Thanks Ed, basically in line what I thinking. i read somewhere ECS can mean cancer outside the tumor, including the primary. It can be confusing. I guess several of my tumors, non lymph's, a few cm, are just called metastases caused by ECE, ECS, PNI, LVI, floating cancer or by some other route micro or macroscopically, and will never find out. Another one is extracapsular tumor growth lol. The most I see about is ECE with the lymph's, but probably used as a general term, non medically, for anything outside the lymph area.