.0�%
��Zinc 0.0�%

*Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.

I checked out a few place the values were similar, and the amounts were trace amounts. My hospital hands out a pamphlet to it's patients undergoing radiation therapy below is the link - it is all about anti oxidants. So prior to taking the honey... I looked into it, I asked my dr. He okayed it. I read the pamphlet, and checked my vitamins (which I stopped taking) my daily diet was nothing to worry about because after week two it was barely here and by week three it was all boost and ensure. So besides water, and 2-3 teaspoons of honey (which i couldnt always get down and which I didn't start until week 4 because I'd never heard of it) the boost and ensure was all that went into my mouth.

There are antioxidants in normal healthy foods. We are told to maintain a healthy diet through our radiation treatment (though with head and neck cancer is very hard because our taste and mouths are affected ) the concern with antioxidants is mega supplements - according to the pamphlet put out by the hospital.
So considering, I was only taking in 3-4 bottles of boost and ensure, and a little honey - that doesn't have any of the major antioxidant vitamins in it - I was okay with this because likely if I had a meal of broccoli meat and brown rice I would surpass any antioxidant properties found in, three tablespoons of honey and more.
However I'm not an expert. If your dr. Says no, then please don't.

Here's the link to the pamphlet out out by my hospital.
Princess Margaret hospital in Toronto (part of the university health network.

http://www.uhn.ca/Patients_&_Visitor..._RT_English.pdf


Hope this clarifies.

Whaattt??

[quote]My mom asked her radiolgist about using the manuka honey and they said not to because its an antioxidant. is this true? I have read on this forum that many have use it and it helps, we are not sure what to do..
[/quote]

So is your radiologist suggesting she steer clear of fruit and vegetables too??? And cereals? And cups of tea? After all, they are also antioxidants. I dread to think what his opinion of berry juices are. I think your specialist has had a knee jerk reaction against something that sounds like a quack remedy without thinking it through.

And I do agree with Cheryl, supplements in the form of vitamin pills may not be such a good idea at this time as there is some suggestion that too much of a good thing actually WILL interfere with radiation

Karen

Oh for some reason the link isn't working... I reposted the link in a separate post in adjunctive therapy and now and it does - here it is again! Also it's teaspoons - I'm sorry I know in my head the difference but for some reason (possibly my iPads auto correct... ) I get a tablespoon occasionally where a teaspoon should be! Have a great day -

http://www.uhn.ca/Patients_&_Vi...ent_Handouts/Antioxidants_RT_English.pdf

I would be the last one to suggest not using a treatment if it is effective for you. If it works for you, use it.

However, here is a double-blind clinical study of Manuka honey and mucositis, published in May 2011, which seems to indicate Manuka honey did not improve mucositis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21636188

However, this study indicates it might be able to reduce oral pathogens within dental plaque:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21195787

Again, as I said, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade. If it works for you, great.

[quote=eli318]I would be the last one to suggest not using a treatment if it is effective for you. If it works for you, use it. [/quote]



ALWAYS check with your doctor before doing anything like self medicating or using something questionable. What may appear to be helpful could do more harm than good if the doctor is unaware of what you are doing. Im not specifically speaking about manuka honey as Ive seen several member benefit from using it. Im only saying to ask your doctor before you decide to do anything alternative even like taking vitamins. While we may be patients and caregivers who have learned many things along the road, doctors study for YEARS and treat hundreds so are much more knowledgeable. Listen to your doctors!!!!



The above studies were not done in the US. They do not meet the US's standards to be an approved or disproved treatment.

Yes I am aware of the studies... They are a mixed bag. However, I can say for certain. It helped me. Maybe not everyone responds. I dont know, but it definitely worked for me. Which is all I can attest to.

hi jayneday. good to hear rads completed and you are ok. i'm srarting my 4th week and had heard of scarey symptoms after rads. hope i don't experience the pain expressed. i still have difficculty with obturator. always aches in my mouth and i'm constantly taking it out whenever i don't have to eat or talk. do you have similar problems.

I'm not to bad now 4 weeks after rads I'm eating and taste is slowly coming back. My obturator is still uncomfortable but not painful I only take it out to clean as it hurts to put back in if left out too long. Before rads I could forget it was there but now it's harder to eat with and my mouth has changed I suppose. Got app with surgeon on 9th so I will see what he days as he wants to do some reconstruction on my nose and mouth.
Hope you atecoping it's doable you will get there
Jayne x

Thank you for your response. Very beneficial help. I'm starting 5th week of radiation and have terrible dryness of the mouth especially at nighttime. I have irrigated then suctioned out when necessary but it's no cure all. Have you any ideas for drymouth?

I'm 5 weeks out and it's slightly better Obturator still bothered just feels uncomfortable. The hole is not so sore and I just have a slight sore throat in the morning. My taste buds are back slightly but food tastes ok so am eating better. I hope you aregetting through it I know it's rough but you will get there. The ob is a pain but you get useful that too:) it's just a new way of life and learning to adjust.
Take care I'm here for ya
Jayne

I tried using a vaporizer next to my bed it helped - now I use the biotene toothpaste!